Combi tank follies

[captainslack]

Developed my first 4x5 negs tonight. Here's what I learned:

1) Completely read the instructions, no matter how obtuse they may be, before asking stupid questions.

2) Don't drain the dev from the bottom tap. It's too slow.

3) After draining the dev from the bottom tap anyhow, don't forget to put the cap back on or else you'll have stop all over your kitchen counter.

4) Draining out of the top is also mighty slow.

5) The HP Combi Plan leaks out the top drain, so it's not possible to do inversions without leaking developer all over your kitchen counter, despite what the extremely obtuse instructions say.

6) Despite all that, I still managed to get images on my negs! :eek: Can't wait to see what they look like when they're dry.

[R Mann]

I have had pretty good success with these tanks - because they fill from the bottom up and drain from the top down - I always use the bottom drain to empty it with mine. Also, I shake mine from side to side instead of inverting it - that also seems to work OK for me.

[Jon Shiu]

Hi, it should drain as fast out of the lower drain if you take the cap off of the top spout to let air in. Also, make sure you screw in the top vent completely and it won't leak when doing inversions. I wear rubber gloves because the spout is slippery when wet and hard to tighten and unscrew.

Jon

[Ron Marshall]

My Combi works fine; but I am happy I spent the money for my Jobo Expert.

[Renato Tonelli]

Hi, it should drain as fast out of the lower drain if you take the cap off of the top spout to let air in. Also, make sure you screw in the top vent completely and it won't leak when doing inversions. I wear rubber gloves because the spout is slippery when wet and hard to tighten and unscrew.

Jon

Excellent advice. I never had a problem using the HP tank.

[captainslack]

Thanks, Jon. I'll try that next time I dev.

I had the top drain screwed down as tight as it would go. Still leaked when I inverted it. Oh, well. Not a big deal.

[Ross Chambers]

..and substitute something like fishing line for the dubious string which keeps the caps and the taps together for only a limited time, nothing worse than chasing around for a replacement if you lose the caps.

BTW I invert and wear gloves for both purchase and for preserving the health of my skin.

Regards - Ross

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks, Jon. I'll try that next time I dev.

I had the top drain screwed down as tight as it would go. Still leaked when I inverted it. Oh, well. Not a big deal.

Are you missing the washers that go on the drain plugs to prevent leaks? It also sounds like you are not opening the Light Tight Hose Connectors air path by giving them a slight twist open before filling or emptying. As I am the one that wrote those instructions from the original German ones you might want to call us if you need help with the tank. 800 735-4373. I will not be in tomorrow or Friday and will be unavailable the better part of Thursday.

[jetcode]

I used 2 tanks - once you get used to it you will be developing 12 sheets at a time two handed!

[captainslack]

Are you missing the washers that go on the drain plugs to prevent leaks? It also sounds like you are not opening the Light Tight Hose Connectors air path by giving them a slight twist open before filling or emptying. As I am the one that wrote those instructions from the original German ones you might want to call us if you need help with the tank. 800 735-4373. I will not be in tomorrow or Friday and will be unavailable the better part of Thursday.

No, I did not receive the washers. That would explain the leak. Would I need a specific set from HP or could I buy some from my local hardware store?

Yes, I am twisting the connectors to open the path. Sounds like I should have opened the top connector to let in air.

[Jiri Vasina]

CombiPlan tank was my first tank, and I have developed my first hundred of negatives therein (even some color). It worked, despite all the shortcomings you describe so vividly. But I'm glad I switched for the Jobo tanks instead - now I use Jobo 2800 line tanks on a Uniroller, which is much better - using less chemistry, saving my time (I can do something else while the development is in process), no leaks. But the CombiPlan was a good start. Don't regret buying it in the first place, don't regret selling it too...

[Bob Salomon]

No, I did not receive the washers. That would explain the leak. Would I need a specific set from HP or could I buy some from my local hardware store?

Yes, I am twisting the connectors to open the path. Sounds like I should have opened the top connector to let in air.

I have never seen these in a US hardware store. The fittings are metric and designed in the 50s. The washers we have here come from our factory in Sweden. Just call us and we will send you thE washers.

[Tori Nelson]

I've been using my CombiPlan for about 10 years and I LOVE it. I've never had any washers but it's also never leaked and I use the inversion method for developing. I think it's about as close to perfect for it's application as you can get. I use a jobo drum on a roller base for my 8x10's and that works just fine for me but I still say you can't beat the design of the Combi.

[scott russell]

I was considering buying one of these but i recently told that the spout is too small and takes so long to fill with developer and other chemicals, that it causes streaks on the film due to uneven development. He recommended just pulling the top off in the dark to fill/unfill the tank during the first 3 steps and then turning the lights back on once you get the lid on and start agitating, but this totally defeats the purpose for me as I don't have a darkroom. has anyone else experienced this?

[Jiri Vasina]

Scott, yes, that was the process I was doing - in darkness fill the tank with water (presoak), let it be for some time (I roughly estimated 2 minutes), then pour the water out through the top, pour the developer in, put the lid on and firmly close the tank as fast as possible, start the agitation and at the same time switch the light on and start the timer. Then I used the bottom valve for further emptyings...

[Tori Nelson]

I've never had a problem with uneven development, perhaps it's his method of agitation.

[redrockcoulee]

One of the two I have leaks a bit on inversion. The leaking is not terrible andi its just in the kitchen so no harm :) But also have a large Patterson tank that leaks when developing roll film, I also fill and empty from the bottom. Unscrew the top a bit and empties reasonably quick. Need to make a partial plug as without the drain on the bottom it empties faster than it fills in the wash cycle.
Also have had some problems with Technical Pan film due to its extreme thinnes but have dev maybe 15 tanks worth of it.
May need to investigate replacing the Combi tanks if we decide to keep the 5X7 Seneca but have not regetted buying them used as currently no darkroom

[KEK]

Scott when i filled threw the top I've occasionally had the uneven development that you heard about. What i read on another thread was to keep the funnel full to the top and this will help.

What i did though was buy another full set up and a tank. I fill in the dark, agitate with the lights on, drain lights off, Stop bath in the dark(tank without lid),Fix with the lights on.This really works for me in that i can do 12 sheets fairly quickly.Using just one tank i couldn't use the film holder until it had dryed off.

[bjorn]

The tank is super IMO. First i had trouble with filling the tank. But when laying the tank on the side, mount the the top with the vent "up". Fill the tank in the drain ventile with the fill ventile cap fully open. Tank is filled in 20-25 sek.

[scott russell]

The tank is super IMO. First i had trouble with filling the tank. But when laying the tank on the side, mount the the top with the vent "up". Fill the tank in the drain ventile with the fill ventile cap fully open. Tank is filled in 20-25 sek.

I just developed my first b&w 4x5 film ever today using the combi-plan tank, so i can chip in a little insight. What bjorn says is totally true about filling from the bottom spout while on its side. BUT it still took too long! What i figured out which makes me feel like a genius, is that i could jam a long, but narrow funnel into that little black rubber one and make a semi-decent seal. I dumped all 36 oz of dev/stop/fixer into this funnel with one quick dump, and with the magic of gravity, it FORCED all the liquid into the tank in a matter of 10 seconds. I was worried about the liquid coming out of the uncapped lid which was now sideways, but the little nubby thing on the opposite side of the cap propped the tank up about 1cm and allows you to just fill it that way. My film looks pretty good, but its still drying and haven't had a chance to inspect it all the way. I'm pretty happy with the tank so far, but some of the pieces and the way they fit seem like a joke for costing $80...

[Pete Watkins]

I tried my Combiplan for the first time on Thursday (with some caution after reading these posts) and had no problems with the filling and emptying, just a few splashes. I did manage to cock up the loading and somhow ended up with two sheets touching each other on one side. Yes, I did use the red loading thingey. I'll practice the loading with some old film in daylight but the first impression is that it's not a patch on my Patterson Orbital set up.
Pete.

[gevalia]

Yeah, if only it wouldn't leak as much. And yes, Bob, I have the washers and I am following the instructions. It just leaks. I just wish they would enhance the design to correct the problem. But it will have to do until I get a darkroom.

[gevalia]

Scott,
I have atrick that works for me to reduce long input time. When filling through the funnel, slightly apply upward pressure with your fingers on the neck of the funnel. Kind of pull up not too hard. I don't know why but it does load in less then the 40 second it takes when I do it without doing this. Hope this makes sense.

[gevalia]

Like most designs, it needs to be enhanced as time goes on instead of just idling.

[Bob Salomon]

Yeah, if only it wouldn't leak as much. And yes, Bob, I have the washers and I am following the instructions. It just leaks. I just wish they would enhance the design to correct the problem. But it will have to do until I get a darkroom.

Then send it to us and we will send you a new one.

[captainslack]

Gave the Combi tank another whirl tonight with much better usage results.

I didn't do a complete inversion this time, only tipped the tank on it's end and back. No leaks! Also opened up the vent at the top when draining and that improved the flow quite a bit.

[Tim Povlick]

I have used one of these tanks for better part of a year (Tech Pan and TMAX) with good results. For agitation I invert tank using a tumbling action of going corner to opposite corner. The development is uniform across the 4x5. If I press on the lid as I am tumbling then no leaks. As Gevalia mentioned pulling up on the funnel helps. I think this is bacause one is slighting opening the air gap a bit as you are pulling on the threads rather than resting weight on the threaded part of the stopper valve. This lets more air escape.

I am really impressed by the HP support !

Regards,

Tim

[Toyon]

I've used the Combi plan for thousands of negative. It is somewhat "fiddly", but once you get the procedure down it works very consistently. A few points:
I drain using the bottom hole after partially unscrewing the top seal. It takes about 25 seconds, but doesn't cause any problems in developing except with under 4 minute developing times. Secondly, virtually all leaking can be eliminated by making sure that the top is seated tightly against the container at all four corners and the little cap it placed firmly on the neck. Lastly, NEVER use photo-flo/LPN in the combi-plan, it builds up and effects the flow of water in the tank, causing decreased density at the edges of the film (perhaps by altering surface tension?). Spend some extra time to make sure you are taking every step deliberately and after a little while it becomes routine.