shooting paper instead of film?

[Daniel_Buck]

I'm curious about this, when I was in college I made quite a few pinhole cameras and always shot directly onto paper instead of using film. The images were negative, but they were on paper and quite fun! :)

Are there 'normal' paper types (positive paper?) that could be used to shoot directly onto and not have a negative image? I bet this would be enjoyable, to shoot directly onto paper and get a B&W print on the first develop?

I realize contact printing would yield the same (or better?) results, but I'm curious about shooting paper. An 8x10 sheet of paper should load into an 8x10 holder, correct?

[vinny]

Some papers will fit but not all will fit. There aren't any b+w pos papers that'll process out but ilfochrome will for color, although there are serious drawbacks like high contrast to deal with.

[cotdt]

you can use vevlia

[Clay Turtle]

Used to be a method (chemistry) for making b&w transparencies out of negative film but not sure if it could be translated to paper. Lot easier to use the paper negative & contact print the positive.

[Nathan Potter]

I have used Ilfochrome - quite a while back. Made a homemade rig for doing still lifes by cutting a hole in my old darkroom wall in Massachusetts that would accept a film holder/lens setup and later a Linhof view for 8X10 sheets. Used 3200K lamps for illumination and small CC filter packs. Color balance was a bit of a PITA but results were quite beautiful.

Nate Potter

[Daniel_Buck]

Not talking about film, I'm talking about paper, non transparent :-) Sounds like that's not going to work. I was just curious, because I remember how much I enjoyed looking at the paper negatives.

Thanks for the replies though! I'll eventually get into color transparencies I suspect.


There aren't any b+w pos papers that'll process out Thanks, that's what I was looking for. :-)

[jnantz]

daniel

the chicago ferrotype company used to sell postive paper and chemistry
for their camera, the mandelette ... this was in the 1920s.
i know there are street photographers (or so i was told there were)
in mexico who will make a portrait while you wait on paper. it is the same
stuff as the mandelette / chicago ferrotype camera ...

john

[Nick_3536]

There have been various discussion about doing this with colour paper. Both RA-4 and Ilfochrome.

I sort of remember similar discussions about B&W paper on Apug.

[Randy H]

There are indeed some "positive" print papers out there. I do not recall immediately what or where. Go to APUG and do a search under their "Pinhole" forum. You will be able to find it there. They have quite a pinholer following, and this has been addressed several times there. Some shots had been posted there, and they look pretty good. my mind is not functioning 100% this early in the morning, but IIRC, it seems like panalure will shoot positive. Don't hold my feet to the fire on that. I would have to go see if that is what I did. It has been a few years here, too, for pinhole stuff. Still have a hubacious 8X10 pinholer that hasn't been out in about 4 years. May have to dig the thing out.

[Martin K]

I think it would be fun to try a variation of Fox Talbot's process which was a paper negative and gave a very distinctive feel. Use a RC paper and peel the emulsion. It will curl a great deal of course so stick it under glass and make a contact print.

[Randy H]

The sabbatier effect is cool too. The second "light flash" is the hardest part of getting them right. if contact printing, why not just use ortho. it's cheap. and you get the benefit of a negative.

[Darryl Baird]

I shoot paper negs and then scan them for a positive view. Lot of old paper laying around not being used... found two boxes of Kodabromide F2 that work great in a soft developer - like Selectol.

[rwyoung]

I'm curious about this, when I was in college I made quite a few pinhole cameras and always shot directly onto paper instead of using film. The images were negative, but they were on paper and quite fun! :)

Are there 'normal' paper types (positive paper?) that could be used to shoot directly onto and not have a negative image? I bet this would be enjoyable, to shoot directly onto paper and get a B&W print on the first develop?

I realize contact printing would yield the same (or better?) results, but I'm curious about shooting paper. An 8x10 sheet of paper should load into an 8x10 holder, correct?

Not exactly a "normal" paper type but you can use Polaroid or Fuji instant film in pinhole cameras. The upside is no chemistry unless you decide to use type 55 and process for the negative (which is quite tangential to your topic anyway). :)

Polaroid is of course going the way of the dodo but Fuji is quite available, especially if you like the pack-film size prints. I've been playing quite a bit with making pinhole images then scanning to be reprinted at 8x10. Bit of a cheat but I like the look.

[ditkoofseppala]

Eastman Kodak used to make a "Direct Positive" paper. Of course it required a chemistry similar to that for colour transparencies, though simpler because no colour developer involved. If I recall correctly (across some fifty years) it involved first developing the latent image, then bleaching it, re-exposing the paper to bright light to expose the remaining unexposed silver halides, redeveloping to obtain the positive image and fixing to remove the unwanted bleached negative image. Don't hold me to that, I might have the order of steps not quite right. I suspect it could probably be done with many papers; some would react better than others to the process. The process ought to be in one or another of the older Kodak darkroom/processing databooks.

[Richard Wall]

I have heard of people shooting on standard single weight fiber B&W paper then applying a coating of paraffin wax to the base to make it more translucent. This would then be used as a paper negative. I guess this is how they did it back in the old days of photography (when men were men and sheep were scared). I have used paper negs in the past using both RC and FB papers, without the wax coating, and they actually make a descent image when contact printed. Be sure that your paper doesn't have the company's name imprinted on the back.

r.

[Ted Felton]

Paper negatives are easy. Use any photo paper (without printing on the back; single weight if you can get it), cut to 4x5, put in your film holder and shoot. When using Ilford paper, for example, use about 2 ISO (or as low as you can go on your meter). Develop normally, put in the enlarger and make a print.

Ted

[Fr. Mark]

I'm pretty sure Ilford is making direct positive paper, but very contrasty iirc what I read here. Have a look at their website and use those keywords/brand names to narrow down your search.

Never having tried it, but I could imagine reversal chemistry might work for paper negatives, to develop as positives. I believe the fundamental chemistry of paper and film is similar but that the amount of silver is different which may preclude good results.

There is a paper negative section on this site somewhere those folks surely know about all this. I'd hope anyway.

[John Olsen]

Please go to the existing and informative "paper negatives" and "Harmon Direct Positive Images" threads. This new thread is going to waste a lot of your time and miss many valuable contributions over the last year or so. Honest, you're spinning your wheels here.