Talk to me about Linux...

[Scott --]

Ok, I've finally had my fill of the blue screen of death with XP. Heard nothing but bad about Vista. Have reinstalled two versions of XP to no avail. I'm done. I'm wanting to learn about Linux - anyone have it? Whatcha think? Any info about program compatibility between the platforms? Will my install of CS2 work?

Thanks for any opinions,
Scott

[Marko]

Why not Unix? Of OS X variety, anything Adobe will work by default, no problems with compatibility, no blue screens... The only programs I've had freeze on me were Microsoft (surprise!), but on OS X they simply die quietly, in their own little sandbox and don't bring the entire system with them.

[Bruce Watson]

Ok, I've finally had my fill of the blue screen of death with XP. Heard nothing but bad about Vista. Have reinstalled two versions of XP to no avail. I'm done. I'm wanting to learn about Linux - anyone have it? Whatcha think? Any info about program compatibility between the platforms? Will my install of CS2 work?

I've did sysadmin work for windoze and Linux for years. What's next on my list? Mac. Why? Can't stand windoze anymore, and Adobe won't make a native port of Photoshop to Linux. MacOSX is running on top of FreeBSD, so you get a real OS out of the deal. What's not to like? Oh, yeah, Apple's iron grip on the hardware. But... that's one of the reasons the MacOS runs so well, and why all the software integrates so well. Now if I can just scrape up enough money...

If you are sure you want Linux, consider the Ubuntu distribution. (http://www.ubuntu.com/) I hear that it's a fairly nice and straightforward installation. Hardly anything you've learned about an OS from windoze applies here, so do your homework and research. If you can scale the learning curves for LF, you can scale the learning curves for Linux.

As far as program compatibility is concerned, OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org/) can read and write reliably from MSOffice. Thunderbird (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/thunderbird/) can import your email from whatever it is that Microsoft uses. Firefox (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/) can import your web browser bookmarks. There's a handful of ways you can share printers and files, most of which run software so that Linux can emulate a node on a Microsoft network. It's much easier to do that than to try to get 2000/XP/Vista to cooperate as you can imagine.

Good luck with it.

[Ole Tjugen]

I'm running two different versions of Vista on two different computers, and haven't had a single problem.

I have Ubuntu ready but not installed, as I haven't had problems with Vista. And I used to do sysadmin on SunOS 4.2.1, so UNIX/Linux doesn't scare me at all. It's just that Vista works...

[kmack]

Yes you can run Photoshop CS2 on Linux using the WINE windows emulator but I can not vouch for stability or usability.

You can use GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/) on Linux as a substitute for photoshop if you would be happy with 8 bit color support only. I use GIMP on a Mac because I can not justify the cost of Photoshop for my own simple needs.

Linux is rock solid on supported hardware. Lot of great eye candy available and some unique applications. If you wish to try a Linux distribution I would suggest Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com/) as a good distro for most hardware configurations. Linux is a different type of user experience, some people like it some don't.

That being said, you would be better off with a Mac if you want to do a lot of image processing with a minimum of dealing with software configuration/issues.

[Alan Davenport]

Scott,
An up-to-date (patched) install of XP is usually extremely robust. I haven't seen a BSOD in years, EXCEPT when I've had a hardware problem. Before you give up on XP for that reason, check your hardware thoroughly or have it checked. A weak power supply or bad RAM are two things that immediately come to mind.

[Bruce Watson]

Scott,
An up-to-date (patched) install of XP is usually extremely robust. I haven't seen a BSOD in years, EXCEPT when I've had a hardware problem. Before you give up on XP for that reason, check your hardware thoroughly or have it checked. A weak power supply or bad RAM are two things that immediately come to mind.

Very true. Most PCs don't use ECC RAM, so a one bit glitch can slam the PC to the carpet. I've had that happen with mine -- didn't even make it to the BSOD, just dropped like a rock and started a hard reboot. Did this every couple of hours until I finally got around to replacing memory sticks one-by-one. Once the right stick was replaced that particular problem went away.

Macs, BTW, use ECC RAM. One reason they cost more, and work better. I'm just sayin'...

[Richard Wall]

I'm currently running two Linux distros on on two different laptops, Ubuntu (Feisty Fawn v7.04) and Linux Mandrake (Now Mandriva). Ubuntu is by far the easiest distro I have ever set-up. In fact you can run it off a live CD first then click the install button if you decide you like it. All of my hardware was recognized and configured properly.
Here is the bad news. If you have non standard, or really new hardware, installation can be a problem. Also if you get a new piece of hardware Linux may not have drivers for it yet. There are also many things that the PC and Mac world take for granted that are either not working or not available on Linux, like Quicktime or Flash (Adobe just released flash for Linux, but its buggy as hell and crashes a lot). There are a lot of really great apps for Linux, but not a lot of great commercial apps like the CS Suite, MS Office, Final Cut or Premier, In Design etc... I have tried running some of these in WINE, but some work and some don't. I have Sun's Open Office, but that doesn't open .docx files.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I still have my Mac (main) and PC (backup). I would love to use nothing but Linux, but it's just not there yet. At least for the desktop. It rocks as a server.
I also agree with what others here have said and would bet you are experiencing a hardware failure, instead of a true windows problem. My XP install has been purring along with hardly a hiccup since I installed it more than a year ago. And, I have seen memory go bad after several years of use. I have also had a similar experience as you once when my heatsink fan began to fail and my CPU would slowly heat up then unexpectedly shut down. It drove me crazy until I figured it out.

Richard

[tmastran]

Ok, I've finally had my fill of the blue screen of death with XP. Heard nothing but bad about Vista. Have reinstalled two versions of XP to no avail. I'm done. I'm wanting to learn about Linux - anyone have it? Whatcha think? Any info about program compatibility between the platforms? Will my install of CS2 work?

Thanks for any opinions,
Scott

Scott,

Your CS2 will run just fine. I'm a windows developer and have also worked with Unix for twenty years. I use Ubuntu at home, on two machines. I have an Epson scanner connected via FireWire (USB will work to) driven by VueScan for Linux. It works great. For graphics you can use The Gimp, but I prefer Photoshop CS2. It's robust and fast on Ubuntu.

So the question is why Ubuntu over XP or Vista? The answer is subjective and you'll probably have to run a Linux distro for a while to really make an educated decision. For me, it's not a matter of cost. As a developer I have access to every Microsoft product. I choose Ubuntu for it's robustness, performance, and flexibility, on average machines. If you're not technically inclined it may not be for you, that's why I recommend trying it. Ubuntuforums.org is a great place for help should you need it.

I'm not a Microsoft vs Linux fanatic. I really like the openness of Linux and the wealth of software available for it. If something doesn't work the way I like it, it's easy enough to get the code and change it.

Ted

[Daniel_Buck]

I use Linux at work, I run Maya and Nuke in Linux (Fedora). However, I don't like gimp (and it's only 8 bit), so I still do my photoshop work in Windows.

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

My 0,02 euro to the discussion.
I've been using linux for 10 years now for all my computer needs.
Currently I'm using Fedora since I started with the Redhat distribution in '98 but the choice of the distribution is not a real issue to me. For example, in Germany, the SUSE distribution is highly regarded.

As far as digital image processing under linux is concerned, the simple things I do can all be done with the GIMP as soon as enough memory is available in the computer.
So far I've used, may be, less than 10% of the tools offered by the GIMP.
For example, the somewhat complex processing of tri-color images from 3 B&W negs/scans can be done with the GIMP without any problem.
The process is described in detail here by Marc Charvet (in French, sorry), to give you an idea of what can be done with the GIMP.
http://trichromie.free.fr/trichromie/index.php?2008/08/11/859-the-gimp-assemblage-par-la-mthode-des-calques
an automated and actually useable translation of the page into English is here:
http://66.102.9.104/translate_c?hl=fr&langpair=fr%7Cen&u=http://trichromie.free.fr/trichromie/index.php%3F2008/08/11/859-the-gimp-assemblage-par-la-mthode-des-calques&prev=/translate_s%3Fhl%3Dfr%26q%3Dhttp://trichromie.free.fr/trichromie/%26sl%3Den%26tl%3Dfr&usg=ALkJrhjAAeKuncV5_G7rHcsC-D4xpdTX5A
For those tri-color images a 8-bit depth as provided so far by the GIMP is enough... simply because 8 bit per layer is enough !

I'm otherwise happy to read that CS2 can run under the WINE emulator.

[Ash]

If you go to Linux, or *nix, then get XUbuntu, or the full Ubuntu.

I've had an old laptop that once had Win98 on I think, the only packages that worked successfully were Slackware, Mandrake/Mandriva, and Xubu'.

I have XUbuntu on that old laptop AND on a little Asus EEE (one of the slower, lower quality ones). It works with pretty much no flaws considering the low power of the machines.



Definitely check your hardware, BSOD's can be tripped by bad wiring even. Or sometimes the processor overheating. Pull the casing off your computer and clean out the wood-chips :)

[Ken Lee]

If all you wanted was eMail and web browsing, that would be another matter - but if your purpose is image editing, with the currently available best-of-breed tool set, then you will want either Mac or Windows to run Photoshop.

[Scott Knowles]

Lots of views and experience. What are you interests with computers, to run them or use the software? If the former, some flavor of Linux would work, but if the latter, try a Mac, for the reliability and ease of operation, lots of software and tools from or through Apple (check the download section), and terminal mode too.

I used and was a data/databse manager using main frames and Sun workstations/servers for about 20 years, the last two-plus shared with a PC interface. It's why I hate MS and Windows (one HD failure, crashes, frequent updates, and dumbdown interface and software), and it's why I've had a G5 for the same period as the PC with very few and rare small problems (no crashes and only lack of software backward compatibility). Yes, it's worth the money for the ease if that's your goal.

[Scott --]

Thanks for all the input, everyone. New kink has been added: The wife has suggested setting up the PC as a gaming station for the kids, and buying a laptop for my work/school. I'm still thinking UNIX or Ubuntu for the kids, porting through Wine if need be, and going with a Dell laptop so we can keep the wireless connectivity setup we already have. I'd prefer to go with a Mac at this point, but finances dictate otherwise.

FWIW, the PC had been running very reliably for a couple years, then just started throwing up the BSOD all the time. No hardware config change. Sounds like maybe some of the RAM died on me, 'cause the blue screen messages are always hardware related. Just have nothing to roll back to. And, XP is so fouled at this point that even it doesn't work reliably - all my menu options are in Polish, for instance.

I should be excited at the prospect of a new laptop toy, but somehow I'm not...

Thanks again,
Scott

[Ash]

Do you have any computer-savvy friends/relatives? Or else is there an independent computer store nearby?

Get somebody to open the computer up and replace the parts with the best you can get for the cheapest money. Maybe upgrade the processor, but not necessarily. Upgrade the ram, add a new HDD next to the old one, for virtual-ram or excess files - allowing Windows its own partition with enough free space to dump data. Upgrade the video card if it's gonna be used for games.

I'd avoid the bigger chain stores for this.

If you want something for PS work, make sure you have a scratch disk - for dumping all the huge amounts of image data to.

Rarely can you rely on a computer for more than 3 years.

[Brian Ellis]

I've been using XP for about 3-4 years and have never had the first problem with it (FWIW my wife has had Vista for almost two years and has never had a problem with it). I'm not a computer expert but it seems to me there's something wrong somewhere besides with XP if you've had all the problems you've mentioned here so I'm not sure another OS will help. You may very well have the same problems with it as you've had with XP until you figure out what the problem is because I don't think it's XP.

[Joseph O'Neil]

I am slowly converting over to Ubuntu. I like it very much, but there is a learning curve. However, my 10 year old daughter has been using Ubuntu for a year now and nada a problem.

Right now I run both Ubuntu and XP on different machines. For strickly business reasons, Vista is a waste of time for me.

As for image processing, I wish there was a native Photoshop linux version (correct me if I am wrong). For all the talk about it, I do find the GIMP difficult and NOT intitive to use. Your mileage may vary.

I bought two new machines the past year, with XP (special order) installed. If forced someday to go to Vista, I suspect what I will really do is go MAC and Ubuntu as most of the adobe software I used does work on the MAC.

joe

[Ken Lee]

One critical thing about the Mac, is that the OS supports the calibration and profiling of more than one monitor. If you ever need to use more than one monitor at the same time (which can be very helpful when doing a lot of work in front of the computer all day), this becomes a deal-breaker.

Windows, even Vista, was not designed with this in mind. Microsoft has published an "applet" which purports to fill this gap, but I was unable to get it to work on my XP machine when I tried it. As I have said often enough, the Mac is designed by design professionals, for design professionals.

At work in my day job as a software engineer, I have a Windows machine with 2 monitors. One of them is profiled, the other is... not.

As to Linux, I have no idea what tools are available, for monitor calibration or printer profiling - or support for embedded ICC profiles. Even if you overlook the limitation of GIMP to 8-bit color depth... without those tools, working digitally is at best, hit or miss.

[Jiri Vasina]

Ubuntu is IMO the best distribution for less computer-savvy users to try out (I use it both on server and workstation). There is also a variant, UbuntuStudio, aimed at multimedia users.

The most important drawback of using Linux is that GIMP (the most obvious choice for image editing) works only in 8-bit per channel. But there is also a version of this program called Cinepaint, which is modified to allow more than 8bits per channel. I don't have much experience with that one, though...

Also, there might be problems if you use a scanner as there might be no drivers. Precise calibration would probably be difficult too, all the calibration software is aimed at Windows or MacOS users. Printers usually work well (my Epson 1400 is connected to Ubuntu server).

Using Adobe Photoshop through WINE (kind of windows emulator which allows to run Windows programs inside a running Linux session) might be OK for smaller files, but I'm afraid for large files it would be slower.

If you don't trust your skills with Linux, have problems with scanner or want to use your Photoshop, try MacOS X. (My brother bought an iMac and is completely blown away with it).

[sparq]

Windows, even Vista, was not designed with this in mind. Microsoft has published an "applet" which purports to fill this gap, but I was unable to get it to work on my XP machine when I tried it. As I have said often enough, the Mac is designed by design professionals, for design professionals.

Ken, I have a Win XP laptop with a basic video card; and my two screens (LCD + external LCD) are both calibrated with Spyder2Express plus some tools that were needed for renaming color profiles. The system needs a reboot once in a while (the color profiles fail to get restored/updated after stand-by mode; this must be a flaw in the video driver), but this setup works fairly well for my basic requirements.

[Ken Lee]

So you have two separate profiles, one for each monitor, and you can maintain them independently ?

That's good to hear, and I am glad to stand corrected !

[Clyde Rogers]

Games? Running in wine, on top of Linux? On a few years old PC that has flaky hardware? I suppose it would give the kids an opportunity to share your frustration...no, please, just don't go there. The price of a wii or xbox will seem small compared to the years of harassment your children can (and should) inflict upon you as they reminisce about the gift of the broken PC.

If you don't want a new laptop, get the old computer fixed. Don't worry if it is too much to spend on an old computer, it still should be far cheaper than a replacement.

If it isn't far cheaper, then replace it. For a person with specific needs, or who wants a computer hobby (or who already knows a lot about Unix), Linux is great. For typical end users (this sounds like your situation), get a Mac or PC. My personal preference is a Mac.

Don't spend more than you're comfortable with, but don't get less than you need.

Later,

Clyde

[Jiri Vasina]

Clyde, Linux has made a great progress towards more user-friendly environment. It's not perfect, but you don't need deep understanding of the command line and other computer related areas. It certainly helps, but distributions like Ubuntu can be installed and used by most users.

But yes, for anyone who just wants the computer to work without anything else, Mac seems to be the best solution.

[Clyde Rogers]

Hi Jiri,

I agree that Linux has improved greatly, and agree that it is possible for a non-expert with specific needs to use a Linux system productively. If your needs are well supported by open source (and your distribution), you should be fine. If not, an ordinary user might just run into a brick wall.

As nice as the Gimp is, I'd much rather use PhotoShop, and I would not be even slightly interested in running it under Wine (it exhibits some strange behaviors there, and seems poorly tested). Games under Wine seem to have low frame rates, and often require bizzare video configuration options to achieve them. Hobbyist territory.

For a general-purpose internet/utility system with both some gaps and some outstanding applications, Linux is certainly a system worth considering, even for an ordinary user. It just doesn't sound good to me for what Scott is talking about.

Until later,

Clyde

[Jiri Vasina]

Yes Clyde, I also think Gimp is not on par with Photoshop. It might be in the hobby-photographer (advanced amateur) territory in a few years, but not now. Especially if it will support 16bit per channel (or the Cinepaint version)...

[sparq]

Only geeks torture themselves by running Linux on desktop. The rest of us leave Linux for servers and enjoy the comfort of Win/OSX (office) desktop apps. ;)

If you see BSOD a lot, chances are it is the (exotic?) HW giving you trouble, and Linux won't be of much help then. Sometimes good cleaning of your winstallation helps. If you can not stand windows any more, get OSX.

[Kuzano]

So, I will only add my points simply:

Regarding BSOD's:
I have been working on PCs and software for 15 years. I will say that the incidence of BSOD's I have seen on the current mature and stable Windows XP, have only been due to sketchy hardware, RAM, and Hard Drives going south. They will all give months of BSOD's before failure. In addition, what some referred to as exotic hardware... special gaming video, over-clocking CPU's , etc. Rarely in this day is a BSOD coming solely from Windows XP until hardware flaws have corrupted it. My last personal BSOD's were on a laptop starting to have read/write failures about two months ago... The last time before that (and on any clients machines)..... Gosh, how long has it been? you need new hardware.

Regarding Linux/Unix and other Open Software systems:
Linux/Unix are too far outside the mainstream for average users who want to stay average users. I agree on using Unix/Linus often for servers, but it's purely Geek City. I have 2 linux systems and am strongly in favor of Ubuntu for various reasons. However, I NEVER would put a customer or client into those Operating Systems unless they had my skill level... Why?
I don't want to get the calls when someone has to go hunting for a fairly mainstream (windows-wise) driver for many mainstream components.
Linux/unix will force you into the fraternity of GEEKdom, or turn over lots of money to someone who is a veteran GEEK. I am!

Regarding the two best Windows choices at the moment IMO:
Windows XP with all the updates and patches including SP3. The support life of Windows XP is now extended to the year 2014 to cover the massive failings of Windows Vista in the market---particularly on less than duo and quad core processors and supporting hardware. Intel pushed the multi-core processors to market in order to allow Microsoft to get Vista to market. (Long and technical story).
The second option on windows (stand back from flames) is Windows 2000 Professional, which is lean and mean, and has support still. It's about 40% of the code lines of XP. It's rock solid, but I use it only on purpose built computers, that are never going to be used for media, gaming or on the Internet. If I were going to build a single purpose computer with the best OS platform for Photoshop, it would be on Windows 2000 Pro and not be hooked to the internet. This by that configuration would be relatively inexpensive for doing just that one job... Photoshop!

Regarding Vista.... :
Short and succinct.... There are only two types of Vista users. Those who absolutely hate the OS, and those who are going to learn to hate it in the very near future.

Regarding Apple/Mac
Probably your best choice from a reliability and imaging standpoint.

Regarding games on computers:
Just don't do IT! The game market is owned by dedicated gaming devices. And, as one person pointed out. If you try to use sketchy hardware, the $$$$ spent to make that machine run right with the exotic hardware required will involve a second mortgage on the homestead. My personal rule on gaming PC's.... I don't build em, and I don't let anyone put one on my workbench. Verbotten!

Regarding using laptops for work and photo editing:
Only if mobility is required. Laptops run hot and are designed to reduce performance of the processor down when they reach certain operating temperatures. My formula for using a laptop for production.... the end result on performance per dollar spent is about 50%. If you're not going to take it out of the house with great regularity, get the production value you spent the money for. No laptops unless travelling or taking to and from work/school every day.

The harsh reality is, that for the average computer user, who does not want to become intimately involved with computer hardware and software, the two choices in the real world are only offered by Microsoft and Apple. Everything else is just as much as a Crap Shoot as Windows and not compatible with the vast majority of other computers and software in the world.

[linuxpng]

Ok, I've finally had my fill of the blue screen of death with XP. Heard nothing but bad about Vista. Have reinstalled two versions of XP to no avail. I'm done. I'm wanting to learn about Linux - anyone have it? Whatcha think? Any info about program compatibility between the platforms? Will my install of CS2 work?

Thanks for any opinions,
Scott

I'll toss my 2 cents here since I'm a RHCE, IT professional, and PC enthusiast. Linux is great... If you like to tinker. OSX is great...If you and Steve Jobs see eye to eye on what you want to do with your PC.

XP is great...if it doesn't come preloaded on a machine and you install it yourself (and your company doesn't have crappy drivers)

Vista is...not bad. It's the first Windows OS I actually paid for.

In short, if you have an extra pc you could try out linux (or even try it in virtual pc for free from MS). There are strong sides to all the major ones. I will echo if you are trying unix that ubuntu or kubuntu (the kde desktop environment version) are the most polished. You'd need WINE in order to run photoshop natively or you could try GIMP. Although as nice as it is, I think you'd be disappointed in GIMP.

[Joseph O'Neil]

Yes Clyde, I also think Gimp is not on par with Photoshop. It might be in the hobby-photographer (advanced amateur) territory in a few years, but not now. Especially if it will support 16bit per channel (or the Cinepaint version)...

Not only is it not on par with Photoshop, IMO, it's not on par with Photoshop elements or Corel's Paint Shop Pro either (the later, IMO, a sadly overlooked program by those who do not need or cannot afford the full Photoshop.)

I tried using GIMP, I wish GIMP was better, I have GIMP loaded up on both Linux and XP, but man, I just don't take to it.

I think the best answer to the original question at the start of this thread is take a long hard look at a Mac and see if it fits the bill. In a similar situation, I came this close "" :) to buying a Mac, and may still some day.

I do NOT agree that Linux is in the realm of the "hobbyist" at all. I have two old laptops with dead batteries that wouldn't fetch $100 combined on fleabay. But loaded with linux (Ubuntu) and programs like Open Office, they are productive machines now, and my two children each use one.

So if my kids can take to linux, what's the matter with the rest of you? :) Seriously, if you have an "older machine" ( and what's that nowadays in computer terms, more than 10 seconds after you get home from the store? :( ), then Linux is a great way to turn an "outdated" machine into something very productive, and save the landfills.

[nelsonfotodotcom]

Scott - if this is an older desktop with a floppy drive installed; power it down; open the case; disconnect the cabling from the back of the floppy, all of it--power supply connection & data transfer.

Reboot. See if that doesn't help.

If not, move on to disconnect any modems you have installed in slots. Still BSOD? Remove the network card. Still BSOD? Pull any soundcards you have installed. If you still have issues, my advice would be to continue by disconnecting any CD/DVD drives installed. If more than one, disco the slaved unit first, then the master.

If the computer is still blue-screening, your PSU might be flaking out, or the RAM. At this point, other than swapping RAM with known-good RAM modules, yer looking at 80 to 90 bucks for a replacement PSU.

My experience with BSOD on other computers has been hardware, specifically floppy drives and fragged modems. I had a customer with a brand new Dell desktop begin BSOD and flat-out refusing to boot...the damned, cheap-ass modem card was toast and causing the problem. As this was a networked office, I just went through all machines pulling the crap modem cards so I didn't have to deal with it again. No need for modem cards! Voila!

Good luck. I do have some spare towers around, so if you think you have an idea which part is bad, i.e. the PSU, let me know. I might have one to fit your machine. Yours for shipping cost only if so.

C.

[CantikFotos]

Besides GIMP, you can also run Bibble on Linux.

http://bibblelabs.com/products/bibble/specs.html

[Kuzano]

Scott - if this is an older desktop with a floppy drive installed; power it down; open the case; disconnect the cabling from the back of the floppy, all of it--power supply connection & data transfer.

Reboot. See if that doesn't help.

If not, move on to disconnect any modems you have installed in slots. Still BSOD? Remove the network card. Still BSOD? Pull any soundcards you have installed. If you still have issues, my advice would be to continue by disconnecting any CD/DVD drives installed. If more than one, disco the slaved unit first, then the master.

If the computer is still blue-screening, your PSU might be flaking out, or the RAM. At this point, other than swapping RAM with known-good RAM modules, yer looking at 80 to 90 bucks for a replacement PSU.

My experience with BSOD on other computers has been hardware, specifically floppy drives and fragged modems. I had a customer with a brand new Dell desktop begin BSOD and flat-out refusing to boot...the damned, cheap-ass modem card was toast and causing the problem. As this was a networked office, I just went through all machines pulling the crap modem cards so I didn't have to deal with it again. No need for modem cards! Voila!

Good luck. I do have some spare towers around, so if you think you have an idea which part is bad, i.e. the PSU, let me know. I might have one to fit your machine. Yours for shipping cost only if so.

C.

This is excellent procedure for isolating bad hardware. The only thing I would do differently is to take everything external to the MB/CPU/RAM out of the equation except the hard drive. Unhook and unpower all the drives and pull all USB devices except KB/Mouse if USB.

When you boot the basic computer, if you no longer have BSOD's, then start hooking necessary items back in until you find the one that generates the BSOD (one at a time). As C. notes, don't even bother to put pieces back in that you are never going to use. Floppy disk media is totally unreliable in this day and age, so don't even bother to hook that back up. When's the last time you used a modem? Leave it out or disable it if it's integrated to the Mother Board (In the MB settings).

If you still have the BSOD's with the computer stripped like this, the problem is in the base computer. Then check RAM/PS/etc.

Not trying to steal anyones thunder here. It's just a different approach. It gets me to the heart of the problem with a few less steps sometimes.

Tech'ing computers is NOT rocket science. It's a mastery of Trouble Shooting, and every tech person has his/her own methods. Surprising to many folks, we don't have any real solid diagnostic equipment or tools. The best tech's are masters at isolating sources of problems and replacing the offending parts.

The difference between these two posts is that one of us takes the machine down one part at a time until the problem goes away, and the other tears the machine all the way down and builds it back up until the problem manifests.

Either way works.

[nelsonfotodotcom]

Kuzano's method is a good one. I generally work in a bass-ackward routine.

:)

But the point is to run the problem hardware out of Dodge, one way or another.

As for board-level diagnostics... testing for bad caps, etc., well, just always seemed pointless to me, even more so in these times when a new mainboard will cost less than 2 hours of tech to "diagnose" that one needs a new MB.

:)

Scott - let us know how it goes, eh?

Craig

[Scott --]

Everyone - thanks for all the input. Going to take a little while to absorb. Craig, thanks for the offer. Will let you know.

Progress report forthcoming...

[timparkin]

Scott,

Your CS2 will run just fine. I'm a windows developer and have also worked with Unix for twenty years. I use Ubuntu at home, on two machines. I have an Epson scanner connected via FireWire (USB will work to) driven by VueScan for Linux. It works great. For graphics you can use The Gimp, but I prefer Photoshop CS2. It's robust and fast on Ubuntu.

Ted

Don't expect Photoshop to work correctly on Linux - This will not happen for some time (and when it does happen, it will be geekville to setup correctly).

I work with Macs, Windows and Linux on a daily basis..

1) My personal computers are Mac's (a MacPro and a MacBookPro).. Nothing runs Adobe stuff better.

2) My work machines are all Ubuntu which is fine for browsing, email, office work and development. When I want to do software/web development on the mac, I install VMWare Fusion and run Ubuntu on the Mac

3) I run windows when I have to test that websites/software runs on it. I also use wndows for my Mapping software, Tide Previewer, GPS upload tool, etc. I run windows under VMWare Fusion on my MacBookPro.

One thing that might be of interest is that there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that Windows suffers from entropy. That is, over time a system will get slower and more unstable. Take a computer that has had windows on it for 2 years and then reinstall to a clean operating system and you will see things running a lot faster and a lot more stable..

Conclusion

Buy a macbookpro and get VMWare Fusion. Install Windows on VMWare Fusion.

Install Ubuntu on your old PC and also install windows on it (install windows first and then install Ubuntu). Boot to Ubuntu for most of your web browsing, email, documents, etc.

Buy a Wii!!

Tim

[tmastran]

Don't expect Photoshop to work correctly on Linux - This will not happen for some time (and when it does happen, it will be geekville to setup correctly).

I work with Macs, Windows and Linux on a daily basis..

1) My personal computers are Mac's (a MacPro and a MacBookPro).. Nothing runs Adobe stuff better.

2) My work machines are all Ubuntu which is fine for browsing, email, office work and development. When I want to do software/web development on the mac, I install VMWare Fusion and run Ubuntu on the Mac

3) I run windows when I have to test that websites/software runs on it. I also use wndows for my Mapping software, Tide Previewer, GPS upload tool, etc. I run windows under VMWare Fusion on my MacBookPro.

One thing that might be of interest is that there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that Windows suffers from entropy. That is, over time a system will get slower and more unstable. Take a computer that has had windows on it for 2 years and then reinstall to a clean operating system and you will see things running a lot faster and a lot more stable..

Conclusion

Buy a macbookpro and get VMWare Fusion. Install Windows on VMWare Fusion.

Install Ubuntu on your old PC and also install windows on it (install windows first and then install Ubuntu). Boot to Ubuntu for most of your web browsing, email, documents, etc.

Buy a Wii!!

Tim

My mistake. I running CS not CS2. And it does work perfectly.

[Huib]

Hi,

Some tid-bits to add:

- afaik no screen calibration solution supporting linux is available.
- Gimp in linux is only 8-bit, limited colormanagement (if)
- Linux drivers for your printer?
- Linux support for your scanner (if you don't like vuescan).
- running windows/photoshop inside linux: Virtualization is probably a better way to do this then using wine.
- dedicate hardware for your imageprocessing, no messing around with hardware, software and the internet after initial install/setup, this will even keep XP away from BSOD's, use another system for wordprocessing and surfing and all other stuff.
- get the kids a game console.

[Ken Lee]

See this article: Using Linux for Photography, Where We Stand (http://jcornuz.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/using-linux-for-photography-where-we-stand/)

[NiallPhoto]

I suggest you consider Mac before jumping in to Linux. It seems to me that the learning curve for Linux is not worth the effort. But it depends on how you want to use the computer. In my experience Linux requires a dedication that I'm not willing to invest.

[dh003i]

Hi,

Some tid-bits to add:

1. afaik no screen calibration solution supporting linux is available.
2. Gimp in linux is only 8-bit, limited colormanagement (if)
3. Linux drivers for your printer?
4. Linux support for your scanner (if you don't like vuescan).


1. There is the Argyll color management system in linux. Linux can use the Spyder2 colorimeter puck, which is available at reasonable prices on eBay.

2. There is a 16-bit GIMP plugin for UFraw for Linux. Krita, the KDE image program, supports bit-depths up to 32-bit. You can also purchase Light Crafts LightZone for Linux for $200. It is competitive with PhotoShop.

3. There are many good printer drivers available for Linux. I use an old OfficeJet K60. HP printers have the best Linux support. See linuxprinting.org

4. Epson scanners seem to have good Linux support.

In short, for Linux hardware, one should try to plan hardware purchases around Linux. If you already have hardware (which is common), then you need to do your research regarding your hardware, in particular scanners and printers.