How important is large format to your sales?

[Julian Boulter]

Hi All.

Aside from the technical and quality issues just wondering if others market their work with an empahsis on that it was created using large format or not?

This question came to mind after I attended a mini art fair last week. This was the first time I had tried to sell any of my work, and contrary to what I expected I did very well. I sold several mounted and one framed print with a lot of favourable comments on the quality of the work.

However nobody seemed very interested that it was created using film and large format, I think most people assumed it was good digital work and when I talked to them about the process they just glazed over and didnt seem interested. I guess it makes no odds, if they like the work fantastic, just that I expected the fact that it was large format to add a dimension to the sales.

So just wondering what do others do? do you push the large format thing or just not bother mentioning it?

Thanks

Julian

http://www.photohome.uku.co.uk/

[vinny]

Nope. People could care less. What they do comment on is the sharpness, color, and tonality. I think that's what often makes prints stand out. There's a subconscious thing about the look. It kind of goes along with the debate over the type of print media used too. The vast majority of consumers just don't care. I think BRIEFLY explaining that you use film is important to some as educating the public will help the cause. I've never had anyone ask if I used a digicam though.

[Merg Ross]

Your experience does not surprise me. Of the prints that I have sold over the years, be they to individuals or institutions, I can not recall anyone being overly concerned with process. This seems to be more a topic of interest to other photographers.

You have some fine work to show, and an easy site to navigate. Hope your upcoming exhibit is a grand success!

[nathanm]

I have tried to push the LF angle, or any other marketing angle for that matter; anything to con people into finding interest in my images. It hasn't worked. I am considering offering a free toaster with every purchase. The idea with pushing the LF attribute is to appear like you can do things they can't or wouldn't be interested in doing. That's the whole weak link with photography, the layman looking at your photographs also takes photographs themselves. Nevermind the aesthetics or technical details, they also take photographs. This is much more rarely the case with painting or other from-scratch art forms. But ultimately all that matters is what the thing looks like.

[Kirk Gittings]

People don't know to ask and oftentimes have no idea what the term LF camera even means. If its important to you explaining your work, try working it into discussions at exhibits by bringing the camera along or put up a bio with an image of you with the camera. That way it doesn't come off as some sales pitch but comes up naturally. I guarantee some people will find it interesting if only the photographers that show up.

[QT Luong]

I noticed in the galleries of Fatali and Rodney Lough a nice 8x10 was on display on a tripod.

As for myself, it does happen that some customers (both print and licenses) require LF, but they are fairly rare.

[vinny]

oh no, the F word!

[Greg Miller]

I agree with Kirk. The vast majority of people attending an art fair have zero awareness that LF even exists, much less why they should care that you used it.

The people at these shows only care about if they are moved by your work or not. Having several pieces of compelling work on display is vital to convince them that you are a legitimate skilled photographer (not just some guy who got lucky once or twice) and therefore worthy of plunking down some hard earned cash in order to take one of your photos home.

Having a LF camera on site with a LF slide or negative to hold might help get them more interested.

[Gordon Moat]

I mention that I sometimes use ancient lenses, but beyond that I don't say anything about gear. In commercial photography, the images mean much more than how they were created, or what gear was used.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

[Andrew O'Neill]

My mom cares. She tells are her guests that that print over there above the fireplace was made with a large format camera and then begins to explain. Ah me mum...me greatest fan.
I think you would have more effect on a customer is you say that the work was created traditionally...using film.

[Bruce Watson]

Very important indeed. Without LF, I don't have any photographs to sell. My 5x4 camera is the only one I own.

[eric black]

I also got the same glazed over looks when I tried to explain what I do so Ive pretty much quit on that- when I do show my work there is always at least one big print on the wall, maybe a 40x50 inch piece of work that gets the idea across of what it is that Im trying to do with the format- make big prints with so much detail that you feel like you could dive into them.

[Archphoto]

I got one customer left that wants to pay for 4x5 inch, the rest wants D.
Terrible but true. The largest they want for prints is 8x10 inch.......

Peter Morisson
Architectural Photographer

[Toyon]

Hi All.

Aside from the technical and quality issues just wondering if others market their work with an empahsis on that it was created using large format or not?

This question came to mind after I attended a mini art fair last week. This was the first time I had tried to sell any of my work, and contrary to what I expected I did very well. I sold several mounted and one framed print with a lot of favourable comments on the quality of the work.

However nobody seemed very interested that it was created using film and large format, I think most people assumed it was good digital work and when I talked to them about the process they just glazed over and didnt seem interested. I guess it makes no odds, if they like the work fantastic, just that I expected the fact that it was large format to add a dimension to the sales.

So just wondering what do others do? do you push the large format thing or just not bother mentioning it?

Thanks

Julian

http://www.photohome.uku.co.uk/

Congratulations!!

What kind of information was provided with each print? Type of camera used? Print medium?

What were your direct costs compared to selling prices?

[Glenn Thoreson]

I think to the average guy on the street these days, it doesn't matter what you did, and most don't seem to know what you're talking about anyway. I think if someone is interested, they would ask. You might set up a nice small display that explains what you do and how you do it. Maybe include a few snapshots of yourself with a "big camera". Now, if it was an art gallery, people might be more interested in the details. Those kind of folks buy art as an investment and usually want to know exactly what they're getting. For Joe Lunchbox, it's probably just a pretty picture to hang on the wall. Hope you can sell more. Good luck! :D

[Gene McCluney]

4x5 is vitally important to me as a commercial phtographer. Fortunately I work directly for manufacturers in-house graphic design departments who realize the long-term benefits of a 4x5 transparency on each project. If I were to have to give up 4x5, I might as well go out of business.

[John Voss]

In the last days of the Edward Carter Gallery in NYC, he had positioned a Toyo field camera on a tripod in the gallery entrance. At the time I visited there it never failed to get folk's attention who would then ask the gallery representatives about the connection of the camera to what was on exhibit. I thought that was a good idea, and used it at a show I was in some years later. In conversing with a curious attendee, I showed her the upside down backward image which I then teasingly began to "rectify" by turning the rotating back upside down. Well....she bought into that so utterly that I was embarrassed to have to quickly explain that I was kidding and the image wasn't going to change. So much for trying to foist the equipment on an uninitiated guest. I'll never do that again! (though I might try to convince someone that I used a really high end cell phone....yeah!....that's the ticket!...)

[Wallace_Billingham]

from my experience the only people that really care about the type of film/camera you use are other photogs and most of them won't buy anyway

[Kuzano]

Sell the work... not the process. Describing how you achieve your art is TMI for most consumers. Simply "Too Much Information". Why boggle people to the point of having to make a technical decision instead of an emotional decision. Baffle them with too much bull and they cease to be in the market.

40 years of Marketing. It all boils down to "Don't give the prospective buyer any more information than it takes to make the sale". Always test for the close, don't oversell.

Let me add one more comment here. I truly believe the only reason most of us shoot large format is for ourselves, not for clients. I seriously doubt that the majority of clients have the same quality standards that we require of ourselves.

[Drew Bedo]

I find that , for the most part, the only peple who are impredded by my large format work are Pro photographers working digitally. Large Format is my chosen medium due to really bad vision. I have gotten a few nice images with digi-cams...but they were pretty much hapenstance or serendipity...the painter's happy accident".

Outside of that, buyers don't seem to understand. I have alwayse felt that an image should stand alone; no contextual explaination should be required to fully appreciate any image.

[ViewCameraNut]

It's the photographer, not the camera. Having said that, my sales have been 99% digital. The biggest sale I made was from a P&S digital camera (Canon G10). So for myself large format is not too important to my sales.

Http://www.pbase.com/jakeyferret/f32

[Julian Boulter]

Guys

Thanks for all the responses to my question, the responses echo the conclusion that I was coming to in that I should let the pictures do the talking and not to necassarily push the LF thing unless asked.

I did actually take my camera along to show people on the night but the interest just wasn't there.

Julian

[Mike Putnam]

To address Julian's intial question, the large format angle is moderately to hugely influential in terms of my fine art print sales and has zero influence on stock sales( I haven't gotten around to pitching Audubon, Sierra Club, etc yet). If a prospective buyer is interested enough to inquire about my camera format, I find that busting out the 4x5 that I use for all my print shots is very helpful in closing a print sale. I've never had an advertising agency inquire about format, only if my files are big enough to cover certain dimensions at 300 DPI in their magazine. The ad guys couldn't care less, but my fine art print collectors do seem to care. Perhaps the bottom line is if you are only going to shoot stock, use digital and if you want to sell prints, Large format can be helpful in terms of perception and very helpful in terms of image quality.
Cheers,
Mike
Pacific Crest Photography (http://www.pacificcreststock.com/blog/)

[toyotadesigner]

Overall (I guess) the customer wants to buy the product / image in front of his nose (exhibitions). He doesn't care about the process that lead to the product. In his head there is an idea where it might fit into his home or office, what kind of frame he's going to order to match the other images. It's like in fine art: people don't care about the brushes the artist used, sometimes they ask 'oil or acrylic'. End of the show.

However, for my job LF or better saying 1/2 LF (6x9) and the view camera really does matter. Architecture or interiors without the movements of a view camera plus the required high resolution would be impossible - PhotoSoup is an ugly helper in this arena.

In addition: why should a client hire my services if I would show up with just the same digital gear he already has in a drawer of his office desk? A friend of mine nailed it down to the point:

As a professional photographer your gear **must** be better, more versatile and really professional than the stuff your customer works with.

Today several customers know the buzzword 'megapixel'. They are used to 12, 14, 24 MP. But when I mention 130 MP or more they start to listen. Of course I always have my folder with me (only small, razorsharp prints at 13"x19" or A3 B size). That does the trick. If they still want to discuss the price based on the tiny digital cam photographers price lists I send them to a friend of mine who uses a digital cam.

Those with good eyes and a certain knowledge or specific requirements know and see the difference. The others are definitely not my target market and I don't want to waste my time with long explanations for nothing.

But I'm not in the business to sell prints, art work or stock photography... I sell my knowledge, experience and a custom tailored service and craftsmanship, so my experience might be different :D

[Kirk Gittings]

In addition: why should a client hire my services if I would show up with just the same digital gear he already has in a drawer of his office desk? A friend of mine nailed it down to the point:

As a professional photographer your gear **must** be better, more versatile and really professional than the stuff your customer works with.

When I was only shooting 4x5 for architecture, some of my best architect clients owned "better" view cameras than I did and to top that had taken university classes from me. So they knew how to use them (many times over the years, I had students with better cameras than mine, but that isn't the point isn't it?). I used an ancient and cheap Calumet Widefield (and a Tachihara before that) for all my commercial work for many many years and made no apologies for it. They weren't hiring a camera, but my 30 years of experience mastering the camera, the lighting, my vision and lastly my knowledge of design competitions and the magazine business to help them win awards and get published. It is no different now. I have one client that just bought a Nikon D3X and another with a Hassleblad Flexbody/39MP back. I use a 5DII. I have 5 large shoots scheduled with these two clients this year. It ain't about the camera. Never was and never will be-unless your clients are idiots.

[Drew Wiley]

I'll tell you one instance where large format made a real difference. I was undergoing an IRS audit and they were questioning me about travel to Hawaii or something - don't
recall exactly. But I had the forethought to bring along an 8x10 transparency from
aforesaid trip. No more questions.

[toyotadesigner]

It ain't about the camera. Never was and never will be-unless your clients are idiots.

OK, agreed, America and Far East is totally different in this regard. In Europe everybody believes he is a great photographer if he sports a 'modern' camera (whatever this really means).

[mandoman7]

I think its a universal truth that, in all crafts, there is work that speaks to the lay viewer and then there's work that's directed at peers. You can find a lot of analogies. I play a 1921 Gibson mandolin frequently at gigs in my area. If you were a musician you would find it pretty interesting, but by and large, people are more impressed when they hear something they like than they are by seeing a fancy instrument.

I would go even further to suggest that its a weakness in the work of some photographers The reliance on the production methods to carry the artistic statement. Viewed from that alternative perspective, it seems more understandable that Mr. avg viewer wouldn't necessarily jump on board. Technique and method are things that should be supportive of a vision, not something to hide the absence thereof. Sometimes viewers have that discussion going on in their mind... technically nice, but boring, they might be thinking.

The work needs to speak for itself.

JY

[Kirk Gittings]

I am a sign display company, large format priting is very important for customers who want to promote their products and company.

This is a Large Format PHOTOGRAPHY forum, meaning using largeformat film (4x5" and up) in view cameras etc. Many of us also use largeformat printers, but that is not the topic of discussion.