how much of this is just opinion...?

[cobalt]

Hello.
I just recently sold off my Nikon D300 as well as my Nikon 9000 film scanner. I am keeping the Epson (for now, anyway) for rescuing those negatives that I fubar. I am directing my focus to the production of silver gelatin prints.

Shortly after the scanner was gone, I started to get cold feet, and question my reasoning: Are inkjets all that inferior? You aren't the best printer in the world... sure you don't need that scanner to fall back on? Do silver gelatin prints really look that good? Are they worth the time, tedium and frustration put into refining just one image on light sensitive paper? And the spotting! NOT a fan of the spotting!

But then I looked at a succesful silver print I'd made on Ilford warmtone glossy fiber based paper. Suddenly, all the doubts fell away like water off a ducks back. I really like the results when I do things right. When its good, its REALLY good, when it's bad...

Any way, I guess it's a matter of opinion. I (and others) still like my inkjets; I just think the silver prints are infinitely superior. I guess it's all a matter of opinion; most people seem not to be able to tell the difference...

Your... opinions are welcome.

[Gem Singer]

"How much of this is just opinion?"

All of it!

[cobalt]

"How much of this is just opinion?"

All of it!

Maybe I wasn't clear (won't be the first time):

What I meant was: Is PHOTOGRAPHY as an art form simply a matter of opinion?

[Allen in Montreal]

........

What I meant was: Is PHOTOGRAPHY as an art form simply a matter of opinion?

Yes, now you must choose the manner in which you feel the most reward from while expressing that art form. Whether silver or ink.

Digital and ink is my work,
so silver has become my pleasure, as you stated, when it is right on, it is oh so beautiful!

[cobalt]

Yes, now you must choose the manner in which you feel the most reward from while expressing that art form. Whether silver or ink.

Digital and ink is my work,
so silver has become my pleasure, as you stated, when it is right on, it is oh so beautiful!

I find silver more rewarding because I prefer it. My clients, who, as of late, are as common as hen's teeth, don't seem to care or know the difference. So I guess this begs the question: Why am I really doing this? For the money, or for personal gratification...?

[Steven Barall]

There's nothing empirical about this stuff, it's all a matter of opinion. It simply is what it is. It's all about being comfortable with your compromises. Also there are many different reasons why people do this stuff, they want different things from the experience.

Its not only about the look of the finished product but about the process itself. I personally am interested in the shortest possible road to the print as far as that part of the process goes. I invest my time and energy in the camera part of the process because for me that's where the valuable experience is and the rest of the process, the processing and printing is just a job so I give the film to the lab and then scan and make prints on my ink jet.

As a frequent viewer of photos I don't think that silver is better than ink jet or the other way around, I'm really just interested in the image. In the end you have to get out of the process what you want to get out of it. You have to be satisfied and to hell with the rest of us. After all, Art can only be a matter of opinion so you might as well do what makes you happy because you can't control opinions.

Have a nice day.

[Brian Ellis]

Maybe I wasn't clear (won't be the first time):

What I meant was: Is PHOTOGRAPHY as an art form simply a matter of opinion?

Neither the word "photography" nor the phrase "art form" is used in your message. Your entire message is devoted to darkroom prints and ink jet prints. If you want people to discuss the question of whether photography as an art form is a matter of opinion (an odd question but you're certainly free to ask it) I suggest you delete the message you've posted and ask that question. If you want people to discuss the question of whether in their opinion a darkroom print on fiber paper is "better" for them than an ink jet print then leave your message as it is.

[Michael Alpert]

Is PHOTOGRAPHY as an art form simply a matter of opinion?

Cobalt,

You statement/question is pure (or not-so-pure) Zen, but I'll attempt an answer.

You are perhaps asking if photography is included in the world of art.

Or you are asking if the evaluation of specific photographs is a matter of arbitrary opinion.

Or you are asking if the technical side of printmaking (for example, ink prints versus silver prints) determines (or is of primary importance to) the aesthetic value of a specific photographic print.

If any one of these questions is what you are asking, I would answer: (1) yes; (2) no; and (3) maybe. I would further say that the material beauty of a print can only be dismissed if one is thinking of photography solely as a vehicle for information (as in low level photojournalism).

[Bruce Watson]

Any way, I guess it's a matter of opinion. I (and others) still like my inkjets; I just think the silver prints are infinitely superior. I guess it's all a matter of opinion; most people seem not to be able to tell the difference...

Your... opinions are welcome.

Inkjet prints and silver gelatin prints are two different media. Inkjet prints are not wanna-be silver gelatin prints. If you can ever quit thinking that then perhaps you can see them for what they really are. Which is inkjet prints.

All media, be it silver gelatin, albumen, salt, platinum, ... inkjet have their own personalities, their own strengths and weaknesses. It's up to the artist to decide which media best fits the work they do and the workflow they use to do it.

You are right that it's all a matter of opinion. But in this case yours is the only opinion that counts. Have the courage to do what you want.

[cobalt]

Neither the word "photography" nor the phrase "art form" is used in your message. Your entire message is devoted to darkroom prints and ink jet prints. If you want people to discuss the question of whether photography as an art form is a matter of opinion (an odd question but you're certainly free to ask it) I suggest you delete the message you've posted and ask that question. If you want people to discuss the question of whether in their opinion a darkroom print on fiber paper is "better" for them than an ink jet print then leave your message as it is.

I haven't needed help with expressing an opinion since I was four. To rebut your response would be a waste of time.

[cobalt]

Neither the word "photography" nor the phrase "art form" is used in your message. Your entire message is devoted to darkroom prints and ink jet prints. If you want people to discuss the question of whether photography as an art form is a matter of opinion (an odd question but you're certainly free to ask it) I suggest you delete the message you've posted and ask that question. If you want people to discuss the question of whether in their opinion a darkroom print on fiber paper is "better" for them than an ink jet print then leave your message as it is.

I haven't needed help with expressing an opinion since I was four. To rebut your response would be a waste of time.


To the rest of you:

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

f.

[Maris Rusis]

If it's just pictures you want then either gelatin-silvers or ink-jets will do fine.

If you want photographs, objects bearing marks because they were struck by light, then only gelatin-silvers are the real thing.

If you want surfaces bearing marks because they were struck by ink then only ink-jets will do. Gelatin-silvers are no use.

The key reason for choosing between photographs or ink-jets is not down to appearances. Ink-jet technology, even now in its infancy, is largely capable of replicating the appearance of pictures executed in any medium. The choice hinges on the relationship the pictures have to subject matter and the way the astute viewer responds to this relationship.

Photographs are made by a physical sample of subject matter penetrating a sensitive surface. The penetrated surface is the photograph.

Ink-jets are generated by a mark making machine mapping the contents of an electronic file onto a piece of paper.

Photographs are evidence, ink-jets are testimony. The astute viewer who knows all of this can respond with goose bumps or yawns; their choice. The casual viewer doesn't care. It's all just pictures, isn't it?

[cobalt]

Yeah...
That's what I'm afraid of...

[Greg Lockrey]

If it dazels they eye, what difference does it make how it's made? There will always be a "better" way to make a print but how much better verses effort only you can answer.

[Brian Ellis]

I haven't needed help with expressing an opinion since I was four. To rebut your response would be a waste of time.

Well a year isn't a very long time.

[Daniel_Buck]

I may have a different perspective than most here, since my day job involves creating something from nothing in 3d on a computer. So digital techniques don't scare me, or put me off, and I am very familier and comfortable in a digital world.

I think a digital print is still a print. While it may not be as high quality as a nice traditional print, I think for the most part it's adequate for my needs, which is to have a print to show people :) And in general, most people I show my prints to probably wouldn't know the difference from a digital print and a wet-room print anyway. And on top of that, I have no room in my apartment for a darkroom setup. I do hope one day to get a dark room setup with an enlarger and such when I have good room for it, but for now digital prints are doing just fine.

I don't print them myself, I have them printed elsewhere, done with light and chemicals (RA4), so kind of 1/2 way inbetween ink-jet and traditional. The paper and chemicals are still pretty much traditional, but the source of the projected image is digital.

My way of thinking is (and probably again, from my line of work) if you are in doubt about your technique (of printing), do a test with some other techniques. See what the visible difference is, and balance that against how much time and resources is taken to achieve that difference, and what skill level you have for each technique. Then all you need to do is decide which one you like best, taking into consideration which one is achievable within your tolerance of time/resources and skill level :)

[cobalt]

Interesting suggestion.

[John Voss]

In our house prints are made three ways: as silver-gelatin B&W wet prints on FB air dried glossy paper by me, as color inkjets by my wife after she's tweaked them into beautifulness in CS3, and, again, by her as hand pulled photogravures with 'real' ink that doesn't just sit on the surface because an intaglio press has driven it into the fiber of the paper. Each, in its own right, looks wonderful. Each, in its own right, was very satisfying to produce because the act of making it was satisfying. None is superior to another; just different.