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QT Luong
20-Jun-2008, 22:38
I am very pleased to announce that Kirk Gittings has joined the LF Forum moderation team consisting of Ralph Barker, Tom Westbrook, Neil Poulsen (and occasionally myself). I am sure you are all familiar with Kirk, thanks to his frequent contributions here. With his experience, multi-faced accomplishments, and high standing in the photography world, Kirk does not need an introduction from me, so I'll leave it to him to write a bit about himself if he wishes.

davidb
20-Jun-2008, 22:47
A very good decision.

Greg Lockrey
20-Jun-2008, 22:50
Congratulations Kirk!

Oren Grad
20-Jun-2008, 22:50
A good opportunity to say thanks to all the moderators, and welcome and thanks to Kirk for taking on this responsibility. The forum is as useful and enjoyable as it is in large part because of all of your good work. Much appreciated!

Kirk Gittings
21-Jun-2008, 00:28
Thanks all. I hope to make a contribution towards civility. In the fine tradition of my late friend, Ted Harris, and the other moderators. This is such a remarkable resource that it (all the contributers) should be treated with respect.

David A. Goldfarb
21-Jun-2008, 04:06
Excellent choice, Tuan. Good luck, Kirk!

jnanian
21-Jun-2008, 04:37
great decision!

Ole Tjugen
21-Jun-2008, 04:48
I agree; an excellent choise.

Walter Calahan
21-Jun-2008, 05:50
Kirk, happy reading. Grin.

bob carnie
21-Jun-2008, 05:53
When I first joined this forum, I started to get a respect for K Gittings.
I think he is a great choice.

Bruce Watson
21-Jun-2008, 06:20
Excellent choice. Thanks to all the moderators, and thanks to Kirk for taking up this challenge.

snuck
21-Jun-2008, 06:42
Awesome. He's been a good soul..

Joel Brown
21-Jun-2008, 06:57
A great step forward.

www.joelbrownphotography.com

BarryS
21-Jun-2008, 07:32
I agree--Kirk is an excellent choice and it's been clear that the board needs additional mods--especially with all the spamming lately. I'd love to see another mod or two added--how about someone in a different time zone? I think Ole would be another good choice. Anyway, thanks Kirk for taking this on.

David Karp
21-Jun-2008, 08:19
A fine choice. Thanks to Tuan for this decision, and to Kirk for agreeing to take this on.

Ron Marshall
21-Jun-2008, 08:55
Thanks Kirk for your contribution.

Mike Boden
21-Jun-2008, 10:16
Congratulations, Kirk.

Peter Collins
21-Jun-2008, 10:20
A very hearty thank you to all the moderators. This is a great place!

Kirk Keyes
21-Jun-2008, 11:25
Thanks, Kirk!

Kirk

jetcode
21-Jun-2008, 12:04
Kirk I can't tell if this is an honor or a liability ... but to be honest I couldn't think of a more qualified candidate ...

domenico Foschi
21-Jun-2008, 12:44
That will a good distraction from long Photoshop sessions.
Congratulations!

Mark Sawyer
21-Jun-2008, 18:04
I'll add my thanks and congratulations to Kirk, and to all who make the forum such a special resource!

Harley Goldman
21-Jun-2008, 18:27
Great choice! Kirk, thanks for taking it on.

Frank Bagbey
21-Jun-2008, 20:18
Kirk earns a great deal of respect. He will be a great moderator.

Frank Petronio
21-Jun-2008, 23:19
Great choice too

brad martin
22-Jun-2008, 00:23
The regiment agrees.......

Brian K
22-Jun-2008, 07:42
Great choice, and I'm sure Kirk will regret it the first time he gets dragged into moderating a juvenile argument in the lounge!

Merg Ross
22-Jun-2008, 07:49
An excellent choice, congratulations Kirk! And, thanks to the other moderators for a fine job done over the years.

Steve Sherman
22-Jun-2008, 08:07
Great addition to the best forum.

Congrats Kirk

Jim Galli
22-Jun-2008, 08:18
A big Thanks! to Kirk and all the other mods for a thankless job.

chris_4622
22-Jun-2008, 09:45
Thanks, Kirk. And to Tuan for this site and the other moderators for making this a great place to learn and share.

Kirk Gittings
23-Jun-2008, 07:39
I will try my best. If you have questions about any of my actions or lack thereof, email me.

John Sarsgard
23-Jun-2008, 10:41
This site has been one of the most useful, and most civil, photography sites for a very long time. I thank Q-T for getting it started, and keeping it going all these years. The moderators have been splendid. Kirk, along with all the others, I appreciate your taking this on. I know of no one better qualified.

ASRafferty
23-Jun-2008, 12:39
I will try my best. If you have questions about any of my actions or lack thereof, email me.

That's a very generous offer, Kirk, and I just hope all here appreciate what you've taken on in that regard! I don't think anyone understands the degree of pressure that's brought to bear on you all nearly every day if they haven't been a Moderator (or lived with one -- I'll be glad to host the first support group meeting at my house!). You're quite entitled to the thanks and congratulations you're getting here.

So, thanks for lending your judgment and reason to this effort; it's really testimony to the importance of the forum that you and the other mods volunteer to go through what you do.

Armin Seeholzer
23-Jun-2008, 14:01
Yes Kirk is the right man for the job. Thanks for your work!

Armin

Ole Tjugen
23-Jun-2008, 14:51
... I don't think anyone understands the degree of pressure that's brought to bear on you all nearly every day if they haven't been a Moderator (or lived with one -- I'll be glad to host the first support group meeting at my house!). ...

I'll be there - and I have a feeling my wife would like a support group for moderator's spouses!

David A. Goldfarb
23-Jun-2008, 16:31
I'll be there - and I have a feeling my wife would like a support group for moderator's spouses!

I think we'll all need a serious course of single-malt group therapy.

ASRafferty
23-Jun-2008, 16:52
Well, I've heard worse ideas than getting all the mods together from the "sister" forums to compare notes... though I don't see it happening without the ladies' auxiliary and SOME kind of "spirits" on hand. ;)

Bill_1856
24-Jun-2008, 09:14
Well I don't think that you'd even need moderators if you just eliminated using George Carlin's "7-words" when referring to other posters. In fact, considering the subject matter of the forum, you could probably even allow "tits" without too much controversy.
God bless you George Carlin -- RIP.

Eric Biggerstaff
24-Jun-2008, 09:54
Great choice!

Thanks for taking this on Kirk.

Preston
25-Jun-2008, 20:09
Yes! Thanks Kirk! And thanks also to all the moderators for their efforts!

-PB

Michael T. Murphy
25-Jun-2008, 20:49
Thank you Kirk for taking on this responsibility.

Your participation will certainly help ensure the continued quality of this site, and indeded raise it somewhat. I have to say that I have agreed with you in almost all of your posts - very well reasoned and balanced.

Thank you again.

Kirk Gittings
25-Jun-2008, 21:00
Thanks Michael, stay tuned for more.....

Kirk Gittings
1-Jul-2008, 20:52
My dear wife stumbled upon this thread after Googling my name.........after reading all this glowing praise, she wondered if she was married to the same person!

Ralph Barker
1-Jul-2008, 22:34
My dear wife stumbled upon this thread after Googling my name.........after reading all this glowing praise, she wondered if she was married to the same person!

(Chuckle)

David A. Goldfarb
1-Jul-2008, 22:46
Give it time. People will be comparing you to Hitler eventually.

ASRafferty
2-Jul-2008, 03:06
My dear wife stumbled upon this thread after Googling my name.........after reading all this glowing praise, she wondered if she was married to the same person!

Please tell your dear wife that, if your experience is anything like my dear husband's, she's in for nearly daily discussions of ethics, intellectual freedom, privacy, dubious marketing practices, group decision-making, and endless discussions about what "inflammatory" means!

As a veteran, I'd advise her to keep lots of chocolate in the house... quick energy for fuming and heavy pacing around rooms. :)

Capocheny
2-Jul-2008, 03:52
Hi Kirk,

All I can say is that this will be an even better forum thanks to your participation as a moderator.

I've always found your comments rational and well thought out.

So, Kirk, good to have you on-board as a moderator and contributing forum member! :)

(Also, this would be a good time to recognize all the other moderators who have done such a great job. Thank you.)

Cheers

Scott Schroeder
2-Jul-2008, 05:12
hmmm..... googling your name huh?
Checking up on you eh? :)
Thanks for taking on moderating Kirk.

Herb Cunningham
7-Jul-2008, 10:58
Thanks Kirk-glad to have someone I know to be an accomplished artist (or is that Artiste?) on the job.

Happy day



Herb

Andre Noble
23-Jul-2008, 07:54
Kirk, are you sure? I mean - you'll have less time for photography. I never thought of you as an arm chair warrior - like most of us are.:)

poco
29-Jul-2008, 00:48
At least there's no suspense anymore about which threads will have a short shelf life and which moderator will be the one to tweak, move, edit, or close them. Was it a conscious choice to move towards a more aggressive moderation policy with the addition of Kirk? That's certainly been the end effect.

David A. Goldfarb
29-Jul-2008, 03:23
Give it time. People will be comparing you to Hitler eventually.

That was July 2nd. Are we there yet?

poco
29-Jul-2008, 04:44
Not as measured by my post, David. Nobody compared anyone to anybody. But it's clear Kirk brought his own moderation philosophy to the job and why simple acknowledgment of the fact is worthy of snark is beyond me. But whatever...

David A. Goldfarb
29-Jul-2008, 05:04
Sorry poco, I should have said that I wasn't actually responding to your post, but rather to some contention behind the scenes that was mentioned in another thread and then deleted.

poco
29-Jul-2008, 06:22
No problem at all, David. I was hyper-sensitive because I was expecting my post to go over like a lead balloon.

Kirk Gittings
29-Jul-2008, 07:51
At least there's no suspense anymore about which threads will have a short shelf life and which moderator will be the one to tweak, move, edit, or close them. Was it a conscious choice to move towards a more aggressive moderation policy with the addition of Kirk? That's certainly been the end effect.

You would have to ask QT about the intent. It was his idea. I frankly, was taken completely by surprise by the offer. My intention was to maintain civility and the uniqueness of this forum. That meant, yes, to get more aggressive about things like DSLR posts that had no relevance to LF. I feel I need to get more aggressive in some other areas.

Oddly though, virtually all of the critical comments I have received privately (and there have been quite a few) have been about me not being aggressive enough.

Kirk Gittings
29-Jul-2008, 08:31
Just to elaborate on the above. It bothers me that some have been posting threads in the Lounge that are not "off-topic" and really belong in a regular category just so that they can post personal insults and accusations without being moderated. This practice is really against the spirit and intent of the Lounge and just provides cover for trolls.

Ole Tjugen
29-Jul-2008, 09:01
That sounds familiar, Kirk.

Maybe it could be an idea to change the Lounge from "unmoderated" to "lightly moderated"? That would give you an option to intervene if it gets too nasty - like it sometimes does over in the APUG Soapbox. The moderators will of course be accused of being nazis, of overstepping their limits by moderating an unmoderated area and so on, but you will get used to it eventually. You would also have to point out repeatedly that it says "lightly if at all moderated" in the header, and not "completely and utterly unmoderated". :)

BradS
29-Jul-2008, 09:22
As my mom always says...."everything in moderation".

BarryS
29-Jul-2008, 09:32
Kirk--you're doing a great job so far. As a mod on another large forum, I can tell you that no matter what you do, some people will complain. If you're only getting infrequent complaints, consider yourself successful. I couldn't agree more with maintaining the uniqueness and civility of the forum. The trouble with the lounge is that sometimes the fights and bad feelings spill over into the main forum. The lounge is a good forum for off-topic discussions, but trolls should be bounced and personal attacks shouldn't be tolerated anywhere.

poco
29-Jul-2008, 09:32
Kirk,

Personally I'd probably just let anything fly so long as it doesn't present some kind of existential risk to the board ...which only shows why I'd be a crappy moderator.

Don't sweat the comment.

-Michael

Jim Graves
20-Aug-2008, 18:13
I'm with Poco ... we're all big boys and girls here ... too much censorship is VERY rarely a good thing. And, it is censorship ... no matter what pretty name you use.

This site provides an important, and popular public forum ... and with that position comes a very real responsibility not to intrude more than is necessary with the free flow of information and opinion.

Sure, you can get a majority of the members on your side for a particular censorship ... but that parameter would have excluded Thomas Paine, Mahatma Gandhi, Alexandre Solzhenitsyn, Martin Luther, Martin Luther King, etc., etc., etc.

Oh, sure, there's nobody of that weight on this forum ... but, that is all the more reason to tread lightly on the censorship, banning, and suspensions.

Generally, we learn way more from discord than band-wagon agreement. And, what is the harm in a little discord ... it is what generates reflection and thoughtful review. And, if the comments fall a little out-of-bounds ... I think we're all capable of making that conclusion for ourselves ... and we certainly have the ability to just ignore the poster in question.

With power ... even with power as insignificant as being a moderator on this board ... comes the temptation to impose one's own value system ... but also the greater responsibility not to do so.

D. Bryant
22-Aug-2008, 20:54
I'm with Poco ... we're all big boys and girls here ... too much censorship is VERY rarely a good thing. And, it is censorship ... no matter what pretty name you use.

This site provides an important, and popular public forum ... and with that position comes a very real responsibility not to intrude more than is necessary with the free flow of information and opinion.

Sure, you can get a majority of the members on your side for a particular censorship ... but that parameter would have excluded Thomas Paine, Mahatma Gandhi, Alexandre Solzhenitsyn, Martin Luther, Martin Luther King, etc., etc., etc.

Oh, sure, there's nobody of that weight on this forum ... but, that is all the more reason to tread lightly on the censorship, banning, and suspensions.

Generally, we learn way more from discord than band-wagon agreement. And, what is the harm in a little discord ... it is what generates reflection and thoughtful review. And, if the comments fall a little out-of-bounds ... I think we're all capable of making that conclusion for ourselves ... and we certainly have the ability to just ignore the poster in question.

With power ... even with power as insignificant as being a moderator on this board ... comes the temptation to impose one's own value system ... but also the greater responsibility not to do so.
I'm with Jim in regard to moderation. I don't want to see the LF Forum become an Ada boy club or have over moderation like APUG has drifted to. This seems to be the direction that Kirk's recent censoeship has taken.

Heated debates are good in my opinion along with expressions of strong disagreement.

Don Bryant

Greg Lockrey
22-Aug-2008, 21:20
I think that the moderation lately has been pretty moderate. :)

Eric Biggerstaff
23-Aug-2008, 05:54
I agree with Greg.

I am all for heated debate and for letting those run their course, but over the past several months I have noticed that often these debates spiral into personal attacks. I don't think this should be allowed as it not only is offensive to those being attacked but reflects poorly on the forum as a group. In fact, this trend is one reason I don't visit or partcipate as much as I once did. One can debate and disagree with respect.

Keep up the good work moderators.

sanking
29-Aug-2008, 21:39
After some thought I would suggest that some moderation is needed in the Lounge for the sake of community.

Perhaps with the upcoming elections things people are more tense than usual, but the blatantly sexist comments in a thread there today on Sarah Palin just goes beyond what should be allowed on a forum of this type, IMO.

I participated in the thread for a while, even though the title itself indicated considerably sexism, but after a comment in which the OP started talking about republicans and $20 whores I left, with one final comment that I would complain about the thread here.

Threads that are overtly sexist are an embarrassment to me, and I hope to other decent men and women on this forum. I am all for the uncensored exchange of information, but when the level of blatant sexism is so extreme something should be done to stop it, either by moderation or by banning the offending parties.


Sandy King





I agree with Greg.

I am all for heated debate and for letting those run their course, but over the past several months I have noticed that often these debates spiral into personal attacks. I don't think this should be allowed as it not only is offensive to those being attacked but reflects poorly on the forum as a group. In fact, this trend is one reason I don't visit or partcipate as much as I once did. One can debate and disagree with respect.

Keep up the good work moderators.

Mark Sawyer
29-Aug-2008, 22:07
I'm on the opposite side from Sandy in the political debate, but respectfully so. And I think I must agree with him on this issue, given the start of post 141 in that thread.

Jim Graves
31-Aug-2008, 18:15
Either have a Lounge or don't. I could go either way. It is obviously not essential to this forum. As for censorship, I have no problem with expelling members who repeatedly make personal attacks ... but I object to exclusion of content unless it is clearly obscene or markedly inappropriate.

I have gone back and read the entire Sarah Palin thread ... as of now that is 218 replies (with 3641 viewings in less than 3 days.) The replies with questionable content were quickly called to task by other posters.

Some of the posts that were deemed objectionable by other posters were misconstrued (e.g. the $20 whore comment that clearly referred, not to Sarah Palin, but to true-believers that were willing to sell out their principles for some kind of gain.) Yes, the term whores is sexual in nature. Yes, many people are uncomfortable with it. But, it is a common non-sexist term with a long history of use to describe selling out ... that is how it was used. The post was objected to by a few, the poster explained and defended his usage in a subsequent post ... that is the way it should work.

As for the credibility or honor of the entire forum being threatened by this thread ... I don't see it. And, I have no idea why anyone who frequents this forum would feel that another's post somehow reflects poorly on their own character.

I found the thread topical, interesting, and pretty good drama. I disagree with a lot of what was posted but found a lot to agree with. I didn't like some of what was written but I wasn't offended by it. That it is popular reading is clear from the huge number of views in such a short time (3641 in less than 3 days.)

David A. Goldfarb
31-Aug-2008, 18:20
The reason the Lounge is good is that it keeps most of this discussion to the Lounge, so that people who aren't interested can put the Lounge on ignore, as I do, so it doesn't have to be part of their LF Forum experience.

I think the moderators should be more aggressive about deleting spillover from the Lounge, like some of the discussion here, because it defeats the purpose of the Lounge, which is to contain off-topic discussion.

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
8-Sep-2008, 12:17
Hi, Kirk. Your inbox is full.

Kirk Gittings
24-Aug-2009, 16:32
Welcome and Welldone Bobi as a new moderator in the norwegian section, i am sure you can give a big contribution to this forum as you did in other Forums already

Our Norwegian section definitely needs some moderation. Dude..............

Bill_1856
24-Aug-2009, 18:02
I'd forgotten that The Lounge was there -- turned it off years ago. Good ridance.

John Kasaian
28-Aug-2009, 10:43
My hats off to Kirk and the other moderators here. They do an excellent job. Life encompasses art and art documents life. It can be frustrating to divorce elements of either from a conversation, but if that is what it takes to prevent a melt down then I have to say Mr Gittings is more than fair handed .