Sinar-F in the field

[Mark Sampson]

I use a Sinar F2 at work,and not long ago I tried taking it out into the field. The only carrying choice I had was the cheap suitcase that came with the camera. That doesn't work; bulky, meant only to carry the camera one way, can't get the whole kit inside, generally an impractical pain in the butt. I was wondering, does anyone here actually use a Sinar-'field' in the field? I don't backpack great distances in the mountains, but I do like to get away from the car... and it would be interesting to find out what kind of one-pack setup you have to carry that camera and the rest of the hardware. I've used wooden field cameras for decades and have worked out a nice portable kit, too heavy of course, but I'd like to find something as practical as that for the much bulkier Sinar. Thinking ahead to another camera? Sure.

[Ed Richards]

I use an F2 in the field. I mount it on a tripod with the Sinar pan/tilt adapter, and I carry it over my shoulder. I keep the rest of the gear in Kinesis belt pouches. While I will go farther than Weston, I am in his school of photography near the car. I also live on flat ground. I use a metal tripod with spikes because it is good for dealing with gators and wild pigs.

[Peter De Smidt]

I built a wooden case which'll hold the camera suspended by the rail. I fiberglassed the outside. I strap it to a metal backpacking frame to go any distance. That said, it's very easy to take the standards off of the rail, and removing bellows is quick and easy. Why not use a regular back pack and disassemble the camera for long hikes. I bet it'd still be faster than setting up a folding wooden field camera. You can always do what Ed does when shots are close together.

[Jerry Flynn]

I sometimes use an Eddie Bauer backpack that I got at Target for about $30.00 a few years ago.

It holds the f2 camera (collapsed, but not disassembled), my meter, dark cloth and a few lenses (2 or 3). I have the lenses in lens wraps. There are a few exterior pockets that I do not use, but I suppose you could.

I use Grafmatic film holders. I can fit six holder (36 sheets) in a Red Wing film holder pouch I got from Calumet years ago. The pouch hangs from my belt.

[Joshua Dunn]

I use my Sinar F2 in the field all the time, just this morning in fact. I am getting a larger pack but for now all my lenses, light meters etc. are in the backpack. I carry the camera and tripod as I hike (never with a lens on it), sometimes with the camera on the tripod, sometimes I just carry the tripod over my shoulder and the camera in my other hand. Eventually I do want a “One Pack” system but with everything that I carry that means one big (and expensive) pack.

I have a Zone VI but with the wide variety of shooting I do (I might shoot a landscape and then an architectural interior in the same day) it’s not versatile enough for my needs. I use lenses from 38mm to 600mm, which a great deal of will not work on the Zone VI due to bellows and movement restrictions. I also use a 6x17 roll film back and my Zone VI does not have a Graflock back. Sometimes when I travel I take the Zone VI and just two lenses if I can’t take a large kit.

If I get the new pack I will post how it works out.

[Frank Petronio]

Six Grafmatics on my belt and you'd be seeing serious crackage...

There is a Sinar illustration of how you detach the bellows from the rear, lower the rear all the way and fold the rear standard forward 90 degrees flat, against the normal 10-inch rail. Then you raise the front standard all the way and fold the front backwards, with the bellows inbetween the rear standard on the bottom. This protects the ground glass and allows to leave a lens attached if you are brave. It then becomes an awkard but compact shape that you could wrap in a darkcloth or XL lens wrap (which can work as your darkcloth too!) and toss into a pack.

The other option is to move everything to a 6-inch rail and tightly compress. If you take a folding metal focusing hood from a Graflex press camera it is a perfect fit on the older Sinar backs up to the F2-P2 era -- they even have a purposeful notch for the Graflex opening tab.

And leave the rail clamp on your Sinar pan-tilt, use it like a quick release for your camera (nylon insert left on the rail.)

[Jerry Bodine]

Like Peter, I too built a rectangular case that holds any of three Sinars from 4x5 to 8x10, hung by the rail, and strapped it to one of my old Kelty external pack frames. It holds customized compartments for whatever accessories and lenses I choose for short jaunts up to a mile or so. It's not extremely compact and has spaces to stuff darkcloth, etc. It is undoubtedly a little heavier than Peter's since I made it out of thin aluminum sheet metal and angles and has a hinged/braced top lid with seal to minimize dust. All in all not too pretty but very functional. Below the case are strapped-on film holders (padded pouch with cushy shoulder strap) and aluminum Series 4 Gitzo with Sinar Pan-Tilt head ... a balanced load. Total weight is kept down by selecting only gear needed for the jaunt. I feel the 8x10 is pushing the limit of stability/rigidity of the Series 4 Gitzo for shooting straight down, but it works (with caution). The Series 5 Gitzo is reserved for working reasonably close to the truck. BTW neither Gitzo has spikes ... no gators or wild pigs in the Pacific NW.

[Frank Petronio]

If you were a Swiss alpinist you could strap the old Sinar Norma system case to your back using the leather backpack straps per the illustrations in the old Sinar product literature! But you need lederhosen.

[erie patsellis]

I use a padded cooler that was a giveaway at a boat show, camera, 2 lenses, light meter and holders fit perfectly.

[Jerry Bodine]

Frank, I have that case & straps only because it came with the 5x7, and never used it for anything other than storage. I still cringe when I see that pic in their literature of the guy hauling that thing on his back up the stairs, wearing a suit, and hand-carrying the tripod in a case ... not a very salient pic. I never had lederhosen and can no longer quite fasten my climbing knickers at age 74 'cause I can only suck it in just so long.

[Richard Wasserman]

Frank, how about one of the packs these guys are using, although they forgot the lederhosen:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/17/world/europe/17swiss.html?_r=1

[Jerry Bodine]

Frank, how about one of the packs these guys are using, although they forgot the lederhosen:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/17/world/europe/17swiss.html?_r=1

Hmmm ... that would solve the snug knickers problem, no? :o

[Mark Sampson]

Well that's not quite what I had in mind...
thanks for the responses, everyone; I have some food for thought now.

[BennehBoy]

Mark,

I'm shooting with an 8x10 P2 'in the field', I transport it dissasembled inside a very sturdy Peli 1440 rolling case. All the other stuff goes in a large padded laptop bag, filters, dark cloth, holders, loupe, meter, etc. If I'm shooting over rough ground I assemble the camera at the car and carry it on tripod. Otherwise I just trundle the case to wherever I'm shooting and assemble it there (the case makes a handy seat).

Works just fine so far for me - you'd be able to fit a few lenses in the peli with the smaller f2 4x5. I can fit a 300/5.6 in with my p2 8x10 - the rest go in the laptop bag.

[Drew Wiley]

I used a Sinar F2 for twenty years, routinely for strenuous trips and off-trail travel in
steep mountain terrain. I carried it in the top section of a Kelty Tioga backpack (back
when these were still made in the USA and not flimsy). I could leave a favorite lens in
place and compact the bellows between two Tupperware film boxes. I used a 28" bellows, but sometimes carried a bag bellows too. Then all this was stuffed inside a
goosedown jacket which provided both cushioning and wonderful insulation. It was a
very fast system to set up and shoot, and absolutely fabulous for long lenses. But eventually bursitis started tormenting me and I was coveting more room in the pack for food. The typical pack weight was around 85 lbs (including the camping supplies). So when I turned 50 I treated myself to a little folding Ebony for these kinds of trips (even though about 80% of my work is now done with 8x10).

[Jim Noel]

If you were a Swiss alpinist you could strap the old Sinar Norma system case to your back using the leather backpack straps per the illustrations in the old Sinar product literature! But you need lederhosen.

You also need a very strong back and powerful legs. I tried it once, that is one heavy, awkward load.

[Jamie123]

Frank, how about one of the packs these guys are using, although they forgot the lederhosen:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/17/world/europe/17swiss.html?_r=1

Lederhosen are German, not Swiss. Might explain the nudity.

[Richard Wasserman]

Ah, I see! Thank you...



Lederhosen are German, not Swiss. Might explain the nudity.

[Steve M Hostetter]

mount your rail to a tripod and sling it over your shoulder,,, it won't weigh less in a bag

[David E. Rose]

Maybe you wouldn't want to have two cameras, but a Sinar Norma compresses into a smaller package for transportation and would use the same lensboards, bellows and other accessories as the F series. I think it weighs about the same as well. They are going for $400-500 on Ebay these days.

[Anthony Lewis]

I have a F2, but find it far two bulky to go even a few kilometres from your car. Sinar is not a backpacking camera - no matter what they say, particularly if you are hiking overnight.

I bought myself a Toho FC45 which is a monorail backpacking camera.I have five lenses in Toho mounts. I had SK Grimes make up a Toho to Sinar lens board so I can use these lenses, and others, with my Sinar P2 and F2 cameras.

[Ed Richards]

If you mount your lenses on Technika boards, you can move them between cameras pretty easily. While I use an F2 in the field, I am mostly shooting architecture type shots, meaning I push the movements a bit. Even with that, I am thinking about a cheap folder like a Shen-ho for everything does not require full Sinar movements. You not only save on the camera size and weigh, you save a bunch on the tripod and the physical size of the kit.

[Frank Petronio]

That's true. We can argue that the Sinar F-series is compact enough for practical field work but you have to admit that a Sinar or most of the monorails feel like you need a sturdier tripod to compensate for their higher center-of-gravity. It just feels like you're going to tip over when you go too light cameras of that type.

So you end up with a heavier, larger tripod with a monorail. Maybe a Gitzo 3-series instead of the 2-series that you could get away with using with a lighter wooden flatbed camera.

To Sinar's credit, I think the F was aimed at architectural photographers who needed something lighter than their Sinar P but shared components. It never represented itself as a hobbist or backpacker's camera.

[Drew Wiley]

Have to completely disagree with you Frank, based upon years of personal experience.
Because the Sinar rail could be positioned at any point along it length, it was extremely
simple to balance. As long as the tripod was stiff, it could be exceptionally lightweight.
This was the case even when I used a 450 lens. You have to be more careful with a
heavy lens causing shutter vibration, with a #3 Compur for instance. But even then
results were acceptable unless you were planning huge enlargements. I thought the
Sinar-F system was superb. And if something wore out or broke it has always been
easy to acquire replacement parts. Plus you could interchange components with a
Sinar P studio system. I still use one for architecture sometimes. But my achilles heel
is shoulder bursitis. I can carry a backpack twice the weight of hiking companions half
my age and outdistance them, but lifting a Sinar 4X5 repetitively seems to bother my
shoulder in a way that lifting a folding wooden 8x10 even heavier does not. But I miss
the Sinar because it was must faster to operate than any folding camera.

[Drew Wiley]

Poscript to Anthony - if you think the Sinar F is not a legitmate backpacking camera,
how did I undertake literally hundreds of backpack trips with one, in remote desert
canyons, over high mountain ridges, even using ropes sometimes, for over twenty
years and thousands of miles? Once I even scaled a huge ice column below El Capitan falls and chiseled off the top with my ice axe and propped up the Sinar there for a totally unique edge-on shotof the monolith (at least as far as large-format is concerned). The camera is a tad bulky compared to little wooden folding cameras, but
the fact that the tripod mount is so small (sparing you the need for a tripod head),
the tripod itself can be lightweight (noted in my post above) and you can use lightweight long lenes due to unlimited bellows extension (verus heavy telephotos)
means that it is a very practical system for travel!

[Anthony Lewis]

Drew,

I'm sure you are right. I have an F2 and found it cumbersome to fit in a backpack. Then there is the all the other photographic gear to go with it, lenses, dark slides, filters , film, and so on. Then if one is going overnight, I would need to take a tent, sleeping bag, food and clothes. I just found all this a bit difficult in one backpack - that's me.

But it can be done and I truely applaud you for doing it. I think the Sinar is one of the greatest cameras to have because of their versatility. With a Sinar you can shoot any subject you like, longest lens to the shortest lens, macro, any movements and so on.

You also make a very good point about being able to use light non telephoto lenses with a Sinar because of the bellows extension - again saving weight.

However for overnight work I bought the Toho, (maybe I like monorails) which is incredibly small and light for backpacking, and can take up to the long Fuji 450mm C lens. I have five lenses in Toho mount with one adapter so I can mount them on the Sinar. This system works great for me.

Maybe my wording was a little harsh on the Sinar for backpacking.

[Blapto]

Frank, I have that case & straps only because it came with the 5x7, and never used it for anything other than storage. I still cringe when I see that pic in their literature of the guy hauling that thing on his back up the stairs, wearing a suit, and hand-carrying the tripod in a case ... not a very salient pic. I never had lederhosen and can no longer quite fasten my climbing knickers at age 74 'cause I can only suck it in just so long.

I don't suppose you could scan this in? It sounds fantastic. The Sinar literature that is, not you in climbing knickers.

To contribute and justify reviving this thread, I walked about 2 miles on Friday with the F2 in a duffel bag, padded with towels. Not a problem. I'll fit something up to allow me to put it in a proper pack and I expect I'll be able to use it for 10-15 mile day trips without a problem. It might be a little much for a week long hike, but I still think it will be OK.

The method that I think I'll take will be to build/adapt padded compartments into the pack, much as I do when I go hiking now with my RZ67 or 35mm/digital setups. I suspect I'll end up with two. One large pack that would work for a day's rough terrain or a few days hiking and one smaller "location" pack that would be just for carting everything down to the studio, or for the last mile from the car.

[Frank Petronio]

Check this out: HALFBREED SINAR/GLENNVIEW CAMERA on http://www.glennview.com/sinar.htm

[Steve M Hostetter]

I use a P rear standard and an F front standard with a 6" and 12" rail attached to sinar pan tilt head on a graphite pod. I've walked many miles on rough terrain with no problems. I did break a strap on the XL f64. backpack , still broke but I manage
I tried using a custom made box but it just added unwanted weight
good luck

[Jerry Bodine]

I don't suppose you could scan this in? It sounds fantastic. The Sinar literature that is, not you in climbing knickers.

Sorry, I left this thread for a while and just stumbled upon it again. Here's the crummy quality scan of the Sinar literature, using my wife's d*****l and my very limited abilities with it.

[Blapto]

That's fantastic!

Thank you.