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rafarojas44
13-Nov-2008, 14:35
Hi everybody!
I have a very straigth question: If you put a Schneider super angulon 90 5.6 XL and a Schneider apo symmar L 180 5.6 on a:

-Fotoman 617 Mk2L

-Gaoersi 617 shift

and you make a print of 2x6 meters...

And now I use a Linhof Technorama with its lenses and make the same prints...

DO YOU SEE A DIFFERENCE?

What I am asking basically is: Is the price difference reflected in the quality of the results, i mean, the prints?? Because, and here is where I might be displaying publically my stupidity, I understand that if film flatness is the same, the glass is the same and the lens is correctly focused...the result should be the same? Of course, I put aside other considerations, like ease to be used, durability or prestige linked to special brands...

I am a simple guy, and I can perfectly live with less bells and whistles, and having more difficulties for loading the film or doing some operations does not scare me...but in terms of final quality of the prints, I am not ready to make any compromises. I consider myself (my wife agrees:) a freak of sharp, contrasty and nice results...perhaps my engineering background has deformed me so! :)

What do you think?

I deeply appreciate in advance your comments. It is really wonderful to have people like you helping those like me still asking stupid questions :)

Kind regards from Switzerland,
Rafael

Rakesh Malik
13-Nov-2008, 14:57
Hi everybody!
DO YOU SEE A DIFFERENCE?

What I am asking basically is: Is the price difference reflected in the quality of the results, i mean, the prints??

If I show you an image rendered with Houdini Mantra, can you tell whether my computer had Linux, Windows, or OSX on it?

Gordon Moat
13-Nov-2008, 15:04
I would imagine better film flatness from a 6x12 (or even 6x9), and then crop to the other aspect ratio, but in your list of 6x17 cameras the Linhof has better film advance. You might also compare the Fuji 6x17, which comes in slightly lower in cost, and Fujinon lenses arguably as good as Schneider. Consider that the Gaoersi and Fotoman use a red window for film advance, which could be troublesome under some lighting conditions.

As to whether or not shift is important, I would prefer it with wider lenses, and might do okay without it with longer lenses. On the older Linhof, if I recall correctly, there was a built in 4mm rise, which might be enough in many situations.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

David A. Goldfarb
13-Nov-2008, 15:19
I have yet to have a problem with the film counter window on my DaYi 6x17 back, even in full daylight, but it is actually an open window with a light seal around it, and there is a shutter, so it is only open when the film is advanced.

The DaYi 4x5"->6x17 back works pretty well, and I have full view camera movements and even the use of the rangefinder with a 150mm lens on my Tech V, but I would be surprised if the Linhof Technorama didn't have better film flatness.

Brian K
13-Nov-2008, 15:41
Hi everybody!
I have a very straigth question: If you put a Schneider super angulon 90 5.6 XL and a Schneider apo symmar L 180 5.6 on a:

-Fotoman 617 Mk2L

-Gaoersi 617 shift

and you make a print of 2x6 meters...

And now I use a Linhof Technorama with its lenses and make the same prints...

DO YOU SEE A DIFFERENCE?

What I am asking basically is: Is the price difference reflected in the quality of the results, i mean, the prints?? Because, and here is where I might be displaying publically my stupidity, I understand that if film flatness is the same, the glass is the same and the lens is correctly focused...the result should be the same? Of course, I put aside other considerations, like ease to be used, durability or prestige linked to special brands...

I am a simple guy, and I can perfectly live with less bells and whistles, and having more difficulties for loading the film or doing some operations does not scare me...but in terms of final quality of the prints, I am not ready to make any compromises. I consider myself (my wife agrees:) a freak of sharp, contrasty and nice results...perhaps my engineering background has deformed me so! :)

What do you think?

I deeply appreciate in advance your comments. It is really wonderful to have people like you helping those like me still asking stupid questions :)

Kind regards from Switzerland,
Rafael


A print of 2x6 meters? Really a 36x enlargement? How far away will people view it?
Because at that size the film itself is going to have giant blobs of grain and lose it's apparent resolution unless it's viewed at a realistic distance. But at a realistic distance you probably would not see much of a difference with any of the choices.

I own a Fuji GX617 system and a Fotoman 612 system, which is near identical to the fotoman 617. I can tell you that there are multiple factors that will affect your sharpness and resolution: lens sharpness, film flatness, shutter and camera vibration, accuracy of focus and parallelism of lens to film.

The fotoman has excellent film flatness because you can counter rotate the two film knobs and pull the film taut. The pressure plate also provides a great deal of force so it is very unlikely to release the film once you have tightened it. The Fuji uses a rapid advance, which is far faster and more convenient but most likely is a little looser.

The fuji limits you to 4 lenses, 90mm, 105mm, 180mm and 300mm. The fotoman allows you many to choose from. I use everything from a 65mm Grandagon to a 360mm Tele Nikkor. So you can pick and choose from the best of lenses. The drawback is that the lens changing system is primitive, 4 screws. On the Fuji there's a quick and convenient lens release/changing system.

The fotoman is heavier than the Fuji, which provides more vibration resistance but also more weight . The viewfinders on the Fotoman are fair, on the fuji they're excellent. They also make a shift/rise adapter for the Fotoman.

Focus accuracy can be excellent on the Fotoman because you set the infinity point yourself by using a small piece of supplied GG (not the GG back) on the film rail and then setting the lens, and it's infinity point. The GG backs that fotoman sells and that slip in place magnetically have to be checked because I've had 2 that do not sit properly on the film rail. I would not use the distances on the fotoman's helicals for critical focus, except for infinity once you have set that, because they do not seem to be accurate. The GG should always be used at anything except infinity focusing.

Image quality from the fotoman can be just as good as that from the Fuji or the Linhof.

Jim Galli
13-Nov-2008, 15:43
The answer to your question is the lens paints the light, not the light tight box the film is in.

rafarojas44
15-Nov-2008, 11:03
Thanks very much for your answers! I think i might invest in the best lenses and get a Fotoman...The versatility of the system might enable me go with a Gilde in a future, if i get really strong in that field and a digital back becomes common in this format...

Thanks again
Rafael