Inexpensive?

[dazedgonebye]

Any idea why this camera would go cheaply? 2 hours left at $175.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nagaoka-4x5-Cherry-Wood-Large-Format-Field-View-Camera_W0QQitemZ160303024002QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFilm_Cameras?hash=item160303024002&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1234|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

[BarryS]

Until the auction is over, it's not inexpensive. Lots of auctions start at $0.99 and most of the serious bidding takes place in the last seconds of the auction. Posting the link here is probably not the best recipe for getting a good deal, so maybe think of privately PMing a couple members to get their opinions if you're unsure about a particular item. The Nagoaka has a good reputation and it looks like the buyer has honestly represented it. Good luck if you're bidding.

[dazedgonebye]

I wasn't going to bid on it. Just curious.
I'll be marking and watching a lot of auctions now.

[Brian Stein]

It'll probably go $4-500. If serious about buying stuff via the evil empire ;-) get a sniping program. jbidwatcher is good.

[Kuzano]

Still enough time for it to double, if not more. I mark auctions for viewing. Once marked I never look until the last five minutes. All the action is in the last two. Only newbys run the auction up before the end.

If I am bidding or interested, I put my top price in an automated bidding system (snipe) and set the bid for 3 seconds before the auction. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, but I NEVER pay more than my top price, because I don't watch auctions I am bidding on. I get a notice if I win... that's all I need.

The snipe system I use is www.auctionsniper.com. I have won often, and many times for less than my top bid entered in auctionsniper. That's because eBay and it's bidders don't know I'm out there. When I lose, it's usually to another sniper who entered a higher bid than my highest.

Another advantage to sniping is that I am always shopping, so if I find the item somewhere else, I can cancel the snipe without repercussions from eBay, because "I don't exist as a bidder to them"!

[dazedgonebye]

I use bidslammer.
I can set up any number of snipes for similar items in a group that I create. That way, it bids for them and stops once it wins an item from that group.
I just used that to get a cheap kit lens for my DSLR (passing it on to the kid for Christmas). I won the third lens I listed in my group for $25 less than the first lens went for.

[dazedgonebye]

Went for $290.
No front shift I noticed and I'm not sure if the back could be oriented for portrait.

Bargain, or no bargain?

[Oren Grad]

Yes, the back can be oriented for portrait.

Someone just got a very good deal on a sweet little camera. Two factors come to mind: the market is rather soft at the moment, and auctions that end on weekdays usually don't bring the best price.

[Oren Grad]

That's what a Nagaoka bellows normally looks like, and the scratches are par for the course on a Nagaoka that's been in use for a while.

The Nagaoka isn't for everybody. It's a little bit on the rickety side; it's not a camera you want if utmost rigidity is a concern or you want to use heavy lenses. But for my taste it's a delight to carry and to use - it's featherweight, and can be opened and closed in a jiffy by feel alone.

[SamWeiss]

Bellows didn't look great, lot of scratches. For a few hundred more you get a nice new Chamonix with front shifts, etc. The 45N1 is $778 new. If your not saving a lot of $, why bother with Ebay

http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/45.html

Plus $70 shipping... comes to $848. That is quite a bit more than the $290 (+ shipping) that this auction brought. IMO the buyer probably got a good deal, and of said buyer had purchased the Chamonix they would unlikely bring about better final images (unless one was in a situation where one really needed the front shift on the Chamonix.)

Sometimes... sometimes, one can get a good deal on eBay if one is patient. As pointed out above, this camera was showing some wear on the back, and the limited movements probably also turned off some buyers. And, "Nagaoka" as a brand name has no cachet.

[aduncanson]

As appropriate for any LF photographer, I guess that I am a Luddite. I do my sniping manually, entering my bids in the last couple of seconds. The strategy is the same suggested above. I decide how much I want to pay for an item. Sometimes I get something for much less than I expect (or bid) and sometimes my bid is rejected because it is lower than some previous sniper. (Almost never does a sniper get in after me.) There are never any hard feelings on my part because my bid is high enough that if somebody wants to pay more, I am glad for both him and the seller.

[Vaughn]

Sweet little camera -- shows a lot less wear and tear than my Zone VI 8x10, which will last beyond my lifetime. Vaughn

[Brian Stein]

It'll probably go $4-500.

Yep riiiight on target :rolleyes: I should go into financial advise ;)

[dazedgonebye]

If I had not been so deeply ignorant of the various makes of camera, I would have bid on that one.
As to price relative to a Chaminox...unfortunately for me, a few hundred dollars more is the money I'll need to buy an inexpensive lens, because I won't be buying anything top of the line. Maybe not even middle of the line.
For my purposes, "Nagoaka" sounds wonderful if it equals cheaper and still capable.

I'm really going back and forth over the whole crown graphic thing. I have no doubt I will wish I had a more capable camera (no tilts even?) but I'm not sure what else I'll be able to easily swing.
On the other hand, perhaps the best thing is for me to keep selling old unused stuff and build my war chest while I continue to learn what I'm getting in to.

[venchka]

A friend and I met because we both used Graphics. Mine a Speed, his a Crown. We didn't know any better. We were happy.

Then I went and did something silly: bought a Zone VI field camera and Nikkor 180mm lens. Wes called it "a real camera." A month later he bought a Shen Hao. Said he needed "a real camera too".

Are we happier now? Probably. Do we make better photographs? Maybe. Not too sure. It's still early.

What's your point Wayne? A nice field camera is a pleasure to use. The Shen Hao does things the Zone VI doesn't do. The Zone VI does things the Shen Hao doesn't do. Both are more capable than either of us. The Shen Hao cost less.

Build your war chest. Don't over buy. Any lens will do at first. Slow and steady.

[Toyon]

It'll probably go $4-500. If serious about buying stuff via the evil empire ;-) get a sniping program. jbidwatcher is good.

Sniping is morally hazardous.

[dazedgonebye]

Sniping is morally hazardous.

I'm a lost soul already...might as well get some good deals before the fires.

[venchka]

I found ebay. I abused myself on ebay. I quit ebay.

I've paid less buying from individuals and I've paid more buying from individuals. On balance, I reckon I'm ahead. No worries buying from people who actually know and use the euipment they are selling.

Classic case in point: "When you turn the lens the front moves in and out so the zoom is working ok." A description for a 1950s vintage Canon rangefinder lens.

[Brian Ellis]

I use esnipe on the few occasions when I bid on ebay. My bids go in 3 seconds before the end of the auction. The commission esnipe takes is very small. I wouldn't bid on ebay without a sniping service. Watching an auction is a pain and useless when you don't know what other people are bidding until after the auction ends. Not sure why there would be anything immoral about it.

[Vaughn]

I'm really going back and forth over the whole crown graphic thing. I have no doubt I will wish I had a more capable camera (no tilts even?) but I'm not sure what else I'll be able to easily swing.
On the other hand, perhaps the best thing is for me to keep selling old unused stuff and build my war chest while I continue to learn what I'm getting in to.

Crown Graphics do have front tilt (both directions if one uses the drop bed), but that is it. Fun cameras and a good way to see if one is interested in 4x5. (also good for travel, rough conditions and hand-held LF). If one already knows that one is going to dive head first into 4x5, then unless one comes across a great deal on a Crown (like free or <$150 w/ lens), then I feel one might as well dive with with a camera with more capabilities.

If one starts with a used 150mm lens, then one can get started without too much cash...have fun!

Vaughn

[dazedgonebye]

I started the large format drive because I wanted to shoot pinholes. That's kind of grown in to "As long as...."
I think I need to back down to my lower expectations for now. A crown with a "normal" lens will do.

[Vaughn]

Then a Crown (or perhaps even a Speed Graphic...heavier, but with a focal plane shutter that might come in handy with pinhole photography) sounds perfect! If you found a Crown with a lens with working shutter but trashed glass, you could remove the glass and turn it into a shuttered pinhole lens (and a lot of shutters will work on "B" even if the times are all off.)

Even with the drop bed, you might have some trouble with very short effective focal length pinholes, but otherwise it would make a great pinhole camera! Even comes in its own box, too!

Vaughn

[venchka]

Then a Crown (or perhaps even a Speed Graphic...heavier, but with a focal plane shutter that might come in handy with pinhole photography) sounds perfect! If you found a Crown with a lens with working shutter but trashed glass, you could remove the glass and turn it into a shuttered pinhole lens (and a lot of shutters will work on "B" even if the times are all off.)

Even with the drop bed, you might have some trouble with very short effective focal length pinholes, but otherwise it would make a great pinhole camera! Even comes in its own box, too!

Vaughn

Vaughn has been reading my mind. Exactly the plan that I have for my Speed Graphic. In addition to providing a perfect platform for my old barrel lens.

[aduncanson]

"As long as...."


Now that is hazardous. Long ago I spied a $99 electronic keyboard being demonstrated outside of a music store in a shopping mall. Thinking that way, I ended up with a Steinway.

Re the Nagoka: I have frequently cautioned here that older wooden cameras often do not have a Graflok a back, limiting your options for using roll film.

[dazedgonebye]

I'm conflicted over the idea of a speed. I don't really need the shutter for pinhole work. f250 and up seldom requires a shutter faster than a lens cap. Might be nice though.
On the downside, I can see myself picking up all sorts of crap lenses because I can try them out. I've got a problem that way.

[Vaughn]

I'm conflicted over the idea of a speed. I don't really need the shutter for pinhole work. f250 and up seldom requires a shutter faster than a lens cap. Might be nice though.
On the downside, I can see myself picking up all sorts of crap lenses because I can try them out. I've got a problem that way.

For pinhole, it would just make it convienent to have a shutter to avoid using some sort of lens cap. One advantage of a working Speed Graphic focal plane shutter, would be that you could play with cheaper barrel lenses (cheaper because they lack shutters, but still good to excellent image-catchers.)

Vaughn

PS...for a pinhole with 400ASA film, a f250 pinhole used in daylight might require an exposure of less than a second. Using the "sunny-16" rule, using f128 would be 1/8 second. YMMD...(but the actual exposure probably depends of the pinhole-to-film distance, also.)

[dazedgonebye]

For pinhole, it would just make it convienent to have a shutter to avoid using some sort of lens cap. One advantage of a working Speed Graphic focal plane shutter, would be that you could play with cheaper barrel lenses (cheaper because they lack shutters, but still good to excellent image-catchers.)

Vaughn

PS...for a pinhole with 400ASA film, a f250 pinhole used in daylight might require an exposure of less than a second. Using the "sunny-16" rule, using f128 would be 1/8 second. YMMD...(but the actual exposure probably depends of the pinhole-to-film distance, also.)

I tend to shoot 50 and 125 iso in my medium format pinhole work. I realize I could go for faster film and not pay much of a penalty, considering the negative size, but I like getting the most out of it, and often want the long exposure for effect.

Here is a pinhole set on my flicker. The newer images at the bottom are best.http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevemphoto/sets/72157600862049764/