digi print quality on canvas vs. paper

[Michael Roberts]

I recently had a 3rd party do some canvas prints using an Epson 9800 for me. Using the same image files I had previously printed on Lightjets, the canvas prints are much lower in contrast and lighter.

I'm wondering if this is simply the difference in media--canvas vs. paper?

Those of you who print on both--do you print from the same image files or do you (I) need to adjust the contrast and/or brightness when printing on different media?

Thanks.

[Bruce Watson]

I recently had a 3rd party do some canvas prints using an Epson 9800 for me. Using the same image files I had previously printed on Lightjets, the canvas prints are much lower in contrast and lighter.

I'm wondering if this is simply the difference in media--canvas vs. paper?

Those of you who print on both--do you print from the same image files or do you (I) need to adjust the contrast and/or brightness when printing on different media?

Thanks.

You'll hate this, but... it depends. I've had some images that would not cooperate with anything. I had to adjust them when printing a different size on the same substrate. On different substrates, etc. And some that haven't needed that level of care.

But in general, one should manage the image for the final print, both substrate and size. Just like we used to do in the darkroom.

[Michael Roberts]

Thanks Bruce. Anybody else with any similar experience?

[Peter Mounier]

Canvas and paper can look the same, but they don't necessarily print with the same adjustments. If your intention was to match the second print to the first one, you should have given the second printer something to compare and match to. The best printer in the world can't match a print to another print that he/she doesn't have to look at, except possibly with dumb luck.
Peter

[Gordon Moat]

Even various papers can affect the final printed image. There are many variables. One is tooth or surface finish, which in a canvas to paper comparison is obvious. The other often considered variables are whiteness and brightness. Many papers can be brighter than others, and the image will appear differently without adjustments. Ideally you would know the whiteness and brigthness values of your printing surface, and then adjust accordingly. A common mistake is to assume your white point corresponds to a 100 brightness paper, since those papers are rarely used (90 or less more common with inkjet). Whiteness is a different adjustment, though an easy way to consider this is that brighter papers might be less white due to optical brightening agents added to the paper.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

[bob carnie]

I am printing wet prints lambda, inkjet, coated and uncoated, and I do find that I have to adjust contrast density for different end medias.
testing to print is usually required before we go to final, making actions in PS could work if you are continually working to the same different medias from one file.

hope this makes sense.

[Lenny Eiger]

Those of you who print on both--do you print from the same image files or do you (I) need to adjust the contrast and/or brightness when printing on different media?

Thanks.

You always need to adjust. You even need to adjust if you are printing on the same media on a different day. There is no such thing as matching your monitor, not exactly. Certainly not matching someone else's monitor. All this calibration gets one in the ballpark, not necessarily right on target.

Lenny

[Michael Roberts]

Thanks everyone; I very much appreciate your insights/experiences.

As you might expect, some of the images look better than expected, some as expected, some worse.

Looks like I will need to follow my usual (before this experience) practice of printing proofs before doing finals....

Cheers,
Michael

[ViewIIguy]

Speaking from a professionals stand-point, canvas is a pain in the ass to print on. We're just about to stop offering it because of how much more waste we encounter. We use an Epson 9600 here with epsons canvas and just about no two prints look the same, even when it comes to making copies of the same print. I'm sure there are more qualified people when it comes to printing on canvas, but we have no other problems with the watercolor paper and standard papers we use. In general the contrast is usually the thing to suffer most, but the colors shift a lot too.

Hope you can find a good place to get prints, or get it figured out yourself!

-Will

[Bill L.]

I print paper prints using Enhance Matte on a 4800, and Epson Piezo Pro Matte Canvas on a 9800. In general, the contrast is lower on the canvas, and the blacks are not as black. Epson's color profile for it (available at their website) is pretty good for soft proofing, once you get over the fact that you are just not going to get deep dark blacks (early on I tried to overcompensate). In exchange for that, however, the texture of the canvas and the presentation as a gallery wrap can be spectacular for the right landscape. Try downloading the profile and adjusting your file in soft-proof before sending it back to the printer.

Cheers!
Bill

[Michael Roberts]

Thanks Will. I've noticed the same--same file, two different prints with different color intensities. I assumed the operator might not be keeping up with the ink levels, but your experience suggests it might just be differences in the canvas--perhaps absorption rates(?).

Thanks Bill, I have downloaded the profile and will try soft-proofing.
-Michael

[pherold]

Canvas media can be particularly hard to measure when building a profile
When making an ICC profile for any canvas material, the measurement of the target should be done with a spectrophotometer with some kind of polarizing filter. We use GretagMacbeth's SpectraScan tables for this purpose here. There is so much light defraction off of that uneven surface that measurements can show a lighter reading than the color that is actually there. And then the profile ends up printing lighter on the darker sections also. Apparently the polarizing filter limits all that stray light so that the measurement is more true.

So I would suggest using the Epson profile, or a profile made by someone who has access to a SpectraScan table.

-Patrick Herold

[Charles]

Speaking from a professionals stand-point, canvas is a pain in the ass to print on. We're just about to stop offering it because of how much more waste we encounter. We use an Epson 9600 here with epsons canvas and just about no two prints look the same, even when it comes to making copies of the same print. I'm sure there are more qualified people when it comes to printing on canvas, but we have no other problems with the watercolor paper and standard papers we use. In general the contrast is usually the thing to suffer most, but the colors shift a lot too.

Hope you can find a good place to get prints, or get it figured out yourself!

-Will

I use Breathing Color Chromatta Matte canvas and I use the same print files time after time with no color shifts or hassles. I spray the printed canvas with Breathing Color giclee varnish and I find the gloss varnish provides deeper blacks than the matte varnish.

[raucousimages]

Big +1 vote for Breathing color canvas. Prints like paper. Use PK ink. Will not crack like Epson when doing Gallery Wrap mounting. Great prices. Great customer service.