View Full Version : Epson 4490-700-750 Which one?
Jim Graves
26-Jan-2009, 18:35
I've read every thread I can find on this ... Epson vs. Epson ... Microtek, Nikon etc. vs. Epson ... but haven't found what I need to know: I'm an average new LF shooter (4x5 up to 8x10) and would like to have a capable scanner for negatives. In the 4x5 to 8x10 range ... is there a large enough difference between the Epson 4990 ($198), 700 ($415), and 750 ($600) to warrant the extra $$ for the newer scanners. The largest prints I do are 16x20.
sanking
26-Jan-2009, 18:41
In my opinion, not. There is a marginal improvement between the 4990 and the 700/750, but for scanning 4X5 to 8X10 negatives and prints up to 16X20 size I would recommend saving your money and going with the 4990. At $200 the 4990 is very good value for your needs.
Sandy King
I've read every thread I can find on this ... Epson vs. Epson ... Microtek, Nikon etc. vs. Epson ... but haven't found what I need to know: I'm an average new LF shooter (4x5 up to 8x10) and would like to have a capable scanner for negatives. In the 4x5 to 8x10 range ... is there a large enough difference between the Epson 4990 ($198), 700 ($415), and 750 ($600) to warrant the extra $$ for the newer scanners. The largest prints I do are 16x20.
Jim Graves
26-Jan-2009, 19:54
Sandy ... thanks ... and enjoyed your article on Carbon Printing in the recent View Camera.
where is the 4990 you found ? the ones I have watched on the auction site, get to close in price to a refurbed v700. not to metnion how badly they might ship or the real condition.
you typed 4490, which is not the same, so is that a typo?
sanking
26-Jan-2009, 21:31
Hi Jim,
Glad you enjoyed the article on carbon printing. Carbon is a lovely and highly unique process. I have an upcoming exhibition of carbon transfer work, and a workshop on carbon printing, scheduled in May in Jalapa, Mexico as part of a symposium on alternative printing. I understand that some very influential Mexican photographers will attend the symposium and hope to do another article on the event for publication somewhere.
BTW, I assumed you were asking about the Eposn 4990 compared to V700 and V750, but on second reading I see that you mentioned a 4490. My comments were directed to the 4990 as I don't have any knowledge of the 4490.
Best,
Sandy
Sandy ... thanks ... and enjoyed your article on Carbon Printing in the recent View Camera.
The 4490 only has a transparency path up to medium format film. It does not do 4X5 or 8X10 negatives/transparencies. It also has a lesser Dmax rating than the 4990, 700, or 750.
Epsons large format transparency/negative scanners are:
4490-discontinued....available only as NOS if you find someone who hasn't sold all their inventory. Available from Epson only as refurbs when available
V700 currently sold new, some refurbs starting to be available from epson occasionally. Some slight improvements over the 4990. Can't tell you exactly what.
V750... I think the most significant plus is a dual scan head technology, implying dual focus.
4990's were very adequate for your needs as you state them here. However, the options are usually used, or refurbished.
Jim Graves
26-Jan-2009, 22:29
Sorry for the mis-type ... I did mean the 4990 as in the body of the message ... not the 4490 in the title.
Epson's last new price on it before being discontinued was $415 but the lowest street price was around $370. I recently (within the last couple of months) saw a refurbished one for $198 ... that's where I got that price. Don't know if they can still be found at some retailers or not.
Jim Graves
26-Jan-2009, 22:31
V750... I think the most significant plus is a dual scan head technology, implying dual focus.
I think the V700 has the dual scan head as well.
I think the V700 has the dual scan head as well.
Indeed. The only difference is an optically coated glass on the 750 to minimize reflection.
venchka
27-Jan-2009, 08:10
I got an Epson Expression 1680 Pro with transparency attachment, FireWire ports, holders, software, etc. yesterday.
Prior to this, I was using a friend's Epson 4990. I had time to make a few scans last night. The 1680 holds it's own with the 4990. The 1680 holders accept more film (4 sheets of 4x5 and 3 strips of 3 6x6) than the 4990. It also batch scans 4 4x5 sheets. In fact, it's scanning for me right now & I'm at work.
Long winded way to say, "Be on the lookout for an Epson 1680 with all the film accessories."
Keith S. Walklet
27-Jan-2009, 08:53
I have both the 4870 and V750. While there is a marked improvement in quality with the V750, the 4870 produces surprising quality scans. I've made many a 24x30" print with it from 4x5 transparencies, and that was before I wet-mounted the transparencies rather than using their film holders.
With the stock EPSON holders, Newton rings were a problem with the 4870. Wet-mounting with that scanner solved the Newton ring problem, and the overall quality of the scans improved dramatically.
I only upgraded from the 4870 to the V750 because I had accidentally scratched the platen of the 4870. I was so happy with the results I was getting with the 4870, I might never had upgraded. That, in spite of the fact that there was a memory buffer limitation that made it impossible for me to scan a 4x5 in a single pass at the maximum optical resolution of that scanner (4800spi), a problem that was solved with the 4990.
That said, now that I have the V750, I can see the difference on-screen in quality that the high-magnification lens used for the 700 and 750 makes, plus it is much faster, has a larger memory buffer, etc. So even if at the print level the differences are incrementally small, I know that the newer scanner is giving me the best results.
The Epson scanners do wonderful work, so you really have a wealth of riches to choose from depending on how much you decide to spend.
Brian_A
27-Jan-2009, 09:06
Indeed. The only difference is an optically coated glass on the 750 to minimize reflection.
Hardware-wise, yes this is true. The software it comes with (Monaco EZColor & LaserSoft SilverFast Ai along with an Ektachrome IT8 target and Kodak reflective target) is far better than the standard Epson Scan that the 700 comes with. I've been able to create very accurate paper profiles with the supplied software along with better scans than I'd get with Epson Scan. Granted the 700 comes with SilverFast SE6, I find the Ai version with MultiScan & MultiExposure much more useful. Just my thoughts.
Hardware-wise, yes this is true. The software it comes with (Monaco EZColor & LaserSoft SilverFast Ai along with an Ektachrome IT8 target and Kodak reflective target) is far better than the standard Epson Scan that the 700 comes with. I've been able to create very accurate paper profiles with the supplied software along with better scans than I'd get with Epson Scan. Granted the 700 comes with SilverFast SE6, I find the Ai version with MultiScan & MultiExposure much more useful. Just my thoughts.
I'm finding Vuescan works very well. I have the consumer version but I will upgrade to pro for the calibration, profiling and RAW features. I like it's cross platform operation, I only go to windose to print now. ;)
If you are wet mounting with the v700 does the optically coated glass on the 750 really give you that much more of a better scan? Thanks, Robert
Ken Lee
27-Jan-2009, 18:26
On my Epson 4990, I am able to get a better scan with the Epson drivers, than with Vue Scan.
While I love VueScan - and depended on it when using a Microtek scanner - I am not surprised that an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) would do a better job than an aftermarket provider.
Brian_A
27-Jan-2009, 18:35
If you are wet mounting with the v700 does the optically coated glass on the 750 really give you that much more of a better scan? Thanks, Robert
Can't say that I've used the 700 myself. Sorry. I would assume that it would. (We all know where assumptions can get us though...) That and the fact the 700 doesn't come with a wetmount system. You'd have to purchase something from Doug Fisher at BetterScanning.com to do it.
jim kitchen
27-Jan-2009, 18:46
I agree with Ken, that the original Epson scanning software happens to be better than other available configurations, so I learned how to use it properly, although I drum scan my select negatives. The Epson 700 series can create larger digital files from a 4X5 negative and, or an 8X10 negative, compared to the 4990. The 4990 is a great scanner, but I wanted the larger files, so I purchased the 750... :)
jim k
sanking
27-Jan-2009, 18:50
The Epson driver is far more reliable than SilverFast with the Epson 4990 with my system (24" Intel iMax, System 10.4.11. Typically I can get one or two good scans with Silverfast, then something corrupts and everything goes way dark. The Epson software seems a lot more clunky, but it works every time.
Sandy King
On my Epson 4990, I am able to get a better scan with the Epson drivers, than with Vue Scan.
While I love VueScan - and depended on it when using a Microtek scanner - I am not surprised that an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) would do a better job than an aftermarket provider.
walter23
27-Jan-2009, 19:23
I really like my 750, but it has one pretty huge disadvantage - it cost me a fortune! Somewhere around $1000 canadian. Second most expensive bit of photo equipment I own.
I'm not too impressed with silverfast - maybe I don't know how to use it properly, but I find it easier to get nicer results with the basic epson scan software - go figure.
Most of the time I can do a pretty nice job scanning but as you probably know the biggest problem comes when you've got excess negative density (or shadows in slide film)... then it can be really hard to get enough detail. I don't know that the V750 is that much better than the others in that respect, but if it is better (as I guess epson advertises, though I haven't seen any testing to prove it) it'd probably be worth the extra money... (I guess the other argument you could make would be that it's hard to do with any scanner that isn't a drum scanner, so why spend the extra when the 4990 is almost as good?)
I probably would have bought the v700 but the v750 was available in a local store so I just bought it instead of messing with shipping one. Never used the wet mount system - might try it out if I ever get serious about a digital workflow. I have made some pretty nice digital prints - even from 35mm slides.
It does a good job and if I'm careful with exposure (no seriously overexposed negs with lots of high density areas) I'm very happy with it.
jim kitchen
27-Jan-2009, 20:18
Dear Walter,
You reviewed a few of my pieces at the gallery last Spring before you migrated to Victoria, and the pieces you reviewed happened to be a few of my wet mount 8X10 scans from the Epson 750. The balance of the gallery images were drummed scanned. So, when I use the Epson 750, all I do is wet mount the larger negative emulsion side down on the scanner's glass, and use Epson's scanner software.
Incidentally, how is your Doctoral thesis progressing?
jim k
Keith S. Walklet
27-Jan-2009, 22:18
I don't use the Epson wet-mount tray. I am wet-mounting a piece of 3/16" plex directly to the surface of the V750 with a squirt of Kami, another squirt on top of that, transparency, squirt, mylar, diffuse mylar. After some testing, I found that with my scanner, the 3/16" plex best approximates the distance at which the high resolution lens is focused above the scanner bed.
The Epsonscan software has improved with the V750. Still clunky as Sandy noted, but it does a good job. The Monaco software bundled with it works well, so that can be figured into the equation. But to get the higher-resolution lens to kick in, I have to choose "Film (With film holder)" under document type in the Epsonscan interface.
For all my scans, I push the black point to 0 and set the white point just above the brightest highlight, and I set the gamma to 2.0. The resulting scan is high-key, with a histogram pushed off to the right when I open it up in Photoshop. This seems to do a better job of capturing the densest data. I got the idea from the "Expose Right" approach to digital capture, reasoning that there are more levels describing the highlights than the shadows, and it is better to throw away data (moving the dark point to the right to force brighter values darker), rather than trying to open up dense shadows, which seems to do nothing but generate unwanted noise.
Brian_A
27-Jan-2009, 23:56
Typically I can get one or two good scans with Silverfast, then something corrupts and everything goes way dark.
Never have run into that issue. Have you posted to their forums or tried to contact their support to solve the problem? Just curious. Personally, I find I have a lot more control with SilverFast. Epson Scan isn't horrible, but I'd rather use SilverFast any day of the week. I guess to each their own.
-Brian
jvuokko
28-Jan-2009, 01:11
Is there any comparisons between 4990 and v700 + v750 in the sense of darker tones of the color slides?
I have currently old 3200 which is somewhat usable when scanning slides, for negative scanning it is good enough.
Have compared it to v700 and the quality of shadows is remarkable. I guess that Dmax of v700 is really somewhere near 3.5 while I have measured Dmax 2.9 for 3200 (according to the specs, it should be 3.4).
Here is my Q&D comparison: http://jukkavuokko.com/public/epson3200vsV700/
The cheap price of 4990 got me thinking whether it could be good upgrade instead of v700?
Steve Wadlington
28-Jan-2009, 02:04
I have tested my 4990 with a Stouffer 3.0D transmission step tablet. It can get the full range although there is a roll off above 2.8, still able to produce linear with a correction curve.
jvuokko
28-Jan-2009, 02:19
Here is correction curve for my 3200 with stouffer...
According the curve, density response goes flat around 2.8 which I have also confirmed by measuring some color slides with densitometer.
(x-axis is real density, y-axis is density given by vuescan software).
Paul Kierstead
28-Jan-2009, 08:26
Here is my Q&D comparison: http://jukkavuokko.com/public/epson3200vsV700/
Wow, I've been struggling along with a 3200, not really convinced a v700 was a worthwhile upgrade. That changes my mind completely. Now I need to track down one of those refurbs.
Jim Graves
28-Jan-2009, 11:21
Epson's refurbished scanner listing is here ... the list changes frequently ... if the model you're looking for isn't there, check back periodically.
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/BuyEpson/ccProductCategory.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=-13268
Make sure you read the provisos near the bottom of the page on refurbished products, what media/software exclusions there may be, that tax (for CA residents) and shipping are not included, no returns except under specified conditions, etc., etc., etc.
venchka
28-Jan-2009, 11:30
The possibility of missing software gave me pause at first. However, check around the Epson site for software downloads. You can get all the drivers and Epson Scan for free. The only software that might not be included in a refurbed unit would be 3rd party titles like SilverFast.
Paul Kierstead
28-Jan-2009, 11:33
Thanks guys. I kind of despise Silverfast from past experiences and use VueScan normally anyway.
when you are checking out the refurbed epsons, you can click on the items description, and there should be an "includes" tab to click, and the software, etc will be listed.
My refurbed V700 arrived today, sitting here next to me, and it has a package of software, including the Silverfast SE.
I just hope it is a _working_ refurb :)
venchka
28-Jan-2009, 14:09
That's good news. However, the CYA Disclaimer is separate from the "What's in the Box" listing which is the same as a new unit. I'm not saying Epson won't put all the goodies in the box. I'm just saying that they cover themselves IN CASE all the goodies aren't in the box.
After reading 3 posts in a row saying that Epson Scan delivers better scans on an Epson scanner, that's good enough for me. Saved myself $360. That buys lots of film and paper and ink and pizza and beer and gas .
venchka
28-Jan-2009, 14:12
The Epson Clearance Center is currently listing refurbished V700 & V750 Pro models.
On my Epson 4990, I am able to get a better scan with the Epson drivers, than with Vue Scan.
While I love VueScan - and depended on it when using a Microtek scanner - I am not surprised that an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) would do a better job than an aftermarket provider.
Really? In what way?
I actually like the Vuescan scans better on my V700 but I have not done tests. Have you? I would be interested in them.
Ken Lee
28-Jan-2009, 16:09
To its credit, VueScan accommodates a huge range of devices. As a result, the controls are somewhat... generic.
For what I want to do, the "Histogram Adjustment Tool" is an exact match. Here (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/scanning.html) is a small article on how I use the Epson 4990 controls.
To its credit, VueScan accommodates a huge range of devices. As a result, the controls are somewhat... generic.
For what I want to do, the "Histogram Adjustment Tool" is an exact match. Here (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/scanning.html) is a small article on how I use the Epson 4990 controls.
So 'better scan" means you like the software better. I thought that was the case and thought that should be clarified for those who might read this.
Vuescan talks directly to the hardware and often will do things the manufacturer's software will not. The ability to scan to RAW and do multiple scans, sometimes even in the same pass is hard to beat.
I will be upgrading to Pro to get RAW, the ability calibrate the scanner and the ability to profile paper. Try that with Epson's software. Oh yeah it's eternally updated at that level too.
aphexafx
28-Jan-2009, 17:10
In that Flickr post the guy does not say he is using the film holder, but he is scanning 35mm film so I suspect he is using the holder. He is also saying that in Epson's software he is selecting "film area guide" which would instruct the scanner to use the lens which focuses on the top of the glass platen, which is incorrect for film in a holder.
The person is an idiot for positing such an obvious error as some kind of proof that Epson's software is faulty. He should perhaps spend some time reading how to use the software he is lambasting. I cannot roll my eyes far enough.
Anyway, I like SilverFast for my 750, but I think it needs an interface modernization. It's very "klunky".
^ In that Flickr post the guy does not say he is using the film holder, but he is scanning 35mm film so I suspect he is using the holder. He is also saying that in Epson's software he is selecting "film area guide" which would instruct the scanner to use the lens which focuses on the top of the glass platen, which is incorrect for film in a holder.
The person is an idiot for positing such an obvious error as some kind of proof that Epson's software is faulty. He should perhaps spend some time reading how to use the software he is lambasting. I cannot roll my eyes far enough.
Anyway, I like SilverFast for my 750, but I think it needs an interface modernization. It's very "klunky".
You'll see it's gone now. I read the comments.
I'm a *nix guy and Vuescan is just fine for my tastes. Epson Scan and Silverlight less so.
Ken Lee
28-Jan-2009, 19:52
So 'better scan" means you like the software better. I thought that was the case and thought that should be clarified for those who might read this.
Sorry, you are certainly right.
I misunderstood your question, and answered it in terms of ease of use.
Using my 4990, I have been able to extract a wider dynamic range, and more easily control the levels, with the Epson software, than with VueScan.
As my earlier post suggested, this appears to be more the exception rather than the rule, since in the past, I have relied on VueScan, which surpassed both the Microtek 2500F OEM and Silverfast software.
Your point about calibration is certainly well made. Many of us have appreciated VueScan Pro, and Ed's open-ended license arrangement, for years.
Sorry, you are certainly right.
I misunderstood your question, and answered it in terms of ease of use.
Using my 4990, I have been able to extract a wider dynamic range, and more easily control the levels, with the Epson software, than with VueScan.
As my earlier post suggested, this appears to be more the exception rather than the rule, since in the past, I have relied on VueScan, which surpassed both the Microtek 2500F OEM and Silverfast software.
Your point about calibration is certainly well made. Many of us have appreciated VueScan Pro, and Ed's open-ended license arrangement, for years.
You don't find the histogram adjustments in Vuescan useful? I can see they are not as fluid and I did have to find them but I have so little experience using this stuff that I can make no real judgment yet.
Thanks. I'll see what I can do with some stuff in both later tonight.
Paul Kierstead
29-Jan-2009, 13:39
Epson's refurbished scanner listing is here ... the list changes frequently ... if the model you're looking for isn't there, check back periodically.
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/BuyEpson/ccProductCategory.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=-13268
Sigh. Epson USA, who has not quite "got it" yet, won't ship to Canada and Epson Canada doesn't list it in stock (and who knows, may never). OK I sez, I got relatives (more or less) in the USA, I'll just bounce a shipment through. Nope, a Canadian can't even buy one, let alone ship it. Gotta have a US billing address for your card. We'll have to see.
venchka
29-Jan-2009, 14:05
Bummer.
Sigh. Epson USA, who has not quite "got it" yet, won't ship to Canada and Epson Canada doesn't list it in stock (and who knows, may never). OK I sez, I got relatives (more or less) in the USA, I'll just bounce a shipment through. Nope, a Canadian can't even buy one, let alone ship it. Gotta have a US billing address for your card. We'll have to see.
With the exchange rate you are not saving much at all anyway. Still $50 is $50.
Paul Kierstead
29-Jan-2009, 14:21
Well, around here a v700 goes for CAD$639. The USD$415 would come in at CAD$500, so a significant savings. Now I suppose I can get one new from B&H for USD$475 or so, coming to CAD$575, ... toss in shipping, sure not gonna save much. No sneaking it across the border with them, either....
I shoulda jumped when the US dollar was thoroughly trashed.
Well, around here a v700 goes for CAD$639. The USD$415 would come in at CAD$500, so a significant savings. Now I suppose I can get one new from B&H for USD$475 or so, coming to CAD$575, ... toss in shipping, sure not gonna save much. No sneaking it across the border with them, either....
I shoulda jumped when the US dollar was thoroughly trashed.
Wow, I got mine for $549. They are $479 at future shop right now:
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/class.asp?catid=1012&logon=&langid=EN&test%5Fcookie=1
You got a store in Ottawa.
venchka
29-Jan-2009, 15:35
Maybe the V900 scanner isn't a mirage afterall. Epson may be dropping the prices on the 700-750 twins to make room for a new model.
Brian_A
29-Jan-2009, 16:45
I'm sure you can find someone to give the money to deal with it here in the States and then send you the scanner. Just a thought.
-Brian
Actually it seems Future Shop is sold out. These guys will find stuff pretty well:
http://www.shopbot.ca/default.asp?kw=Epson+V700&position=search
Run from your location the webapp will give you a good selection. I use it for most new stuff.
Paul Kierstead
30-Jan-2009, 08:20
http://www.shopbot.ca/default.asp?kw=Epson+V700&position=search
Run from your location the webapp will give you a good selection. I use it for most new stuff.
Wow, that is really good. I though I had a good handle on web purchasing, but that trumps me well. Thank you very much.
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