PDA

View Full Version : Quality question????????



ignatiusjk
24-Aug-2008, 11:53
I have a Epson 3800 printer with 4x5 negs scanned on a Epson V700 scanner at 400 ppi and when I make a 4x6 print they look great when I make a 16x20 print from the same settings my 16x20 look like I used a 35mm neg. Am I expecting to much or am I doing something wrong. It's VERY frustrating to get so so results from a 4x5 neg. The prints B&W or color have no resolution to them, like I said 4x6 they are tack sharp 16x20 look like there from a 35mm neg. WHAT DO I DO??? I'm new to digital try not to be to technical.

Colin Graham
24-Aug-2008, 11:55
You're enlarging to 16x20 from a 400ppi scan?

Bruce Watson
24-Aug-2008, 12:05
Am I expecting to much or am I doing something wrong?

You're doing something wrong. Specifically, you are confusing scanning resolution and output resolution. For a 4x enlargement (20x16 inches), try a scanning resolution of 1200 spi. This will give you file that will print at 20x16 with an output resolution of 300 ppi.

Ash
24-Aug-2008, 12:14
As far as I'm aware....if I wanted to print the image I'm scanning, I'd scan to the resolution I'd want to print. So, for example you select your output (target) size to be 16x20, and your resolution to be 300dpi.

By the way, if you haven't set your scanner to professional mode, you're probably not going to be able to do that.

http://www.dimagemaker.com/ktml2/images/uploads/scan/v500/prof.jpg

See, it gives a target size - that's the important bit. If it says original, you probably won't get the image you want. Try scanning at target size 16x20 with resolution 150, 300, 600. Compare that to target size 'original' at 150, 300, 600 resolution.

Alan Davenport
24-Aug-2008, 13:05
4x5 at 400ppi is only 1600x2000 pixels. In reality you have less than that because the image area is less than 4x5. That would only be good for about a 5x7 print. For a 16x20 print you need 4800x6000 pixels.

You should always scan film at the maximum optical resolution of your scanner. Then do all of your adjustments at that resolution, and save the entire thing as a layered PSD. Only resize to smaller print sizes after all adjustments have been made. After resizing for each size you need to print, sharpen the resized image and save it as a TIFF for that print size.

And yes, it will fill up your hard drive. Buy another. Storage is ridiculously cheap these days.

Preston
24-Aug-2008, 16:54
Alan's advice is excellent. He said, "...Then do all of your adjustments at that resolution, and save the entire thing as a layered PSD". This will be your 'Master' file.

I save my master files in their own folder. When I want a print or a web image, I open my master file, choose Image>Duplicate...and then close the master file so that I don't screw it up by mistake. I then resize and sharpen the duplicate as needed, and save it to a designated folder. I save files for print as PSD files, rather than TIFF out of personal preference.

-P

neil poulsen
24-Aug-2008, 20:05
The maximum "optical resolution" isn't usually the maximum resolution that your scanner shows on the menu. The maximum optical resolution is the highest resolution before your scanner has to upres in order to obtain the resolution you specified in the menu.

Another term for the maximum optical resolution is the maximum native resolution of the scanner.

Brian Ellis
24-Aug-2008, 20:31
The usual practice is to scan at the maximum resolution the scanner is capable of resolving. For your scanner that's about 2000 ppi. 400 ppi is way way too small for a 16x20 print.

Darryl Baird
24-Aug-2008, 21:05
I'm with Ash on this question -- set whatever your target file size needs in terms of resolution and always scan for that final file size.

Example: In Photoshop, make a "new" file and input your sizes and target (printer) resolution... either 240 (52.7 mb) or 360 ppi (118.7 mb) for Epson inkjet prints. This becomes your "target file size." This way, no matter what the film size, your target of a 16x20 print has enough resolution to print well. This is how I teach students to understand what they need for resolution when the printer (output) is known at the time of scanning. Otherwise, scan as large as you can afford to store and mange. :D

ignatiusjk
29-Aug-2008, 12:48
Is scanning at a certain ppi the same as putting in the print size you want? If I want a print 16x20 I would set the target size in pixels as opposed to print size. 7785 ppi x12800 ppi. Then I scan all my negs to that ppi setting.

Darryl Baird
29-Aug-2008, 13:11
no, it's not the same

by "target" I'm referring to a ppi output of the printing device (Epson is either 240 or 360 ppi output for low to high fidelity photo quality)

Upon deciding how big to print, you multiply the print dimensions by the ppi (resolution per inch) to determine file size or (your ppi method) whatever the needed pixel count in each direction (ppi). For the good Epson setting (240), try 3840 X 4800 ppi or the higher quality (360) would be 5760 X 7200 ppi.

your example would produce a larger (good) print of 32.4 X 53.3 inches

I use the "new file" command in Photoshop to perform these calculations... a built-in calculator... I'm no math genius, which others might demonstrate here shortly;-)


Is scanning at a certain ppi the same as putting in the print size you want? If I want a print 16x20 I would set the target size in pixels as opposed to print size. 7785 ppi x12800 ppi. Then I scan all my negs to that ppi setting.

Frank Petronio
29-Aug-2008, 13:15
It's the quantity of pixels that counts. 1200 pixels per inch at 4x5 inches = 300 pixels per inch at 16 x 20 inches.

In terms of using Epson Scan software, set the crop on the film to be scanned and just scan it at 2400 pixels per inch and have the automated exposure set the values. Either 48-bit color or 16-bit grey. Turn all the other crap off.

In Photoshop do a more accurate crop (set the size for the crop tool).

Make an auto curve adjustment so you have a solid black and a white white. Then fine tune the curve to suit your taste.

You can adjust color in the curves too.

Fine tune color with the Hue/Saturation adjuster.

(You can stop using Brightness/Contrast and Levels by the way.)

Clean up the dust with the clone and healing tools.

Do one pass of light Smart Sharpening, like 70% at a low radius, like 0.9 pixels.

Save this as your master file to archive.

With a working copy (use "Save As") do whatever Photoshop tricks you like.

Make sure you attach an Adobe RGB 1998 (for rgb) or Gamma 1.8 (for grey) profile.

Page Set up -- do printer and paper size.

Print - "Let Photoshop determine colors" turn off the auto printer crap. Select the printer profile.

You should easily make a beautiful 16x20 from even a mediocre 4x5 film.

mccormickstudio
29-Aug-2008, 14:18
Alan's advice is excellent. He said, "...Then do all of your adjustments at that resolution, and save the entire thing as a layered PSD". This will be your 'Master' file.
-P

Why keep the layers? I agree with editing at hires and then downsampling to print size, but why not flatten the image? My 8x10 negs often have 500-1000 layers of edit.

Kirk Gittings
29-Aug-2008, 14:21
1000 Layers? Why? How big are your files before flattening?

Preston
31-Aug-2008, 08:27
Craig wrote: "Why keep the layers? "

I keep the layers because I may want to make changes to a specific attribute in the future. I work with 8 bit files, and my psd files contain a maximum of 10 to 15 layers.

-P