Jobo Primer

[Frank Petronio]

For that day when the lab closes....

So, for traditional B&W film development, 8x10 and 4x5, what is the best Jobo set-up? I've managed to avoid them for years, but it looks like one might be in the future. I used to tray develop for years, but that was many years ago.

I'd like to process a lot of film quickly, but in spurts, with weeks inbetween sessions....

What to buy?

By going with a Jobo set-up I think I could get away with using tap water and a daylight changing tent for loading the drums. Any reason not to believe this?

As for washing, what happens? Photoflo step? etc.

[Oren Grad]

CPA-2 or CPP-2 (unless you have room and money to mess with one of the pro ATL units). Jobo Lift accessory is mandatory.

Expert drum 3005 for five sheets of 8x10, 3010 for ten and/or 3006 for six sheets of 4x5. Foot pump to pop the lid after processing.

You wash in the drum, on the machine, with the number of extra steps in the process determined by how many changes of water you use. By doing that you're washing out the Lift and the drum too. Photo-flo is a separate, external step - I just fill a tray and dunk in that before hanging up on a line to dry.

Loading the drums is not hard, though I imagine you'd need a biggish changing tent to have room to maneuver with the 3005.

Make sure you get a unit with a late serial number - the motor was upgraded to accommodate the big, heavy Expert drums.

[bsimison]

Is Praus Productions closing, or are you talking about another lab?

[Ron Marshall]

You can do without the machines, if you are patient enough to turn the drum on the $25 roller base. I put some good music on and blast through two or three runs.

Tapwater is fine.

[danieljgregory]

Ron

I have been looking at the jobo on the roller base option as well, most of the postings I have read say that filling the expert tanks when not on the CPP machines results in uneven development because you have to add the chemistry when the tank is horizontal. can you explain how you get the chemistry into and out of the tanks to get the development even.

Thanks

Daniel

[eric black]

The setup Oren describes is exactly what I have and I feel that it works great. I cant imagine trying to load the 3005 expert drums in a tent though, they are quite large (even a 3010 would be a tight fit in my Harrison 8x10 tent). I use my bathroom in my basement which is easy to make light tight for most film loading and unloading activities

[Jeremy Moore]

I use the setup Oren describes except I use a Unicolor motor base with the expert tank instead of the big Jobo machine. It cost me $10 compared to the price of a Jobo machine.

As to Daniel's question about loading the tank vertically: I have never had ANY problems with uneven development. I use Pyrocat-M with a water pre-treatment and TMax developer with no pre-rinse and have never had any issues. There may be a case where loading the tank vertically causes uneveness, but it has never happened to me.

[Joe O'Hara]

I use a Jobo 3010 on a Beseler motor base, and load the chemistry through a filter funnel with a foot of vinyl tubing shoved onto the end of it ($0.85 at the local hardware store). Works great. Unless you are doing color, I don't think you need the processor to control the temperature assuming you've tempered the tank with 800 ml of water during the presoak step.

[Ron Marshall]

Ron

I have been looking at the jobo on the roller base option as well, most of the postings I have read say that filling the expert tanks when not on the CPP machines results in uneven development because you have to add the chemistry when the tank is horizontal. can you explain how you get the chemistry into and out of the tanks to get the development even.

Thanks

Daniel

I have never had uneven development. I always fill my Jobo Expert drum stationary and vertical. It takes about 10 seconds to fill 300ml through an ordinary funnel (hold the tank at a slight angle), and I make sure that my development times are over 6 minutes and I don't do a presoak.

If someone is using a large volume of developer and a short development time then it might be an issue.

[Marko]

I use the setup Oren describes except I use a Unicolor motor base with the expert tank instead of the big Jobo machine. It cost me $10 compared to the price of a Jobo machine.

As to Daniel's question about loading the tank vertically: I have never had ANY problems with uneven development. I use Pyrocat-M with a water pre-treatment and TMax developer with no pre-rinse and have never had any issues. There may be a case where loading the tank vertically causes uneveness, but it has never happened to me.

After comparing Unicolor and Beseler motor bases, I kept the Beseler as a bit stronger and more rugged unit. I cobbled together an electronic reversing switch that can be programmed for any time interval - I settled on 5-sec turns in each direction. It all cost me about $30, not counting the time spent customizing.

A $3 flexible oil funnel you can buy in any auto parts store works wonders for filling the tank while rotating on the base. All you have to do is make sure you pour the liquid a tiny bit slower than it can flow out of the funnel and into the drum so it doesn't overflow. One is enough, there is no need to worry about cross-contamination because you'll be working in single-use mode anyway.

[Baxter Bradford]

If you are looking ahead, then I would recommend seeing if an ATL machine comes up. Usually the bigger ones are cheapest since not everyone has space for them, whereas a premium is paid for compact nature of the ATL1500 and 1000.

I process in a similar manner, nothing, then loads at once (a difference being that I do E6, C41 and B+W). Being able to do other tasks whilst the chemicals are pumped in automatically and then washed away is wonderful.

I don't use the Expert tanks and have had consistently great results from the 2506N holders doing 6 sheets at a time. They are loaded in a Harrison std changing tent.

[venchka]

Similar technique to most above:

3010 drum on Uniroller or Beseler base
Pre-soak, 2-5 minutes
400ml (1 sheet) to 1000ml (6 sheets) of either D-76 1:1 or Xtol 1:3
Filter + hose to fill while turning on the base
8-12 minute developing times
No worries so far.

[Bruce Watson]

What Oren said.

I use a CPP-2 and a 3010 drum. Process 10 sheets of 5x4 at a time. Amazingly consistent, amazingly even development. Not a streak anywhere to be found.

The CPP-2 can handle the larger expert drums. The digital temperature control lets you do precision color work too if you ever go that way. Doesn't hurt for B&W either.

[venchka]

I'm trying to decide as I type if I want to go look at a CPP-2 next weekend. To date, I don't have problem with my home made processing rig for B&W. I actually think the CPP-2 would eb overkill for volume of B&W film processing. On the other hand, having a CPP-2 for color is very tempting.

Maybe it's time for another thread: To CPP-2 or not to CPP-2??????????

That really is the question.

Cheers!

Wayne


What Oren said.

I use a CPP-2 and a 3010 drum. Process 10 sheets of 5x4 at a time. Amazingly consistent, amazingly even development. Not a streak anywhere to be found.

The CPP-2 can handle the larger expert drums. The digital temperature control lets you do precision color work too if you ever go that way. Doesn't hurt for B&W either.

[Frank Petronio]

Geezum No -- Praus is not closing at all, don't start rumors! I'm just curious and thinking like 10 years and a different location from now.

[bsimison]

Geezum No -- Praus is not closing at all, don't start rumors! I'm just curious and thinking like 10 years and a different location from now.

Hey, sorry...not trying to start rumors. But when I hear someone who uses the same lab talk about contingency plans, I get nervous. Praus is my 5th lab in 3 years, 'cause the rest have all closed.

[Frank Petronio]

Edgar has another 10-20 years in him, I make sure he eats well and gets exercise.

[ic-racer]

I'll put my 2 cents in for the CPA2 with lift. I went for that over the small fully automated one because I can do 10 rolls of 120 at a time in the CPA2. That little one won't take the Expert drums either. I was anticipating using the water solenoid more often, but where I live now, the tap water isn't much colder than room temp. Sometimes it is above 20C.

I have a tempering box also (this has a temperature adjustment like the CPP2) and in comparison the digital controls on the CPA2 are really nice.

[Scott Schroeder]

I liked the drums and using the roller bases was fine but the CPA2 with a lift was pretty damn nice. I came across a nice deal that someone had with the bath removed. For BW, you don't need the bath anyway. I kind of wish I hadn't sold it....
Anyway, this (http://www.schroederworks.com/ForSale/LFGearForSale__027.JPG) is what it looked like.

[venchka]

I tried to have the discussion last night.

SWMBO decided the question in short order: Not to CPP-2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh well. At least I have a good assortment of tanks and drums and motor bases.

[Marko]

Swmbo?

[venchka]

She Who Must Be Obeyed.

[Marko]

Ah, The Boss... That's what I thought, just could not figure out the acronym. :)

[venchka]

Aye, The Boss!

Lacking support for my craft,

Wayne

[Gregg Cook]

I always wondered what that stood for....

[venchka]

Slightly off topic...........


Horace Rumpole
While certain biographical details are slightly different in the original TV series and the subsequent book series, Horace Rumpole has a number of definite character traits that are constant. First and foremost, Rumpole loves the courtroom. Despite attempts by his friends and family to get him to move on to a more respectable position for his age, such as a QC or a Circuit Judge (referred to as Queer Customers and Circus Judges by Rumpole), he only enjoys the simple pleasure of defending his clients at The Old Bailey, London's central criminal court. A devotee of Arthur Quiller-Couch's Oxford Book of English Verse, he often quotes Wordsworth and secretly calls his wife Hilda "She Who Must Be Obeyed" (SWMBO), a reference to the novel She by H. Rider Haggard.[1]