Swap from Wista Field to Sinar F

[Hollis]

Ok, let me know if this is just nuts or a good idea.

I have a Wista 45sp that I love but am starting to think that I should sell it and buy a Sinar, here are my reasons...

I shoot a lot of old brass lenses and a lot of them can be quite large so I would like to have a larger lensboard to be able to mount them.

I am tired of being seriously limited by my what, 8" of bellows on the Wista.

I would like to be able to use a Sinar shutter with some of my barrel lenses.


Now, here are my concerns. Am I going to regret getting a Sinar due to the size difference? When it really comes down to it, I don't backpack with 4x5, I usually shoot out of my car so that shouldnt be an issue.

Please, weigh in on this - would love to know what others think.


Also, if I decide to switch, I will be selling my Wista, any takers?

[Dave Parker]

Hollis,

As cheap as you can find the Sinars and some of the other LF cameras now a days, why not just buy another one, then you will have the option?

Dave

PS, I have owned several LF cameras over the years, and one of the ones I really regret selling was my Wista...

[Tom Perkins]

I agree with Dave, but I kept the Wista, and sometimes when I want to walk a little, or just have the simplicity and ease of handling, I pull it out, instead of the other, bigger cameras. They don't bring too much on the used market, anyway.

[tim810]

My first LF camera was a Sinar F1. It was easily packable in an f64 backpack and fairly light. I especially liked the ability to go from a 58mm to a 240 with ease.

I actually have a good friend and teacher who is selling a 4x5 sinar p with a couple sets of bellows, rails, Sinar shutter. all are in good shape!! He also has lenses ranging from i think 90 or 65mm To 240mm in db mount. I am working on getting some pics now.

Pm me if interested
Tim

[Greg Lockrey]

Dittoes to Dave and Tom's responses. Sinar's on the used market are cheap. I have one for the studio with both F and P rear standard and an Ebony (similar to your Wista) for the field. The Sinar F was made for field (F) use albeit it is a little more bulky. Plus you probably can get adapter lens plates where you can keep your lens on the Wista plate and use it on the Sinar too.

[Frank Petronio]

You could probably trade the SP for nice older Sinar P set. You see Fs sell for under $400 all the time. Or a Norma for $6-700 easy.

Find a good case that allows you to hang the camera upside down, ready to go, like one of the Tenba or Lightware view camera cases. And consider getting the super nice Sinar pan-tilt tripod head. Oh and probably a beefier tripod. But out of the car, that is an awesome set-up.

[Greg Lockrey]

Yes, you definitely should consider using the Sinar pan tilt head over anything else. Built to hold a tank. You can get them for about $250 used.

[Hollis]

Wow, that was fast. Thanks for all the comments and info. Also, i was thinking that since the Sinar is such an adaptable and modular system i would maybe buy an 8x10 rear standard and bellows and could kind of have an all in one setup. Now, what is the difference between the F, P, and Norma setups as a whole?

[Hollis]

What the Wista made for me today....

[Greg Lockrey]

Wow, that was fast. Thanks for all the comments and info. Also, i was thinking that since the Sinar is such an adaptable and modular system i would maybe buy an 8x10 rear standard and bellows and could kind of have an all in one setup. Now, what is the difference between the F, P, and Norma setups as a whole?

F is a lighter (field) set up with friction type movements. P is a very heavy with precision micrometer movements. Very heavy for field use, but could be done. If you want to adapt a digital back or DSLR to your Sinar, the P rear standard is the way to go. My particular camera was an F and a P rear standard was added later. I guess that type of set up is called a C. The front standard being a F is very adequate since most of the heavy use is on the rear. They all use the same rail. Yes, you can get a 8x10 rear standard and tapered bellows. Sinars are very modular in design. Norma's are similar in design and I think (not positive mind you) that the parts are interchangeable.

[Dirk Rösler]

I have done just that (to Sinar F 10x8 incl. Sinar shutter etc.) - very happy, but it is a matter of personal preference and depends on what you want to do. Sure, you may miss one day having a field cam, so it is up to your finances if you can afford to own both. I have the Chamonix as a light field, not quite as stable as the Wista but light and it will work for me... Good luck.

[Hollis]

One last question...

I usually just make my lensboards out of thin MDF for my wista so that I can mount all the weird lenses I acquire and not break the bank with 'real' boards. Can this be done with the sinar???

I would like to get a universal iris if I get a sinar but until then...

[Greg Lockrey]

One last question...

I usually just make my lensboards out of thin MDF for my wista so that I can mount all the weird lenses I acquire and not break the bank with 'real' boards. Can this be done with the sinar???

I would like to get a universal iris if I get a sinar but until then...

I would think that you could, there is nothing weird about them. You can get Chinese knock offs for about $30. Don't know about the universal iris though.

[enochRoot]

i've made several boards out of solid cherry, and the hardest part was planing them to thickness. if you used thinner mdf or birch ply, it's an easy task. after cutting the material to the right size square, just set the table saw blade to the right depth (about half-way through the board), and make 4 cuts for your light traps. easy-peasy.



One last question...

I usually just make my lensboards out of thin MDF for my wista so that I can mount all the weird lenses I acquire and not break the bank with 'real' boards. Can this be done with the sinar???

I would like to get a universal iris if I get a sinar but until then...

[Frank Petronio]

Just get a Sinar to Wista/Linhof adaptor board and keep doing what you're doing...

After you do a little more research, you may decide on a Norma, as they are a little more compact and actually better made than the later F and P series. But the F and P stuff isn't exactly trash... the rails, standards, bellows, Sinar shutter, backs, etc. will work between the Norma and later stuff, the exceptions being the small clips that hold the bellows lenshade are different and maybe some other obscure part...

The Sinar Shutter is an experience unto itself. One thing to note is that if your lenses extend rearwards, you have very short distance to work with when the shutter is mounted right behind the rear standard. Most people use a third, intermediate standard, with a second bellows, in order to gain some working distance. Otherwise you end up using those silly conical lens mounts to move the lens forward enough to clear the shutter. That factor, plus that the release cables are extra long throw and proprietary, make running a good Sinar shutter either a lucky buy or a relatively expensive scavenger hunt.

The ultimate lensboard for all your old glass is one of those German-made Irises that will clamp down on any diameter lens barrel that will fit. They come up on eBay once in awhile.

Oh and there are about 1000 other gadgets, it is like tinkertoys and you can build a Frankencamera easier than with any other system. You can buy into it cheap these days, but there are still a lot of ways to spend a lot of money with it.

[Mark Woods]

As some of you may know, I own a Sinar with most of the bells and whistles -- and the three formats: 4x5, 5x7, 8x10. When I have to pack an 8x10 into someplace, even a short distance, I use my Kodak 2D with it's Turner-Reich Triple Convertible Lens: 12", 21", & 28". That said, I miss my wider lenses with their Sinar boards. But the 8x10 Sinar is a beast to carry around and not very collapsible. And I miss the various movements when I have the 2D. If I really want the movements, I use the Sinar in either the 4x5 or 5x7 mode. BTW, the 5x7 is a great format when it's not cropped.

[Ed Richards]

> Find a good case that allows you to hang the camera upside down, ready to go, like one of the Tenba or Lightware view camera cases.

My F2 lives on it's side in a small Rubermaid action packer box. Costs about $12 and was much compact than the hanging boxes I tried. I just pop it out and put it on the Sinar pan/tilt head and i am ready to shoot. The F2 is not the most ridgid camera in the world, so if you are going to shoot with really heavy old lenses you might think about a heavy duty Cambo or a Sinar P. That will definitely limit your walking around, however.

[Ben Calwell]

I would keep the Wista and pick up a used Sinar for a song. Midwest (I have no connection to the company) usually has a good selection of Sinars at good prices.

[Hollis]

Ok, sounds like I have a mission. In regards to using a third standard and another set of bellows, how far back is optimum before it effects the image/coverage?

H.

[Frank Petronio]

It probably won't matter or it will be very obvious -- probably putting the extra standard in the middle will allow the most flexibility. A good combination might be the standard bellows and a bag bellows, so that you can also have the benefit of the bag for wide lenses.

[Brian Ellis]

Unless there's a problem with your bellows it doesn't have an 8" draw, it has a 12" draw. And you can add another couple inches with a top hat extender. And if that isn't enough you can use a telephoto lens to get the equivalent of about an 18" draw. Do you need more than that?

A Sinar shutter with your old lenses? I don't know anything about that shutter and why it's better than any other shutter with old lenses but using a particular brand of shutter seems like an odd reason to replace a camera. So your two reasons for getting a new camera sound like the usual rationalizations most of us use in an effort to convince ourselves that we really need a different camera. I think it would be saner and less anxiety-producing just to admit to yourself that there's no rational reason to get a new camera but you want one anyhow. : - )

[Bob Salomon]

Not only do you have a 12" bellows and you can add the Extension Lensboard set. You can also buy a Wista extended bellows and bed for your camera and add up to more then 3x the standard bellows length.

[Frank Petronio]

Brian - the Sinar Shutter is a behind the lens type of shutter that allows him to use all sorts of exotic old brass lenses, including some rather larger and heavy ones that would never fit in regular shutters.

Buying large format cameras is crazy to begin with...

[Hollis]

As for the bellows draw and the extended bellows and extended bed, those alone cost much more than a Sinar F would. Also, its a pain in the ass. So, Im going to get a Sinar. Maybe we can put this thread to bed. Thanks to all who contributed.

[Dirk Rösler]

Just received a board today made by this guy (http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZoaklandlenscom) - it's wooden and inexpensive, cut to size. You can drill holes for the flange yourself - recommended. (NB: These boards have a reenforced wooden layer on one side, presumably the back, around the centre. To make it fit with Sinar shutter you need to have this on the front side to have a flush back towards the shutter.)