Low contrast scenes

[timbo10ca]

Hello all:

I am wondering how people get such a large tonal range in flat/low contrast scenes, and in scenes where the areas of bright highlight and dark shadow are too small to take a meter reading from. Do you place a grey card in the scene, select you exposure based on that, or a stop or 2 below (to compensate for increased development time), then really increase development? Or do you photograph it flat then use a high paper grade? I don't see how a high paper grade would work, because so much detail is lost in the shadows and highlights when that is done, and the photos I've seen have lost no detail at all. A number of examples that stick out in my head are the photos that many have done of trailside leaves (e.g. front cover of AA's "The Print", Sexton's "Agave Detail"). JBrunner has a great example in his "Botanicals" gallery. Jason! How you do dat!? :D

Thanks,
Tim

[Ron Marshall]

I use the zone system. I meter the darkest and lightest areas that I want to have detail in then decide how I will expose and develop the neg. If I will be doing N-2 or compensating development I will increase the exposure accordingly. For plus development I don't decrease exposure. The only times I have done plus development was shooting snow in overcast weather; there was so much light reflected from the snow that the tonal range was only three stops.

Try shooting a few negs of one scene and giving them different development to get more of a feel for the process.

Good luck!

[Steve Sherman]

Hello all:

I am wondering how people get such a large tonal range in flat/low contrast scenes, and in scenes where the areas of bright highlight and dark shadow are too small to take a meter reading from.

At the risk of banging my head against the wall, again, try a Reduced Agitation method of negative development.

Micro contrast can be expanded or contracted beyond any other means the wet process can offer. When done properly the process has no rival.

[timbo10ca]

At the risk of banging my head against the wall, again, try a Reduced Agitation method of negative development.

Micro contrast can be expanded or contracted beyond any other means the wet process can offer. When done properly the process has no rival.

Great- I'll give it a try. Would you suggest a dilute developer like HC-110 dilution H then, or stick with my usual one? I hope your head doesn't hurt- have you just answered this question recently? Sorry if you have... :o

Thanks,
Tim

[timbo10ca]

I use the zone system. I meter the darkest and lightest areas that I want to have detail in then decide how I will expose and develop the neg. If I will be doing N-2 or compensating development I will increase the exposure accordingly. For plus development I don't decrease exposure. The only times I have done plus development was shooting snow in overcast weather; there was so much light reflected from the snow that the tonal range was only three stops.

Try shooting a few negs of one scene and giving them different development to get more of a feel for the process.

Good luck!

This is a little harder to wrap my mind around- How do you meter a thin line like the edge of a leaf, etc (ie, if it was lighter than the body of the leaf and you wanted it to stand out by a couple of zones). I never would have thought minus development for a low contrast scene. Maybe your answer is strictly to the 2nd half of my question?

Tim

[Ron Marshall]

This is a little harder to wrap my mind around- How do you meter a thin line like the edge of a leaf, etc (ie, if it was lighter than the body of the leaf and you wanted it to stand out by a couple of zones). I never would have thought minus development for a low contrast scene. Maybe your answer is strictly to the 2nd half of my question?

Tim

I used plus development for the low contrast scene.

For things such as leaf edges you have to learn by trial and error, or an educated guess from other things in the scene. Most leaves are waxy and if lit by direct sunlight will meter around EV 17, and will be too bright to have any detail. If you do need detail there for some reason, try turning the leaf so that the front of the leaf reflects the light and then meter off of that.

[Steve Sherman]

Great- I'll give it a try. Would you suggest a dilute developer like HC-110 dilution H then, or stick with my usual one?
Thanks,
Tim

There are many different developers, HC 110 happens to have a higher concentration of sodium sulfite which is a preservative. Sulfite also promotes silver migration which goes against the effect you are after.

I would suggest a pyro type developer for many reasons, if not pyro then Rodinal has a good track record with Reduced Agitation development.

The process takes a bit to master and is time consuming thus has not become a mainstream process. But make no mistake and let no one tell you otherwise, for what you are trying to accomplish there is no method, material or technique which can produce the results this technique can.

Do a search on the forums about the process or reference two articles I wrote for View Camera Magazine a few years back.

Cheers!

[timbo10ca]

There are many different developers, HC 110 happens to have a higher concentration of sodium sulfite which is a preservative. Sulfite also promotes silver migration which goes against the effect you are after.

I would suggest a pyro type developer for many reasons, if not pyro then Rodinal has a good track record with Reduced Agitation development.

The process takes a bit to master and is time consuming thus has not become a mainstream process. But make no mistake and let no one tell you otherwise, for what you are trying to accomplish there is no method, material or technique which can produce the results this technique can.

Do a search on the forums about the process or reference two articles I wrote for View Camera Magazine a few years back.

Cheers!

Thanks Steve- I will look for your articles- unfortunately I only subscribed to the magazine a couple years ago- I will check on the site though, and search here.

As fate would have it, I decided I didn't like HC-110 for LF and am now in the process of testing Pyrocat HD 1:1:100 *and* Rodinal 1:50. I will get my basic technique down, then venture into these low contrast scenes....

Tim

[timbo10ca]

I used plus development for the low contrast scene.

For things such as leaf edges you have to learn by trial and error, or an educated guess from other things in the scene. Most leaves are waxy and if lit by direct sunlight will meter around EV 17, and will be too bright to have any detail. If you do need detail there for some reason, try turning the leaf so that the front of the leaf reflects the light and then meter off of that.

Thanks for your observations Ron- I will keep this in mind.

Tim

[Brian Ellis]

"I am wondering how people get such a large tonal range in flat/low contrast scenes . . . "

By increasing development time, perhaps coupled with a higher contrast filter when making the print with variable contrast paper.

" . . . and in scenes where the areas of bright highlight and dark shadow are too small to take a meter reading from."

If you can't meter the areas of the scene on which you'd normally base your exposure and development time you either make an educated guess (e.g. working off the sunny 16 rule) or perhaps try to find something else in the area that's lit the same way as the areas in question and meter it. There is no developer, and no method of development, that's going to help you if you can't meter the subject you want to meter.

[timbo10ca]

True- I was just wondering if people generally metered what the main "tone" was going to be and place it there, rather than the shadows, and guess at development for the highlights. Recreating the shadow and highlight using your equipment is a solution I knew in the back of my mind, but needed to be reminded of it.

Thanks,
Tim