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Cristiano Abreu
31-Jan-2009, 13:07
Hi,
After some thinking by trial and error, I've managed to pack a Sinar F2 8x10 w/ MB (folded and sideways), 2 holders, 1 multi-purpose front standard and 2 4x5'' bellows, additional 45 cm rail, and the all bunch of stuff like filters, air blower, etc..., with just enough space for a Sinaron S 360/6.8 lens inside a TENBA car case CCV45 I was using for a F2 4x5. It's kind of heavy (17 kg - 37 lb), but manageable.
This solution works fine for close to the car shooting (I'm even getting a trolley to expand a little, when tracks would not be too bumpy).
But, what I would like to know is if there's a backpack carrying solution, when some trekking is called for?
I sure understand that the F2 8x10 is not particularly light and smaller like a folding 8x10 field camera, but the "F" is supposed to mean "Field", i.e. considering monorail's size and weight constraints for field work of course.
Thanks,
Cristiano

David A. Goldfarb
31-Jan-2009, 13:14
There are a few different ways to fold the camera. The most secure way for a long hike with a backpack would be to compress the bellows on a short 6-inch rail or without a rail, so the camera is more like a compact sturdy brick. Leave the rail clamp attached to the tripod so it doesn't take up space in the case, and so that it can work as a quick release.

It sound like you've figured out the way to carry it in a briefcase style case, with the bellows unclipped from one side and the two standards turned 90-degrees so it's one flat package.

A third method, which works well with a shoulder bag, is to unclip the bellows from one side, fold one standard down toward the rail, use rise to raise the other standard and fold it down over the first standard. With the levels and detentes on the camera, it's then very easy to set it up for shooting, very much like a wooden flatbed camera.

Gem Singer
31-Jan-2009, 15:19
Seems like a lot of bulk and weight to carry into the field just to make four images (two holders).

Cristiano Abreu
31-Jan-2009, 16:41
There are a few different ways to fold the camera. The most secure way for a long hike with a backpack would be to compress the bellows on a short 6-inch rail or without a rail, so the camera is more like a compact sturdy brick. Leave the rail clamp attached to the tripod so it doesn't take up space in the case, and so that it can work as a quick release.

It sound like you've figured out the way to carry it in a briefcase style case, with the bellows unclipped from one side and the two standards turned 90-degrees so it's one flat package.

A third method, which works well with a shoulder bag, is to unclip the bellows from one side, fold one standard down toward the rail, use rise to raise the other standard and fold it down over the first standard. With the levels and detentes on the camera, it's then very easy to set it up for shooting, very much like a wooden flatbed camera.

Hi David,
I'm using the third method, since the CCV45 is not deep enough or sufficiently large to use the other 2 methods. And like you said, the 3rd one gives me a fast setup.

Cristiano Abreu
31-Jan-2009, 17:08
Seems like a lot of bulk and weight to carry into the field just to make four images (two holders).

Hi Gem,
Yea I know its kind of bulky, but I already had a F2 4x5 and got myself a couple of weeks ago a not so expensive 8x10 conversion kit over eBay. I simply can't afford for the mean time an 8x10 Canham or Deardorff, and Ebonys are simply too stratospheric. Arcas are off my budget either... and unfortunately we simply don't have the same deals in Europe like you do your side of the pound.
As for carrying only 2 holders, that's what I have for now (like we say here in Portugal "o dinheiro não dá para tudo", i.e. something like: we can't buy everything at once). I'll get me some more latter.
Moreover, I usually do 3 to 4 exposure per day, using a 4x5. So I should shoot less with 8x10, since the cost is higher and will ponder the subject even more carefully. And we don't have the big outdoors, amazing national parks that you find over there. That said I'm just looking for a solution pertaining to a couple of miles walk, not for a few days trekking.

Gem Singer
31-Jan-2009, 18:01
I pack my 8x10 Canham Traditional, six or eight film holders, and accessories into a rolling cart. Strap a heavy aluminum tripod on top. That enables me to walk a mile, or so, from the car.

I don't use the 8X10 very often these days. Much prefer using my 5X7 camera, scanning the B&W negatives, and making 11X14 inkjet prints. It's quicker, easier, and much easier on my legs and back.

My advice: Figure out a method to put wheels under it.

Jim Michael
31-Jan-2009, 19:40
Maybe something like I do for my Horseman monorail might work for your Sinar. I take the standards off the monorail and place them in a nylon case (a Kelty case for 12 soft drink cans, happens to be a perfect fit) with a piece of ensolite pad separating them. That rides in a Kelty backpack with the rest of the gear also in cases or pouches. Total weight inc. 2 lenses and 6 film holders is under 20 lb. (ca. 9 kg).

Cristiano Abreu
31-Jan-2009, 20:32
My advice: Figure out a method to put wheels under it.

Yes I concur, its a great advice and perfect to carry the rigid TENBA case some distance from the car, going easy on the backs, but only when the terrain permits. For that purpose, I should be getting a trolley pretty soon.
My unsolved issue arise when I would need to walk for a couple of miles in mountain terrain, where a trolley/cart can't do the job. I like to think I'm still young enough and physically prepared to carry the load on a backpack for 1/2-1 h or so, going really easy.

Cristiano Abreu
31-Jan-2009, 20:59
Maybe something like I do for my Horseman monorail might work for your Sinar. I take the standards off the monorail and place them in a nylon case (a Kelty case for 12 soft drink cans, happens to be a perfect fit) with a piece of ensolite pad separating them. That rides in a Kelty backpack with the rest of the gear also in cases or pouches. Total weight inc. 2 lenses and 6 film holders is under 20 lb. (ca. 9 kg).

Thanks Jim, I'm starting to feel that's indeed the only way, i.e. take the camera apart and use a big backpack.

Ben Syverson
1-Feb-2009, 11:15
You should give Peter Gowland a call. :) I can fit my Gowland Lite 8x10 in a messenger bag, along with two film holders and a tripod. The whole outfit weighs about the same as when my laptop is in there, about 4kg.

Cristiano Abreu
1-Feb-2009, 13:19
You should give Peter Gowland a call. :) I can fit my Gowland Lite 8x10 in a messenger bag, along with two film holders and a tripod. The whole outfit weighs about the same as when my laptop is in there, about 4kg.

Hi Ben,
... 4 kg !!! :o definitely a path I would have to pursue in a not so distant future I hope. My wife is not going to like it (I keep saying it's the last camera I'm going to buy and we are going to buy that new furniture...), but a lighter 8x10 field camera is on the call sooner or later. For now, I must manage with what I have which is great for architectural or small walks.

Steve M Hostetter
1-Feb-2009, 19:07
Carry the sinar on a tripod with the darkcloth as the shoulder padding.. Use a backpack of your choise to carry the film holders,lenses,meter,notepad,pen,veiwcard,brightscreen,etc. the sinar f2 is as light as any 8x10 i've had experiance with...

nice shooting

Cristiano Abreu
1-Feb-2009, 20:05
Carry the sinar on a tripod with the darkcloth as the shoulder padding..
nice shooting

Hi Steve,
thanks for the advice. I'll try it next time to see if it suits me; I've done it with a 4x5 for short distances, but never with a 8x10.
My only concern is that if it won't be applying too much stress, on the long term, to the pan-tilt head I'm using (Manfrotto 808RC4), but I guess since many seem to go that route, it should be OK.

Frank Petronio
1-Feb-2009, 20:10
Get the Sinar pan-tilt head and you'll never have a problem. Be careful of course but I've carried a lot of heavy 8x10s that way.

Ligth versus heavy is always a compromise. If you don't need to backpack it, the heavy camera and tripod will be more stable and give you sharper photos.

Peter De Smidt
1-Feb-2009, 20:20
I agree with Frank. The Sinar cameras do work best with the Sinar pan-tilt head.

Cristiano Abreu
2-Feb-2009, 03:19
Hi Frank and Peter,
I'll be low on cash for a while, considering the recent investment on the 8x10 kit, holders and other stuff that come with the larger size, but will keep an eye for the Sinar pan-tilt on eBay.
As a side note: I had seen it before, although they rarely appear on Europe and when they do, prices ramp up. Therefore, they should be highly regarded like you said.

David A. Goldfarb
2-Feb-2009, 04:57
You should give Peter Gowland a call. :) I can fit my Gowland Lite 8x10 in a messenger bag, along with two film holders and a tripod. The whole outfit weighs about the same as when my laptop is in there, about 4kg.

4 kg is pretty minimalist. Is there a darkcloth in there, or are you using your jacket or some such? When I'm going light with my 8x10 Gowland (not the super light version, but still a very light camera in comparison to other 8x10's), I can get it down to around 8 kg with tripod, but I carry more filmholders (5 Mido holders plus the clamshell lately).

Steve M Hostetter
2-Feb-2009, 07:04
The Sinar pt head can be had for around $220.00 on fleabay which will also be much lighter then most heads..
Another way to lighten the load is to get a carbon fiber tripod when you can.. Don't get one with a center post!

Bjorn Nilsson
2-Feb-2009, 11:46
Hi Frank and Peter,
I'll be low on cash for a while, considering the recent investment on the 8x10 kit, holders and other stuff that come with the larger size, but will keep an eye for the Sinar pan-tilt on eBay.
As a side note: I had seen it before, although they rarely appear on Europe and when they do, prices ramp up. Therefore, they should be highly regarded like you said.

I found me a "Sinar Neiger" on the german *bay. They are normally quite expensive, but this one looks like it has been through a war or two. Also it's from the Norma days, given the green-grey paint. So it was mine for around 80€. Even though it have been used a lot, it's as stable as a new one. These things don't wear out.
By the way, even though they are a perfect match for a Sinar, they are very good with any view camera where you want to control every movement separately.

Also, I use it on top of a feisol 3371 with a leveling base. All of it works very well together.

//Björn

Cristiano Abreu
2-Feb-2009, 19:28
The Sinar pt head can be had for around $220.00 on fleabay which will also be much lighter then most heads..
Another way to lighten the load is to get a carbon fiber tripod when you can.. Don't get one with a center post!

Hi Steve,
No problem on that side, I'm using a Gitzo GT3540XLS without center post :)

Cristiano Abreu
2-Feb-2009, 19:33
I found me a "Sinar Neiger" on the german *bay. They are normally quite expensive, but this one looks like it has been through a war or two. Also it's from the Norma days, given the green-grey paint. So it was mine for around 80€. Even though it have been used a lot, it's as stable as a new one. These things don't wear out.
By the way, even though they are a perfect match for a Sinar, they are very good with any view camera where you want to control every movement separately.

Also, I use it on top of a feisol 3371 with a leveling base. All of it works very well together.

//Björn

Hi Bjorn,
thanks for the input on Sinar durability and great price by the way. For such amount I would be a happy camper also, because 200+ Euros for a Sinar pan/tilt is too much for now.