617 sensor with 261 MP from Red

[AJSJones]

Red's new announcements (http://www.red.com/epic_scarlet/)

28,000 x 9,334 pixels (of 6 micron size) at up to 25 fps (for just the right capture :):) :cool:

$tart $saving but keep your LF lenses

They do have smaller ones too...

[Gordon Moat]

Definitely not light weight, though quite interesting. I'm not so sure about the electronic viewfinder either, though I have used those often on video cameras without trouble. Obviously none of this is high volume, though it is nice to see some competition in the market. The trickle down effect of the technology will be what us mere mortals (without Hollywood budgets) will have to wait for in the future.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

[drew.saunders]

Of somewhat more "practical" consideration is that they're doing a 56x42mm "645" full frame 65MP unit for a mere $45K, which, should it ever exist, increases the probability of a c. 100MP 6x7cm unit that might be of interest to LF digital shooters.

Now, off to buy a lottery ticket...

Drew

[vinny]

For those of you who don't know, RED is owned and operated by the guy who created Oakley, the sunglass company. I haven't heard anything great about the cameras he's got out now. Maybe they'll get better.......let's hope not!

[Daniel_Buck]

I haven't heard anything great about the cameras he's got out now.
Agreed. After all the hype, most of what I hear is problems.

[Jeffrey Sipress]

In five years, we'll all own one of these. Probably around $5K.

[Bob Salomon]

You all probably missed this at Photokina:

Technorama 612 digital

The picture gate 8000 production2 production is the fastest scanback of the world. The new adapter is for Technorama 612 lenses: a high end panorama scan back camera for outdoor activities.

– Max. optical resolution 8.000 x 13.000 Pixel
– Color depth 48 bit Max. file size 595 MB with 48 Bit RGB
– Max. scan speed 29 Seconds for a fullscan with max. resolution

[Gordon Moat]

Hi Bob, is that the Seitz scanpack?

Personally I would find 6x12 more useful, and one could always crop slightly to match proportion of longer panoramic views. One other issue of really large imaging chips is the file sizes, because the computing requirements become greater. I could see four to six shots being processed on a laptop draining the battery in under an hour.

A couple interesting considerations for the future: there have been rumors of greatly improved chip making allowing greater yields on larger area chips. The implication is greatly reduced costs in the future, though it also makes even larger chips viable. While I don't know if that would mean a 4x5 (9x12) chip, I could imagine a true 6x7cm chip, and quite likely as a nice rental unit for those not wanting to dump vast amounts of cash into an expendable.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Wow, what a difference a mere decade of technical progress makes.

Twenty-five frames per second at 261 MegaPIXELS (which frame each have gotta be close to a gigabyte, pre-crunching, right?) versus one frame at 595 megabytes, once in twenty-nine seconds.

(The RED is a digital-capture motion picture camera for any who've might've missed that point.)

[Bob Salomon]

Hi Bob, is that the Seitz scanpack?

Personally I would find 6x12 more useful, and one could always crop slightly to match proportion of longer panoramic views. One other issue of really large imaging chips is the file sizes, because the computing requirements become greater. I could see four to six shots being processed on a laptop draining the battery in under an hour.



Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

No, this is a Linhof so it is an Anagramm back.

[Stephen Best]

Hi Bob, is that the Seitz scanpack?

Anagramm:

http://www.anagramm.com/

Tethered use only.

[AutumnJazz]

Funny, I've heard nothing but good things about the RED ONE.

[Nathan Potter]

Anyone know if the 617 sensor is a single monolithic chip or multiple chips arrayed together?

And what is the advantage of such a large sensor when what we get now at the movie theatre is HD size projected formats?

Nate Potter, Boston MA.

[Bruce Watson]

In five years, we'll all own one of these. Probably around $5K.

No we won't. Certainly not all of us. There's a number of photographers who have zero interest in video. There's a number of photographers who use a view camera for camera movements. I don't think I'm alone in having zero interest in this chunk of vapor ware.

[Michael Chmilar]

From the photos in the Red literature, the 6x17 sensor looks like one single piece.

If someone starts shooting movies with the 6x17 sensor, I would assume that it would be for projection in a custom-built "special venue", similar to IMAX theatres, but with a digital projector.

Normal theatrical digital projection will probably standardize on 4k projectors (ie. 4096x2160 pixels, or 4x the resolution of HD), so the Red 6x17 is overkill.

I can't imagine what kind of storage device you would need to shoot motion with the 6x17 at 24fps and capture Raw data....

[Gordon Moat]

Storage of files and processing are definitely issues to consider. While RED are working with Adobe on this, and they produce a software processing codec, the requirements are only getting tougher, which will slow down processing.

The manufacturer making those chips can do them in one part. So this is not a scanning camera, like the Seitz or Linhof/Anagramm solutions. I have to wonder what they are doing to minimize heat and noise buildup on such a large sensor; that would be much more of an accomplishment than the large chip size. Previous largest single chip I once viewed was a 5" square chip from Dalsa.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

[Tyler Boley]

did someone say "a mere $45K"?

that's forty-five thousand dollars written out in actual English, right? $45,000.00? For a camera back?

Tyler

[C. D. Keth]

Agreed. After all the hype, most of what I hear is problems.

Yeah, basically. I just finished a feature and a commercial with a RED. They're kind of a pain in the ass. They can make beautiful pictures when they're tamed, though. 35mm film makes beautiful pictures easier and the cameras already have the bugs worked out.

[JimL]

From the photos in the Red literature, the 6x17 sensor looks like one single piece.

Those image are all renderings from 3D CAD software, so they can make look like anything they want...

[AutumnJazz]

Yeah, basically. I just finished a feature and a commercial with a RED. They're kind of a pain in the ass. They can make beautiful pictures when they're tamed, though. 35mm film makes beautiful pictures easier and the cameras already have the bugs worked out.

Care to expand? As I said earlier, I've heard nothing but good things...Eg. someone renting one for a commercial and falling in love with it so they got their company to buy one.

[AFSmithphoto]

I think the red scarlet system could be a huge success. Most of all I'm excited about the modular design, something I think most LF shooters may take for granted, but that just plain doesn't exist on DSLR/Profesional Video systems. What I don't see is any kind of lens mount for LF lenses. (They claim they will have their own line of 645 lenses though.)

Does anyone know if the 6x17 is intended to be mounted as a standard camera back? Even if not I suppose we could figure out how to rig it fairly easily.

[elliotwr]

Funny, I've heard nothing but good things about the RED ONE.
I'm not sure which cinematographers or ACs you've been talking to, but the reality is much different.

The RED One is a perfect example of a grand concept gone horribly awry in its technical execution. I work at a prominent film/video camera rental house and this camera has caused us nothing but problems. I once drove two back up bodies to a commercial studio in one day. The modular design of it makes it very difficult to diagnose problems. It's essentially a computer with a lens attached to it, and the computer is faulty. If these new models from Red are anything like the RED One, I'll keep my wallet closed. Maybe they'll prove us wrong though.

[AutumnJazz]

Well, that's disappointing...Hopefully they can work out the problems; the Scarlet sounds like it would be perfect for indie film makes with low budgets.