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gevalia
18-Nov-2008, 07:02
Guys,

Does anyone know "from personal experience" which inexpensive roll film backs will work on a Chamonix 4x5?

Ron

Jeff Bannow
18-Nov-2008, 08:40
I use the DaYi back and it works fine. I think I paid ~$250 shipped for it.

It has masks for 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x9 & 6x12. Note that you will have to remove the ground glass between shots in order to attach the roll back.

vinny
18-Nov-2008, 08:47
Sometimes, around here, it feels as though the Chamonix cameras are a totally new type of equipment that has nothing to do with the last 100 years of photography. It's got a graflock type back and It'll accept anything like any other camera with that kind of back. Sorry there's just so many "what kind of quick release, what kind of tripod, what kind of lens board, what kind of lens for my chamonix" threads since these cameras surfaced.

gevalia
18-Nov-2008, 09:52
Sometimes, around here, it feels as though the Chamonix cameras are a totally new type of equipment that has nothing to do with the last 100 years of photography. It's got a graflock type back and It'll accept anything like any other camera with that kind of back. Sorry there's just so many "what kind of quick release, what kind of tripod, what kind of lens board, what kind of lens for my chamonix" threads since these cameras surfaced.

Thanks Vinny. But I did NOT ask because Chamonix is so new, I asked because I am very new to LF (maybe 6 months) and have no local people to ask questions of. I thought to myself, "hey, why not post a question on the forum". So, Vinny, you let me know if this is not the place for someone new to ask questions, okay?

Aender Brepsom
18-Nov-2008, 09:54
As Vinny said, all Graflock compatible backs work fine with the Chamonix 4x5. I only had a Chamonix for about 4-5 weeks, but in that time, I have used a Horseman 6x9 RFH on it without any problem.

DJGainer
18-Nov-2008, 10:00
Thanks Vinny. But I did NOT ask because Chamonix is so new, I asked because I am very new to LF (maybe 6 months) and have no local people to ask questions of. I thought to myself, "hey, why not post a question on the forum". So, Vinny, you let me know if this is not the place for someone new to ask questions, okay?

I think Vinny was trying to say that the specs for the camera are readily available and that a quick search would disclose what accessories work with it.

Kuzano
18-Nov-2008, 10:30
I am absolutely delighted to help the newby's. In this day of potentially disappearing film we need to invite and help new people to the format.

Apparently many cannot remember what it was like to flounder around, searching for answers to a thousand questions we had when we started. And, of course many of us started before the information was so quickly available via the internet and these forums. Making allowances for the fact that I had to dig and dig for the information, I am not willing to take the stance that the new people must do the same digging I did years ago.

Your questions are invited, otherwise the information on these forums becomes stale and just "more of the same" within the tenured few.

There, I said it.

Now, on to the question. Yes, there are a multitude of backs that fit, as long as they specifically say they are Graflok capable. The reason you more than deserve an answer is because, as I recall, there was another back adaptor system that looked much like Graflok, called the International Back. Now I don't know if they are interchangable, but I think not. If not, it would be easy to look at a back for the International system and buy it, thinking it will fit on the Graflok system. I welcome any correction here, but this is more on the order of helping a new large formatter, than telling him/her to go do the research somewhere else.

It has been my experience in teaching classes in computers and photography, that for every one person willing to ask the questions, at least a half dozen other people get information they did not previously have. This should be all the more reason to assist people when they inquire on what to many of us is a "too simple question"

Welcome again, and hang in there... keep asking and I, for one, will keep answering.

BTW, it's not in the inexpensive range, but I have a friend who has an almost unused Horseman 6X12 roll film back that fits Graflok. It comes in the ballistic cloth case also like new... for $450. So, there is a wide range of price and quality out there. I recently sold a 4X5 Graflok based Graflex 6X9 with the extra pin rollers for film flatness for $95. Somebody snapped it up for the BIN price after it had been posted on eBay for two hours. eBay is a good source, if you are careful about feedback. No purchasing from sellers without a couple of hundred feedbacks and a positive rating of 99% or better. No exceptions. There is no reasonable excuse for positive feedback below 98% on 200 or more transations. Not when your sending your money via the internet.

I must also add here that the information on Chamonix is one of the most closely held secrets in LF photography. Until the web site went up very recently, I was truly disappointed in the amount of specific information available on the camera. Since the demand seems great and the manufacturing capacity is limited, finding information on Chamonix has been paltry not more than a few months ago, when I became interested.

Paul Kierstead
18-Nov-2008, 10:37
It's got a graflock type back and It'll accept anything like any other camera with that kind of back.

Do you have any idea how confusing the whole graflock back thing is to people new to LF? It is quite frustrating, and there are not good, clear, diagrammed references on the internet explaining it clearly, or at least none that I ever came across while looking a couple of years back. Even when I bought my recent Crown Graphic, I didn't understand until I read the manual for the camera, and suddenly realized I could pop the glass and use graflock accessories on the calumut monorail I had owned for a few years (yes, I am embarrassed, but how would I have known? it isn't at all obvious until you have done it)

BradS
18-Nov-2008, 11:20
Sorry there's just so many "what kind of quick release, what kind of tripod, what kind of lens board, what kind of lens for my chamonix" threads since these cameras surfaced.

Oh, and don't forget..."What kind of darkcloth?"

Yeah, I'm a little tired of the hype too....this too shall pass. I remember when the Shen-Hao came out...it was the same way. Everybody had to get a Shen...and everybody had a million questions about the things because there was no manual....(or website). Now, the shen is passe and the Sham is the shit....funny. (yawn)

Kuzano
18-Nov-2008, 12:16
Oh, and don't forget..."What kind of darkcloth?"

Yeah, I'm a little tired of the hype too....this too shall pass. I remember when the Shen-Hao came out...it was the same way. Everybody had to get a Shen...and everybody had a million questions about the things because there was no manual....(or website). Now, the shen is passe and the Sham is the shit....funny. (yawn)

Ah yes, but not so quick to dismiss the Shen Hoa, since they just came out with a pretty close carbon copy of the Chamonix, which appears to be as light and less expensive. So gird yourshelf for a new run of Shen Hao questions.

But, we will all learn more from the answers to the questions posed by the neophytes.

I also submit that if one has the time and motivation to "diss" the new people for their questions, wouldn't it be more productive to spend that time with helpful answers. If you don't want to help, simply skip to the next thread. Much simpler and less stressful.

It's up to the moderators to tell us when we are wasting bandwidth uselessly.

BradS
18-Nov-2008, 12:26
No...you miss the point. I'm not "dissing" the newbie questions and I don't think vinny is either. Far from it. I'm just bemoaning the hype....Chamonix this, chamonix that..blah, blah, blah...Chamonix, Chamonix....CHAMONIX as if there were no other cameras out there. It just gets old.


Personally, between the two, I'd rather have the more conventional Shen-Hao HZX 45ii-a (or what ever their Ebony rippoff is called) than the Chamonix.

gevalia
18-Nov-2008, 13:10
Enough guys. Just enough. I'm sorry that the LF camera I have AS A NEWBIE is a Chamonix. I'm sorry that it's not a Sonar or Linoff or whatever. Next time I'll call it "camera X" to make your feel warm and fuzzy.

Thanks to those of you that helped me out (and you did). For the others, well, . . .

gevalia
18-Nov-2008, 13:13
No...you miss the point. I'm not "dissing" the newbie questions and I don't think vinny is either. Far from it. I'm just bemoaning the hype....Chamonix this, chamonix that..blah, blah, blah...Chamonix, Chamonix....CHAMONIX as if there were no other cameras out there. It just gets old.


Personally, between the two, I'd rather have the more conventional Shen-Hao HZX 45ii-a (or what ever their Ebony rippoff is called) than the Chamonix.

Thanks Brad. I didn't realize that my question included product hype.

dbdotdot
18-Nov-2008, 13:22
gevalia---

I feel really bad to see you have to go through this. There's little wonder why the LF community has the rep of a bunch of out of touch, elitist, throwbacks. You asked a simple question, you deserve a polite answer, Chamonix or not.

marschp
18-Nov-2008, 13:24
I used an old arca 6x7 rfh for LF and it worked fine. On the other hand, I tried to connect an old Mamiya 6x7 medium format back via an adpater plate purchased from China on ebay, and the adapter plate was too thin for the retaining latches on the Chamonix. It looked to me as though the chamonix was correct and the adpater plate was the wrong thickness. Good luck with the Chamonix - its a great camera for the money. Paul

Kuzano
18-Nov-2008, 13:36
Now I get the picture. I'm prone to vomit if I hear one more question about pricing on the Leica M8, or when it's going to get a Full Frame Sensor (Not), over on that other forum. I just don't hit the button any more on those questions.

vinny
18-Nov-2008, 13:55
My point should have been: do a search of your topic before you post. I didn't say you were a newbie. If you had searched "chamonix roll film backs" you would have found these threads:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=35345&highlight=chamonix+roll+film+backs
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=37190&highlight=chamonix+roll+film+backs
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=32829&highlight=chamonix+roll+film+backs

vinny

George Hofmann
18-Nov-2008, 22:03
Guys,

Does anyone know "from personal experience" which inexpensive roll film backs will work on a Chamonix 4x5?

Ron

Regarding the original question here...I have a Chamonix 45N-1 and I have used a Toyo roll film holder with it. The camera's ground glass springs back far enough to allow this holder to be inserted like a sheet film holder. Or it can be attached like a Graflok back. I don't think that you would consider this holder an inexpensive one. When I run out the film that I have in it now I will be selling it, probably here on the forum. I'll probably ask about $150 for it. Why sell it? It is a 6x7 format and I prefer 6x9.

George

Turner Reich
18-Nov-2008, 22:31
A Calumet roll film holder won't fit in the back of my Shen Haooo, even though it has Graflok back hardware. A couple of runs through the table saw and it would fit justttt fine. The work-man-ship is about 95% good on these cameras. Dorff they are not.

Daniel_Buck
18-Nov-2008, 23:24
sometimes things just need to be hit with a file :-D

kev curry
20-Nov-2008, 07:38
Gevalia, don't let the minority voice have any impact at all, just treat it like you would a little fart in a thunder storm:) I just bought an ''All Black Chamonix'' and its the bees knee's, you've got to see this thing its amazing, its just so lovely to behold. Its such a fabulously intuitive design, so wonderfully smooth in operation and reassuringly stable inspite of its amazingly light weight... geez its lighter than my 35 camera, how cool is that? If I could buy my first LF camera all over again, do you know what I would buy... yes you've guest it, the All Black Chamonix, and without a second thought, did I tell you how cool the Chamonix is?
Thank your self lucky that you never bought one of the other rip off cameras and then discovered the Chamonix after parting with your cash...I suppose you can understand how some people get all bitchy about the Beautiful Chamonix beauty makes some people mad;-)


kev

kev curry
20-Nov-2008, 10:02
.....sorry I forgot to mention that the workmanship on the Chamonix is absolutely crafted to perfection.....its 100%. No cheap sloppy stuff here, just perfect and no need to run them through saws or anything... you don't need a degree in woodworking to own the Chamonix :D Oh and what about the ground glass and fresnel combination on these babies...what do they make this stuff out of... its revolutionary! I've written Chamonix recommending that they consider fitting a brightness control knob on future runs of there amazing cameras...its so bright under the darkcloth that Ive got to wear sun glasses when composing... no kidding its hard to believe but its even brighter that the legendary GG and fresnel of my much loved but now happily out classed Tachihara...now how cool is that?

Aender Brepsom
20-Nov-2008, 11:19
.....sorry I forgot to mention that the workmanship on the Chamonix is absolutely crafted to perfection.....its 100%. No cheap sloppy stuff here, just perfect and no need to run them through saws or anything... you don't need a degree in woodworking to own the Chamonix :D Oh and what about the ground glass and fresnel combination on these babies...what do they make this stuff out of... its revolutionary! I've written Chamonix recommending that they consider fitting a brightness control knob on future runs of there amazing cameras...its so bright under the darkcloth that Ive got to wear sun glasses when composing... no kidding its hard to believe but its even brighter that the legendary GG and fresnel of my much loved but now happily out classed Tachihara...now how cool is that?

Hi Kev,

now I really do believe that you love your new Chamonix! And I am glad that it has found such a good place in your hands. Enjoy it!

all the best

Aender

kev curry
20-Nov-2008, 11:51
Ah.... Aender, yes... its love alright!
You can rest assured my friend that she'll be forever treasured.
I went out and bought her a very stylish leather jacket, just as a little token of my enduring love and commitment... of course this is not entirely altruistic, it will of course ensure her demure good looks are preserved for my continuing pleasure's.
I must say that I greatly admire your tremendous strength of character and wonderfully rare selflessness... parting with a gem of such elegance and beauty must have been frightfully difficulty.
Are you still making progress with the therapist ;)

Best

kev

Now wheres that sick bucket?

Aender Brepsom
20-Nov-2008, 12:06
Kev, I would never want to try and convince you of other cameras' merits, but actually, for me, it was no difficult at all to part with the Chamonix. Yes, it is ... no, I'm not going to describe its beauty, because nobody can do it so well as you.
But ever since I had my first Ebony, I know what kind of a camera I really like. Going back to an SW45 after the Chamonix was the right thing for me.
So that makes at least two happy persons here. Perfect, isn't it.

kev curry
20-Nov-2008, 12:12
''Perfect''...yes you are so right Aender!
So there are two kinds of camera heaven....hmmm:)

PenGun
20-Nov-2008, 12:31
I'm not sure about "all black" but my Canadian Maple blond baby is a very beautiful thing.

I have nothing to compare it to being a newbie too but it does seem to be very well thought out and a joy to use ... altougth I'm not sure what I'm doing most of the time. Less is more in movement I think but apart from that .... doh.

I am going to get the leather jacket too. It's very cute.

GSX4
20-Nov-2008, 13:06
Gevalia, my chamonix works great with Graflex 4x5 - roll film backs. The trick to using them is being dextrous enough to flip the springs up on the back of the camera to allow sliding of the screen out. It takes a few attempts, but works slick. When using the roll film back, you can use the two rotating locking cams to keep the film back attached... Just incase you wondered what those two things were.

David Karp
20-Nov-2008, 13:13
Check here for information regarding the different backs that came with Graphic cameras (the source for our current international standard Graflok back). http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/features.html#GraflokBack

Yes, it can be confusing.

kev curry
20-Nov-2008, 13:23
I don't want to rub anymore salt into the wounds of those unfortunate's that don't yet own the magnificent Chamonix... and an alluringly seductive and fiendishly tight leather clad one at that, but do you not all agree that the Chamonix is the most captivating camera ever conceived:)

BradS
20-Nov-2008, 15:41
I don't want to rub anymore salt into the wounds of those unfortunate's that don't yet own the magnificent Chamonix... and an alluringly seductive and fiendishly tight leather clad one at that, but do you not all agree that the Chamonix is the most captivating camera ever conceived:)


just keep telling yourself that Kev....eventually, you may actually come to believe it yourself. Good luck. :)

PenGun
20-Nov-2008, 16:45
just keep telling yourself that Kev....eventually, you may actually come to believe it yourself. Good luck. :)

You don't understand. The whole bottom, snicker, is carbon fiber. It's the baked stuff like black wood from hell. It's unnervingly lovely.

My intelligent choice, to contrast this with the blond beauty of Canadian Maple, was spot on. My camera is so beautiful I anticipate several months before I am able to take a picture worthy of the takers own beauty.

Peter ... really I was going to order exactly what I bought. ;).

Turner Reich
20-Nov-2008, 17:32
sometimes things just need to be hit with a file :-D
__________________

...at the end of a rotohammer...

In all fairness, I am OK with the Shen Hao, it's a low end cost camera but one that does the job. It has a few machine errors but what the hey, I bet there are thousands of them out there in the field now. If anything they made 4x5 more accessible to the masses and that's good. I picked it up because, well, I just wanted a new camera and it's a nice folding field camera that takes my lenses, holders and most of the accessories I already have. I wish it had a few inches more of bellows thought but an extension on the back of say 4 inches would do the trick, not a hard project. A lens extension would work too but the back would be easier.

Rafael Garcia
20-Nov-2008, 18:36
The question was a simple one: A Graphic 6x7 roll film back does well on the Chamonix. I bought mine from a friend for $25.00.

A graflock accepts all types of backs, expensive and inexpensive. The Graphics are inexpensive. And yes, I also use it with a Wista 45SP. That is possible by cutting a slot on the Graphic to "key" to the Wista ridge designed so people buy only their expensive rollfilm backs. Expensive and cheap, they both do the same!

kev curry
20-Nov-2008, 23:47
I bet there are thousands of them out there in the field now. If anything they made 4x5 more accessible to the masses and that's good.

All kidding aside, I couldn't agree more... great point!

kev curry
21-Nov-2008, 02:53
just keep telling yourself that Kev....eventually, you may actually come to believe it yourself. Good luck. :)

He who comes late comes hardest....watch out:)