More RAM really makes a difference

[Scott Kathe]

I just installed 3 GB of RAM in my 20" iMac 2.16 GHz Intel Core Duo to replace the 1 GB that the computer came with. PhotoKit capture sharpener on a 280MB RGB file used to take 5 1/2 minutes to run with 1 GB RAM in CS3, with 3 GB RAM it was down to 40 seconds. I couldn't be happier. I knew more RAM would help but seeing is believing.

FYI I got the memory from Other World Computing and it was just under $75 for 1 2 GB stick and a 1 GB stick, Apple wants $300 for a 2 GB stick! I just hope the memory keeps on working;)

Scott

[Peter De Smidt]

Absolutely! I recently bought an old scsi scanner that runs in OS 9. A full resolution scan of a 35mm neg took about 5 hours. I then added 1 gig more memory to the G4 and the same scan took 7 minutes. That's a pretty good speed increase.

[Ted Harris]

FYI I got the memory from Other World Computing and it was just under $75 for 1 2 GB stick and a 1 GB stick, Apple wants $300 for a 2 GB stick! I just hope the memory keeps on working;)


There is no doubt that Apple charges outrageous prices for memory. OTOH, you can, IMO, go too inexpensive also. I checked the OWC site since the prices you quoted are way below what I am used to seeing from OWC, Data memory Systems, etc. I could be wrong but it looks to me like what you bought is not "Apple Certified" memory. Chances of anything going wrong are small but if it does and fries something else in your computer you will have voided your warranty by using non certified memory.

[Ed Richards]

Memory is not going to fry anything else, it will just fail. And if it works at all, it will probably keep working. Just run some system diagnostics to make sure it is working correctly.

[jetcode]

Memory is not going to fry anything else, it will just fail. And if it works at all, it will probably keep working. Just run some system diagnostics to make sure it is working correctly.

And if it did do you think a $200 G4 is worth fixing?

Apple loves to taunt those easily threatened by technology into believing that only APPLE certified components (i.e. 4x expense) will work.

[Scott Kathe]

OK, so I guess I shouldn't recommend it. I knew I was taking a bit of a risk but I didn't realized how potentially serious it could be. So far it checks out OK with the system profiler and it is supposed to "Exceed Apple/Intel Specifications" according to OWC

[jetcode]

OK, so I guess I shouldn't recommend it. I knew I was taking a bit of a risk but I didn't realized how potentially serious it could be. So far it checks out OK with the system profiler and it is supposed to "Exceed Apple/Intel Specifications" according to OWC

nonsense - thank you

my Apple MAC guru uses ALL kinds of different non-Apple certified brands and rarely ever has any failures, he backs his work - Ted is talking about violating the warranty on an expensive Apple product still under warranty. Personally I blow through computers once a year.

[Ted Harris]

Apple loves to taunt those easily threatened by technology into believing that only APPLE certified components (i.e. 4x expense) will work.

Joe, there is a difference between RAM you by from Apple ($500 for 2GB for the newest MacPro) and Apple approved/certified memory you buy from a third party (~$120 for the same 2GB).

While I agree that bad RAM won't fry anything else just be sure an Apple tech never sees non approved/non certified RAM i your machine if it is in for repair under warranty. Then, the difference in price from a third party reseller for the approved flavor is only marginally more so why mess around?

Joe is right ....... I am only talking about machines under warranty.

[Jim MacKenzie]

OK, so I guess I shouldn't recommend it. I knew I was taking a bit of a risk but I didn't realized how potentially serious it could be. So far it checks out OK with the system profiler and it is supposed to "Exceed Apple/Intel Specifications" according to OWC

I think this is the same Apple that intentionally makes the batteries in the iPod and the iPhone non-user-interchangeable, isn't it?

Some RAM is better than others, but you will know if it is bad. Your computer will crash spectacularly.

[jetcode]

Joe, there is a difference between RAM you by from Apple ($500 for 2GB for the newest MacPro) and Apple approved/certified memory you buy from a third party (~$120 for the same 2GB).

While I agree that bad RAM won't fry anything else just be sure an Apple tech never sees non approved/non certified RAM i your machine if it is in for repair under warranty. Then, the difference in price from a third party reseller for the approved flavor is only marginally more so why mess around?

Joe is right ....... I am only talking about machines under warranty.

Yikes!

In the PC world we never experienced these distinctions from a PC manufacturer, there are definite grades of RAM (mostly reliability testing and warranty) but I have never installed components that didn't work regardless of cost.

[jetcode]

I think this is the same Apple that intentionally makes the batteries in the iPod and the iPhone non-user-interchangeable, isn't it?

Most likely this has to do with power requirements and form factors. It doesn't make APPLE more profit to have to support two battery types and in fact both batteries are likely supplied to APPLE from the same manufacturer.

[rob]

I use memory with parity bit in my pc. does mac use memory with parity bit? With GB size memory, I'd imagine that the chances of getting bit errors increase.

[Scott Kathe]

Some RAM is better than others, but you will know if it is bad. Your computer will crash spectacularly.

I had one of the old jelly bean iMacs at work, I think it was a G3, and the Apple RAM went bad but it didn't crash spectacularly it just started acting really funky. Some pull down menus weren't there in some applications and the machine kept locking up and/or crashing every couple of days. Now our group has one of the Mac Pros for heavy duty enzyme kinetic analysis and mathematical modeling. If I lived closer I would come in afterhours and do some photoshop work, but it's a university so there really aren't any 'afterhours'.

Scott

[Jim MacKenzie]

Most likely this has to do with power requirements and form factors. It doesn't make APPLE more profit to have to support two battery types and in fact both batteries are likely supplied to APPLE from the same manufacturer.

My criticism was in the fact that Apple chooses not to make it easy to change the batteries. Other consumer devices tend to have batteries that are easily removed and exchanged. Apple has intentionally done the opposite to force most iPod and iPhone users to pay Apple a service fee to make the exchange, and to quash the market on third-party batteries.

I like a lot of things about Apple, but lithium ion batteries are only good for two to three years. They do fail, whether you use the device or not. Not making them easily exchangeable by the user is egregious. I would be as mad as hell if Nikon or Canon made it so that I had to send my camera away to change the battery.

[jetcode]

My criticism was in the fact that Apple chooses not to make it easy to change the batteries. Other consumer devices tend to have batteries that are easily removed and exchanged. Apple has intentionally done the opposite to force most iPod and iPhone users to pay Apple a service fee to make the exchange, and to quash the market on third-party batteries.

I like a lot of things about Apple, but lithium ion batteries are only good for two to three years. They do fail, whether you use the device or not. Not making them easily exchangeable by the user is egregious. I would be as mad as hell if Nikon or Canon made it so that I had to send my camera away to change the battery.

If you ever get a chance to design a thin portable consumer grade appliance the first thing you will likely do is dismantle an ipod and iphone. The Lithium battery packs are extremely thin and are not packaged to be handled by consumers. In fact trying to access the battery pack with it's tiny connector is beyond 99.9999% of the people who use these products. Apple knew this. Apple decided to provide the service and in my eyes when that battery is toast after 3 years of hard play you can pay Apple to have them replace the battery which is cheaper then buying a new unit. I think it's a great design and they likely had little choice considering getting a product approved for consumer use. They could have designed the ipod to be fat and clumsy like a cell phone but they didn't. Cell phones are all battery because it takes 1 amp of power to transmit to a wireless radio tower. I just integrated a GPRS modem into a green irrigation system.

Cameras like the Nikon and Canon DSLR employ high speed DSP technology which require a lot of power making the ability to replace the big fat battery essential. Try sticking a camera in your shirt pocket.

[SamReeves]

Joe, there is a difference between RAM you by from Apple ($500 for 2GB for the newest MacPro) and Apple approved/certified memory you buy from a third party (~$120 for the same 2GB).

While I agree that bad RAM won't fry anything else just be sure an Apple tech never sees non approved/non certified RAM i your machine if it is in for repair under warranty. Then, the difference in price from a third party reseller for the approved flavor is only marginally more so why mess around?

Joe is right ....... I am only talking about machines under warranty.

Apple approved or not, what makes the memory work in the new Mac Pro's is a heatsink built to Apple certifications. You're asking for trouble if you don't have the heatsink.

BTW, I used Data Memory Systems memory with the heatsink, and nary a problem since January of last year.

[Ed Richards]

Sure, if you need a heatsink, you have to have one.

I am not so sure about the legality of voiding the warranty based on a non-certified part. I though the IBM antitrust case ended that practice some years ago. (They wanted to make you buy their punch cards.)

[jetcode]

Apple approved or not, what makes the memory work in the new Mac Pro's is a heatsink built to Apple certifications. You're asking for trouble if you don't have the heatsink.

BTW, I used Data Memory Systems memory with the heatsink, and nary a problem since January of last year.

at 133mhz bus speeds (my G4) won't be a problem - high speed yes

[Ted Harris]

Joe, your G4 also uses different memory than a MacPro.

Another vote for Data Memory Systems (www.datamem.com).

[jetcode]

Joe, your G4 also uses different memory than a MacPro.

Another vote for Data Memory Systems (www.datamem.com).

Ted getting the right memory is not a problem - my mac guy can put 512m sticks in for $45 each

[Brian Ellis]

Sure, if you need a heatsink, you have to have one.

I am not so sure about the legality of voiding the warranty based on a non-certified part. I though the IBM antitrust case ended that practice some years ago. (They wanted to make you buy their punch cards.)

I'm not an anti-trust lawyer but I think you're right. My understanding is that they can legally void the warranty only if the non-approved part contributed to the problem at hand.

[Skorzen]

I'm sorry but I feel like there is a whole lot of BS being spouted in this thread. I have heard that macs can be a little more particular about their memory than PCs, but basically that means it works or it doesn't. Back in my PC days I bought some cheep memory which failed, I replaced it under the "lifetime" warranty and it failed again. I think I did this three times. The memory failure only made the computer run weird (lots of things locking up) and never caused any damage to any of the other components. Neither have I ever heard of damaged being caused by memory failing.

When I got my macbook recently (which replaced a powerbook that I upgraded the memory on as well) I bought 4 gbs of RAM from OWC (their house brand for less than $100 when Apple wanted about $800) time will tell if it will cause problems but there has not be a hiccup yet and I see no reason to expect one. If you are really concerned about it not being the same thing you can get memory from one of the TWO oem manufactures that apple uses for $50 or $60 more.

And for all the people talking about how third party manufacturers memory will fry in the Mac Pro's, if you looked you would see that at least at OWC the memory has the heat sinks that it needs.

[Ted Harris]

I don't think anyone is talking about third party memory frying a MacPro, that has certainly not been my intent ... although I did use the word fry in my first post.

The point is simply that, if you have third party RAM that is NOT Apple approved/Apple certified in a machine that is under warranty and that machine goes in for service and the service tech spots that memory .... it could, not will but could, void the warranty. That said, there is a slew of third party memory that is Apple Certified and is still way less than Apple charges. So, my point is why mess around with the absolute cheapest while your machine is still under warranty and the Apple warranty, IMO is one of the best going.

[Stephen Best]

I don't think anyone is talking about third party memory frying a MacPro, that has certainly not been my intent ... although I did use the word fry in my first post.

The point is simply that, if you have third party RAM that is NOT Apple approved/Apple certified in a machine that is under warranty and that machine goes in for service and the service tech spots that memory .... it could, not will but could, void the warranty. That said, there is a slew of third party memory that is Apple Certified and is still way less than Apple charges. So, my point is why mess around with the absolute cheapest while your machine is still under warranty and the Apple warranty, IMO is one of the best going.

Apple's machines are generally way under-configured for RAM. The new Mac Pro with only 2GB certainly was for my intended use. The main attraction of these machines is that they WILL take a lot of memory (and disk storage). If I understand what you're saying, the alternatives are using a hobbled machine until the warranty expires or paying through the nose for Apple-branded memory (often the same memory the third-party suppliers use). The failure rate for RAM these days is pretty low and most suppliers have a no questions asked replacement policy. If you're worried about what the Apple techo might say, you can always pull the memory you've added.

[Henry Ambrose]

000

[Scott Kathe]

I ran a program last night called Remember to check and see if the RAM I installed was functioning correctly and it was. Has anyone here used this software (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/24508). Are there other ways to check and see if the RAM is good?

Didn't mean to cause such a fuss with my post:(

Scott

[Bill_1856]

My maximum RAM eMac now takes 24 minutes to load iPhoto, and even longer to import any new images. I say to hell with Apple, I'll stick with PCs.

[Ted Harris]

If I understand what you're saying, the alternatives are using a hobbled machine until the warranty expires or paying through the nose for Apple-branded memory (often the same memory the third-party suppliers use).

You don't understand what I am saying. Much third party RAM is Apple Approved/Apple Certified and it costs much less than Apple branded RAM. Buy it. A small amount of the least expensive RAM is NOT Apple Approved/Apple Certified. Don't by it just to save an additional few bucks. That is all I am saying.

[Scott Kathe]

If I had done a bit more research I would have gone for Apple Approved/Apple Certified RAM. I mistakingly thought all non-Apple RAM would not be approved by Apple.

Ted is right, as usual, I checked the terms of my AppleCare and it states that 'the plan does not cover: d Problems caused by a device that is not the Covered Equipment, including equipment that is not Apple-branded, whether or not purchased at the same time as the Covered Equipment;'

If I ever have a problem I guess I'll pull the OWC RAM and put the Apple RAM back in. Actually I say that now but if I ever have a problem that will be a real dilemma for me because I tend to be honest to a fault. Hope I don't get in trouble for plagiarizing the terms and conditions of the AppleCare Protection Plan in this post.

Scott

[Stephen Best]

You don't understand what I am saying. Much third party RAM is Apple Approved/Apple Certified and it costs much less than Apple branded RAM. Buy it. A small amount of the least expensive RAM is NOT Apple Approved/Apple Certified. Don't by it just to save an additional few bucks. That is all I am saying.

I got some OWC "Apple Qualified" memory that isn't Apple Approved/Apple Certified. Massive heatsinks. Works great. When prices drop in 6 months or so I'll have no hesitation in buying another 8GB of the same.

[SamReeves]

If there's a problem with the machine you just take out the other brand memory before you send it in for service. Problem solved and Apple Care is still in effect!

Why the heck should I pay more to Apple just to buy their branded memory. It's a waste of money which some of us don't have endless supplies to burn.

[Skorzen]

I don't think anyone is talking about third party memory frying a MacPro, that has certainly not been my intent ... although I did use the word fry in my first post.

The point is simply that, if you have third party RAM that is NOT Apple approved/Apple certified in a machine that is under warranty and that machine goes in for service and the service tech spots that memory .... it could, not will but could, void the warranty. That said, there is a slew of third party memory that is Apple Certified and is still way less than Apple charges. So, my point is why mess around with the absolute cheapest while your machine is still under warranty and the Apple warranty, IMO is one of the best going.

Sorry Ted if I might have been a little to strong with my reply there. As others have stated my understanding is that replacing memory does not void your warranty, it just means that the new memory isn't covered by apple. I actually just checked on the Mac Pro (being apple's big $$ machine) and apple provides instructions for replacing the memory. In those instructions it mentions that Apple recommends using only Apple approved memory. Previously it had stated that not following these instructions could damage your computer and void it's warranty. I guess it comes down to how you interpret "recommends" and "could." They are certainly somewhat vague terms.

That being said I replaced the memory in my old powerbook and sent it in for repairs twice (screen recall and the optical drive quit on me). When I spoke to the service department they asked how much memory was in the computer and I told them, I was at least under the impression that this was simply to make sure it came back to me the way it went to them. From looking around it sounds like if you break something when replacing the memory you void your warranty, but if you don't it's fine (that comes from someone who spoke with Apple, if anyone is concerned I would check myself).

[jetcode]

I suspect if you put in a grossly failing non Apple approved ram stick that shorts the supply or takes out the processor Apple will void the warranty

[Rakesh Malik]

Joe, there is a difference between RAM you by from Apple ($500 for 2GB for the newest MacPro) and Apple approved/certified memory you buy from a third party (~$120 for the same 2GB).


Not other than the price, there isn't.

Apple isn't the only company that charges such outrageous prices for the same memory that you can get from Crucial, Corsair, Kingston, etc.

[Rakesh Malik]

I'm sorry but I feel like there is a whole lot of BS being spouted in this thread. I have heard that macs can be a little more particular about their memory than PCs, but basically that means it works or it doesn't.


There is actually a caveat with that on the macpro, because they use FB-DIMMs (because they're Xeons, and the Core2 Xeon models require FB-DIMM). FB-DIMM is a lot more finicky than most other types of ram, and also quite a bit more expensive.

If you configure them properly, FB-DIMMs will give you better memory performance overall as well as higher capacity than other memory types, but the added cost, heat, and price are downsides. It is a pretty new technology though, so it may come down in price, or it may just vanish from smaller systems entirely. I get the impression that vanishing is more likely though.