Are scanners developed anymore?

[AutumnJazz]

There seem to have been no new highish-end scanners since about, 2005. It seems hard enough for people to find software that runs on modern computers, let alone modern scanners. Is the market dead? Will we start seeing new scanners again in the future?

:(

[Peter De Smidt]

It's a very small market, mainly big institutions, like big libraries and museums, especially since pre-press houses don't use them much anymore. They probably bought capable machines fairly early on. Since there hasn't been much progress with these machines, as long as they are running, why buy more? As far as I know, Kodak is the only one still producing these scanners.

[bglick]

It is a sad reality of photography.... not enough film is shot to justify NEW scanner R&D to further the technology and produce new products.

Speaking to a Screen rep least year.....he mentioned they sold about 300 Cezzanes per year, till about 2001....then, sales fell off a cliff.... since 03, they sell maybe 5 per year. So IMO, the only makers that will continue to sell and support new scanners are the ones in which all the R&D was covered long ago.

As mentioned, Kodak still sells and supports a line of high end flat beds, (which they acquired from CREO). Screen still makes the Cezanne Elite and one drum scanner, Aztek in USA still has the old Howtek line, as well as one flat bed, and ICG with offices in the UK and USA sells and supports the best drum scanner made.

The likelihood of a new prof. scanner is near zilch IMO..... the best we can hope for is, the scanning backs improve, their cost keeps falling and someone decides to modify one, with some added software and lighting system, to work as a film scanner.... at least for LF film. But even scanning back sales are way down, as one-shot backs keep gaining more resolution....

[AutumnJazz]

What about mid-high-end stuff like the V7x0 from Epson? Nothing more in that price range?

[Lachlan 717]

What about mid-high-end stuff like the V7x0 from Epson? Nothing more in that price range?

There are still faint mumblings of a new Epson (V900?)... Going blue in the face by holding my breath, though.

[Stefan Lungu]

Since I am looking for a new scanner that ca do 4x5 to replace my Canon 8600F, I asked myself the same question. In the flatbed division the Epson 700/750 is considered by many the top of the line, but those were released some time ago and I heared nothing new about a scanner that would better those and can scan large film ( 4x5-8x10 ). Wondering if those will surface sometime or we will be hooked with those that are in production now and in ten years we will not be able to scan our negatives.

[Nathan Potter]

As scanners gradually disappear copying negatives and chromes can be done using a digital camera equipped with a closeup lens and a backlighted setup. Scanning backs with high Mpix count could be used for high quality work. In 10 years I would expect that 100 Mpix capture might be in the realm for the average photographer and that would be in the range of average resolution found on 4X5 color films.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Bruce Watson]

There seem to have been no new highish-end scanners since about, 2005.

For drum scanners I make that mid-1990s. All R&D stopped about the time of the big digital capture wave, because the vast majority of pre-press houses were lost, so there were no customers for $50k+ new drum scanners. Not only did R&D end, so did nearly all manufacturing. For a while we were down to just two manufacturers (Aztek and Screen). Then a couple of years ago ICG was resurrected from the rubble, so there are three again. From what I can tell, yearly sales from any of these three are in the single digits. They are making all their money in parts and service.

Flat bed scanners were a different story. R&D there didn't suddenly end, it more tapered off. There is little R&D going on right now. I doubt there has been any R&D in sensors for these beasts since the mid 2000s. Screen, Aztek, Kodak all still make professional flatbeds. I don't know as much about this market -- there are probably other current manufacturers. But I wouldn't expect to see much of anything in the way of new products.

Consumer level scanners (film scanners and flatbeds) have similarly tailed off. I wouldn't be surprised if we've seen the last new scanners, especially film scanners. There may be a few flatbeds in the pipeline; I don't know.


It seems hard enough for people to find software that runs on modern computers, let alone modern scanners. Is the market dead?

The market is, for all intents and purposes, very dead indeed. Anyone who wants one has one. If they don't, the used market if floating in the things. There's little to no incentive for a manufacturer.


Will we start seeing new scanners again in the future?

Very low probability IMHO.

[sanking]

I don't know the sales figures for the so called prosummer type flatbeds like th V750 but from my perspective there appears to continue to be quite a bit of interest in them. Many people are still using film but want to print digitally, plus most photographers over the age of 35-40 have large film archives. This two things should keep a small market for medium price flatbeds so it would not surprise me to see two or three more generations of Epson prosummer quality flatbeds over the next decade.

Sandy King




Consumer level scanners (film scanners and flatbeds) have similarly tailed off. I wouldn't be surprised if we've seen the last new scanners, especially film scanners. There may be a few flatbeds in the pipeline; I don't know.

[Dave Wooten]

I need a good scanner, are there some "best buys" out there?

[sanking]

What do you want to scan, Dave?

Sandy



I need a good scanner, are there some "best buys" out there?

[Frank Petronio]

Every graphic designer is still going to need a flatbed to scan reflective flat art, and adding a transparency module is a value-added "professional" feature. Since governments and institutions would never buy anything used, there will always be a market for scanners. But since the main customers may be Obam-- err institutional -- expect to pay 2-3x more than a consumer.

[Walter Foscari]

If they were more decently priced the Imacons would be a good alternative.

Walter

[Eric James]

As scanners gradually disappear copying negatives and chromes can be done using a digital camera equipped with a closeup lens and a backlighted setup....


I agree Nathan. Recently I was surprised to learn just how well my Canon G10 could "scan" transparencies on a light table. I used a tripod of course and a Cabin light table for backlighting. This setup provided very nice documentation of my work; something that is nice to have tucked away if you send your precious exposures away to a scanning service.

[Lenny Eiger]

I need a good scanner, are there some "best buys" out there?

This guy - greg.welch5@verizon.net - just posted a sale of an Aztek DPL 8000 (1/23/09) for 4K on the Scan High End list. That is a huge bargain if its in good shape... it apparently includes drums and mounting station.

Caveat: I don't know this fellow, never met him, I know nothing about this piece of equipment. This is a referral of something I found in another list and not a recommendation of the particular machine. You have to do the research to find out whether its real, etc. You can ask Aztek if they know him, if the machine has been serviced - they are usually very helpful with this kind of info.

If the machine is in good order, this scanner is very hard to beat.

You can contact me off line if you want some more info...

Lenny

[sanking]

With the caveats Lenny has mentioned I agree that for the price this is would be a great scanner. If I had not already lost so much income from the collapse of the market I would be all over this. Even as is I am tempted.

Sandy King




This guy - greg.welch5@verizon.net - just posted a sale of an Aztek DPL 8000 (1/23/09) for 4K on the Scan High End list. That is a huge bargain if its in good shape... it apparently includes drums and mounting station.

Caveat: I don't know this fellow, never met him, I know nothing about this piece of equipment. This is a referral of something I found in another list and not a recommendation of the particular machine. You have to do the research to find out whether its real, etc. You can ask Aztek if they know him, if the machine has been serviced - they are usually very helpful with this kind of info.

If the machine is in good order, this scanner is very hard to beat.

You can contact me off line if you want some more info...

Lenny

[mdd99]

I have critical stuff scanned by a professional house. Prices are so reasonable these days that it wouldn't pay for me to have my own high-end scanner.

[uniB]

That's not exactly true, I'm a graphic designer, I own a V750 but since I got a drum scanner for my film work the V750 hasn't been used for anything and it'll end up on Ebay as soon as I can get round to listing it. I don't need a flatbed scanner, if I have reflect flat art to digitise I use my Sony a900 to photograph it, no flatbed scanner required!


Every graphic designer is still going to need a flatbed to scan reflective flat art, and adding a transparency module is a value-added "professional" feature. Since governments and institutions would never buy anything used, there will always be a market for scanners. But since the main customers may be Obam-- err institutional -- expect to pay 2-3x more than a consumer.

[AutumnJazz]

Can anyone recommend a lab that does good quality Imacon and/or drum work for a reasonable price?

[Bruce Watson]

Can anyone recommend a lab that does good quality Imacon and/or drum work for a reasonable price?

I like to think that I do good work (http://www.largeformatpro.com/) for a fair price. Please let me know if I can help you.

[Matus Kalisky]

Well, it seems like it is time to get a new Creo iQSmart2 or something to be on the safe side. I just can not find my wifes credit card :D :(

As some others I can get quite good Imacon X5 scans of my 4x5 film for a VERY reasonable parts (raw scans - no retouching), so I am not getting a scanner any soon. But should I have no other option the Epson V750 or Microtek F1 would be the only realistic possibilities and I would have to live with their limitations. As long as I can shoot film, I will.

[Karl Hudson]

High End Scanners are pretty much out of development since 5 or 6 years now. Consider the legacy of the late Dr. Rudolf Hell. When his scanner product line reached the end of a very long R&D span (which began with the invention of the fax machine, the Hellfax, and ended with the vertical drum scanner, the Heidelberg Primescan) it was a sad day and one I'll never forget. I still keep working and spare parts machines in stock, both the flatbed (Nexscan) and the drum variety...why?... because I've learned there are numerous photographers out there who still appreciate and need this level of quality.

Since leaving my position at Heidelberg in 2003, I have sold about two scanners a year (so yeah, this is NOT how I make my living). Each and every one of these sales was always to a photographer... and the installation was in their private home in most cases. The reason I still bother with them at all is because I grew up working on the Hell scanners. I became a Hell technician at age 22 installing CP341s and DC350s all over the USA and Caribbean. I loved these machines and the quality they produced. I never lost that admiration for them. So if any of you ever needs help with these German tanks, rest assured I will still support any scanner that was manufactured in Kiel until I kick the bucket myself. If you need help with one you've found or you need help finding one, drop me a line here.

[Deane Johnson]

What would be the ramifications of building a light table and photographing the negative with a quality SLR in lieu of a flatbed negative scanner such at the V750?

[Joanna Carter]

What would be the ramifications of building a light table and photographing the negative with a quality SLR in lieu of a flatbed negative scanner such at the V750?
Think about it.

12 megapixel camera = 12,000,000 (approx)

25 megapixel camera = 25,000,000 (approx)

4"x5" film scanned at 1200dpi :
Pixels created - (4 x 1200) x (5 x 1200) = 28,800,000

4"x5" film scanned at 2400dpi :
Pixels created - (4 x 2400) x (5 x 2400) = 115,200,000

So, it would appear that a 25Mp camera could get close to a relatively low-res scan; however,it would take one heck of a camera to equal the full-res scan.

[Nathan Potter]

Joanna, you're absolutely right. The digital camera is useful for rough scans only. I do 6 MP copies only. But if one was serious about higher resolution then do, say, 4 scans of a 4X5 using a 22 MP DSLR and stich using Photoshop. Multiple exposure is more work and would need a good rectilinear setup with closeup capability but some version of it could be a future path to scanning at higher quality.:) :)

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Deane Johnson]

Think about it.

12 megapixel camera = 12,000,000 (approx)

25 megapixel camera = 25,000,000 (approx)

4"x5" film scanned at 1200dpi :
Pixels created - (4 x 1200) x (5 x 1200) = 28,800,000

4"x5" film scanned at 2400dpi :
Pixels created - (4 x 2400) x (5 x 2400) = 115,200,000

So, it would appear that a 25Mp camera could get close to a relatively low-res scan; however,it would take one heck of a camera to equal the full-res scan.
Thanks. Sort of shoots that idea down.

[Stefan Lungu]

Thanks. Sort of shoots that idea down.
Well, not quite. The calculation above states that you get your 4x5 with one frame on the digital camera. If you would be able to make a copy stand and a 1:1 macro lens, you would get about 20 frames - and stitch them since it is a perfectly controllable environment. That would give you a lot of pixels, but the process would be very time consuming and you have to have a good lens. But even with 1:2 or 1:3 ratios, you could still get something great this way, only that it is more complicated than put the film into the scammer and let i do the dirty work.