Wide Wide Angle Lenses for 5X7 format

[audioexcels]

One thing that is a bit troubling going up in format size is the lack of wide angles available, though 8X10 seems to have more available in spite some of the choices being super large pieces of glass.

IMHO, the only lenses I see truly fit to perform well with movements on this format is the 90XL and perhaps the 110XL. Beyond this, there's the 115/6.8, and the 120/8's.

Are these the only lenses that have enough spare IC for generous movements and does anyone have two pictures showing the difference of the 90 vs. a 120 lens on 5X7 film?

Thanks!

[Ole Tjugen]

The Schneider Super Angulon 72/5.6 XL is probably the widest modern lens to cover 5x7". It provides at least some movements, but "generous movements" - that depends on what you mean by "generous".

I use a plain old 90/8 SA quite a lot, and 121/8 SA, 120/6.8 Angulon, 165/6.8 Angulon, but I don't have any shots taken with different focal lengths of the same scene.

[audioexcels]

The Schneider Super Angulon 72/5.6 XL is probably the widest modern lens to cover 5x7". It provides at least some movements, but "generous movements" - that depends on what you mean by "generous".

I use a plain old 90/8 SA quite a lot, and 121/8 SA, 120/6.8 Angulon, 165/6.8 Angulon, but I don't have any shots taken with different focal lengths of the same scene.

Thanks Ole.

By generous movements, I refer to being able to use the lens for say, architecture or tight spots, even on tight landscape shots to emphasize not just the forground, but also get a lot of the ocean and landscape sections around it into the frame.

How significant is the difference between a 90mm focal length and a 120 focal length on the format?

[Ole Tjugen]

This one was shot with a 90/8 SA:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1076/812201524_b0f83f97fe.jpg

If you imagine a 9x12cm crop of this 13x18cm picture, that's just about what a 120mm would have given.

Remember that the 90mm is about the same as the short side of a 9x12cm, and a 120mm is just a little bit short of the short side of a 13x18cm!

[sanking]

Ole,

That is a beautiful image. Very dramatic looking landscape.

Sandy King



This one was shot with a 90/8 SA:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1076/812201524_b0f83f97fe.jpg

If you imagine a 9x12cm crop of this 13x18cm picture, that's just about what a 120mm would have given.

Remember that the 90mm is about the same as the short side of a 9x12cm, and a 120mm is just a little bit short of the short side of a 13x18cm!

[Ole Tjugen]

Sandy, the landscapes around here are made for ultrawides. I use a 15mm and a 21mm on 35m cameras, and 47 and 65mm on 4x5"...

[Carsten Wolff]

Among the (to me) well performing wide angle 5x7 classics are the ex. W A Raptar (Mine is a 103.7mm/f12.5, but I think the more common one is the 108mm version) and the (coated) Cooke VIIb 108mm/f6.5. The Cooke is probably sometimes easier to use, as it is brighter on the screen. Both seem to have well over 250mm IC and are also small and sharp.

[Eric Woodbury]

The 72mm. What a wonderful lens. Here's an example.

[Jan Pedersen]

Eric, after looking at your photo i agree. That is just a wonderful example.
Lens or not, nice work.

[Kirk Fry]

A 111 mm Protar V would work fine. (I think they are marked in half plate dimensions which I can't remember. K (6 by 8 ish)

[audioexcels]

Thanks for the oldies, but goodies to add to my list. Anything remotely close to the 72XL, but at a much lower cost?...or something in the range of say 72-90 without it being something costly/rare?

Beautiful shots Ole and Eric!!!

[Wimpler]

I have a Hugo Meyer & Co - Goerlitz Weiwinkel-Aristostigmat 120mm f9. It is tiny and covers 5x7 with movements.

See http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/meyerc/p26.html

[Ole Tjugen]

How about an Angulon 90mm f:6.8?

http://www.bruraholo.no/Cameras/Angulon/Angulon_1951_1.jpg

Soft corners, but quite sharp enough for contact prints.

[Scott Davis]

110mm (4 3/8") Dagor - It covers 5x7 with movement. Probably covers 6 1/2 x 8 1/2 with minimal movement. I don't have a photo online that I can think of where I used that lens, but I'll look around and post one if I can find one.

[Ernest Purdum]

B&L made a 3 3/8" (86mm) Ser. V Protar. This was listed as covering 1/2-plate wide open and 5X7 stopped down. O.K., f18 isn't all that wide open. These are so tiny that front-mounting is quite practical. They were available in Volute shutter, but the barrel mount is more common.

Regarding rarity, I'm sure they more than qualify for eBay "Rare", which seems to meen no more than three of the same object up today. Some patience, though, would probably turn one up.

[Rodney Polden]

The f8 90mm Nikkor-SW gives a circle of 235mm I believe, so that allows a little room for movements. Equivalent to a 19mm on 35mm. They show up now and then for $500-600. Even the older SA's will cover 5x7, but only just.

[Andrew ren]

I have a 105/8 fujinon. it's quite sharp.

Andrew

[sparq]

I use fujinon NSW 8/90, it covers but there's almost no room for movements (ic 216mm).

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2207/2251132825_4ed258bc0c.jpg

[Kevin Crisp]

My normal somewhat wide is a 180 Symmar-S. Wider is a 150 G Claron which covers with significant room for movement. (I disagree with those who say it "just covers.") I have the 110 Schneider which is useful for lots of formats and covers with plenty of room for movement. The 90mm Nikkor f:8 lens does cover with a little room for movement. The wide angle protars are relatively inexpensive though some work better than others.

[audioexcels]

My normal somewhat wide is a 180 Symmar-S. Wider is a 150 G Claron which covers with significant room for movement. (I disagree with those who say it "just covers.") I have the 110 Schneider which is useful for lots of formats and covers with plenty of room for movement. The 90mm Nikkor f:8 lens does cover with a little room for movement. The wide angle protars are relatively inexpensive though some work better than others.

Kevin and others that have worked with the 90/8 Nikkor or other 90 F4.5-5.6 lenses, how much in the way of movements do you get and do you find the lens limited by how you use it. In other words, do you find your shooting style would prefer to have more movements with the lens or have you been just fine on the most part with its limited amount of movement potential?

[Kevin Crisp]

I use the 110 HM Schneider much more often than the 90 mm f:8 Nikkor, and it has inches of room. I used 1/2" to 3/4" of rise with the Nikkor and it was fine, my guess is that anything beyond that might be asking for it. I am developing film from a trip this weekend and have a film holder with just one sheet used so I will shoot a test and find out.

[audioexcels]

I use the 110 HM Schneider much more often than the 90 mm f:8 Nikkor, and it has inches of room. I used 1/2" to 3/4" of rise with the Nikkor and it was fine, my guess is that anything beyond that might be asking for it. I am developing film from a trip this weekend and have a film holder with just one sheet used so I will shoot a test and find out.

That would be fantastic Kevin.

Thanks a lot and that 110 HM is a very fine piece of glass.

[archivue]

110 HM ?
110 XL or 120 HM !

By the way, a friend of mine will probably sell a 72XL, and A 150XL both with center filter... he's living in france.

[audioexcels]

110 HM ?
110 XL or 120 HM !

By the way, a friend of mine will probably sell a 72XL, and A 150XL both with center filter... he's living in france.

I sent off my 72XL in new condition for $900 to Europe. Does it happen to be mine he is selling?:) I'd be interested in it depending on what he is asking. And interested in the 150XL. PM me please.

I think it is the 120 HM he was referring to though he has the 110XL, so maybe it was the 110XL.

[john wilton]

110mm (4 3/8") Dagor - It covers 5x7 with movement.

Not my experience...the first attached shot (at f/45) with a CP Goerz Berlin 110mm f/7.7 (marked in French system, max 3/5) Doppel-Anastigmat Serie III was a quickie coverage test when I got the lens. Way short, and the really old 7.7 lenses are said to have better coverage.

I find that I have to be very careful with corners with a similar vintage 120mm Dopp-Anastigmat Serie III marked in US system, max 3 (f/6.8?). It covers but any error in centering gives vignetted corners: second shot, f/32.

Wollensak Ex WA 109mm has plenty of coverage.

[audioexcels]

Not my experience...the first attached shot (at f/45) with a CP Goerz Berlin 110mm f/7.7 (marked in French system, max 3/5) Doppel-Anastigmat Serie III was a quickie coverage test when I got the lens. Way short, and the really old 7.7 lenses are said to have better coverage.

I find that I have to be very careful with corners with a similar vintage 120mm Dopp-Anastigmat Serie III marked in US system, max 3 (f/6.8?). It covers but any error in centering gives vignetted corners: second shot, f/32.

Wollensak Ex WA 109mm has plenty of coverage.

I like this focal length-110mm or so range. Looks like it gets quite a bit into the frame. I wish the 90's had more coverage or the 90XL wasn't insanely huge on front thread.

Funny how this thread had a number of people agreeing about how wide lenses look strange on 8X10 format, and though it is a squarer format, it's not like we're comparing 810 to 410 when comparing 810 to 57. It's obvious that the second shot would be a fine contact print, and the first would even make a fine contact print. Heck, even the 72XL shot would make a great one!

How well does the Wollensak do with color film emulsions? I'm sure it is plenty sharp enough with b/w.

[Chuck Pere]

The 4 3/8" Dagor is a wide angle version. It will cover 100 deg at f45 and is listed to cover 5x7 at f45. It's an f8 lens not f6.8. Probably now sells near the price of a 110 XL.

[john wilton]

This one was shot with a 90/8 SA:

Ole, your Angulon and SA shots got me thinking. I tried my Wolly 4x5 ExWA (12.5/89mm) and 100mm WF Ektar. Stopped down, both miss the corners by about 1/2" (radial). I had assumed that insufficient bellows compression would prevent using my SA-type. But my new bellows have worked in, and I can reach infinity focus. I had thought I'd need to make a recessed board, and use the SA in barrel because the throat of my Korona is so small that a shutter wouldn't fit. I'm excited!

[Carsten Wolff]

I've shot the absolutely tiny 4 3/8" f8 W.A. Dagor on 5x7 and it covered more than fine. I can't remember whether I had a coated one, or not (I think I did), but I sold it because I didn't like the colors I got. The coated 103.7mm ex W.A. Raptar that I have OTOH is neutral and seems sharp enough for enlargements (I havent gone past 20x24" yet though), but has a little bit of focus-shift stopped down. The 108mm Cooke is nice all round (and weighs a third of the 110XL to boot). I have used both the 75mm Nikkor SW and the 90mm/f6.8 Grandagon-N in 5x7 but neither give you huge amounts of space for swing or shift. The 75mm only works straight on basically; nice lens though (and it shares its center-filter with the Grandagon).