Rodney Lough Jr.

[Lilly of the Nile]

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post, although I’ve been reading for some time (a bit sheepish I guess).

I just got my March issue of Pop Photo. There’s an article on Clyde Butcher and Rodney Lough Jr. on the “Viewfinder Within”. It’s awesome! You guys need to read it.

It talks about how they teach photography, I love the way Rodney Lough Jr. does his and the things his past students have to say, well it makes me want to go take one of his workshops.

Has anyone here taken one from him? Would love to hear about it!

Lilly
You can email: lillyofthenile1@yahoo.com - here.

[Louie Powell]

I haven't been in his workshop, but I've visited Rodney Lough's gallery in Sausalito several times. Has some beautiful work - both 4x5 and 8x10.

[Jon Shiu]

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post, although I’ve been reading for some time (a bit sheepish I guess).

I just got my March issue of Pop Photo. There’s an article on Clyde Butcher and Rodney Lough Jr. on the “Viewfinder Within”. It’s awesome! You guys need to read it.

It talks about how they teach photography, I love the way Rodney Lough Jr. does his and the things his past students have to say, well it makes me want to go take one of his workshops.

Has anyone here taken one from him? Would love to hear about it!

Lilly
You can email: lillyofthenile1@yahoo.com - here.

Your post looks like thinly disguised PR, but I might be too cynical?

Jon

[Lilly of the Nile]

Jon,

it might look that way, but it's not. I would really like to take one of his workshops, and am simply wondering if anyone has, or knows anyone that has.

the article is a good one. they talk about Clyde Butcher as well.

Lilly

[Jon Shiu]

Okay, great, but a check of google indicates you posted this 4 times on photo.net, and twice on twice on canon forums with the identical message in the last few hours, so it looked suspicious. Anyway, hope you enjoy the workshop if you go!

Jon

[Lilly of the Nile]

yes, because, like i said, i'm trying to find out if anyone knows about this guys workshops.

now that we've gotten that out of the way.

do you have ANYTHING to contribute for me, or are you just on a witch hunt?

[roteague]

Okay, great, but a check of google indicates you posted this 4 times on photo.net, and twice on twice on canon forums with the identical message in the last few hours, so it looked suspicious.

and joined LF today....

[Jon Shiu]

Yes, the best thing to do would be to give Mr. Lough Jr. a phone call and ask specific questions. You will get a good idea on his style by how he responds. Also, he can give you references from participants and you can email or talk to them. Good luck!

Jon

[Lilly of the Nile]

and joined LF today....

yeah, but have been watching and reading for a very long time.

I've never really understood the quick to judge mentality here, to be honest - i don't understand where the cynicism comes from. why?

now that i'm vocal on the board, i'm happy to speak about it, i'm not silent anymore.

xoxox
Lilly

[Lilly of the Nile]

Yes, the best thing to do would be to give Mr. Lough Jr. a phone call and ask specific questions. You will get a good idea on his style by how he responds. Also, he can give you references from participants and you can email or talk to them. Good luck!

Jon

If i can't come to a group like this to ask them their opinions - because heaven knows the type of answer i'm likely to get from the horses mouth by calling him directly - where else should i turn, eh?

and the article, not written by me btw, has students raving about the guy. i was just hoping to get some useful feed back here....nothing other than that.

[Jon Shiu]

If i can't come to a group like this to ask them their opinions - because heaven knows the type of answer i'm likely to get from the horses mouth by calling him directly - where else should i turn, eh?

and the article, not written by me btw, has students raving about the guy. i was just hoping to get some useful feed back here....nothing other than that.

Fine, and by the way welcome to the forum. It would good to be specific in your questions, ie describe what your level of experience is, your experiences with workshops in the past, what you hope to get out of it, etc. Otherwise you may just get "He is a great inspiring guy!" type of responses.

Jon

[QT Luong]

and the article, not written by me btw, has students raving about the guy.


Given the question you asked, I would hope that the article was not written by you !
Or did you mean instead it was not written by the photographer's PR team ?

[Lilly of the Nile]

Fine, and by the way welcome to the forum. It would good to be specific in your questions, ie describe what your level of experience is, your experiences with workshops in the past, what you hope to get out of it, etc. Otherwise you may just get "He is a great inspiring guy!" type of responses.

Jon

thank you Jon.

i'm an avid wanna be. shot 35mm for years, took up 4x5 a couple years ago. still have my canon 20d, don't shoot me.:) i'd say i'm OK, but not ready to 'share' anything yet because, well, i'm just a bit shy as to what others might say to be honest.

what i'd like to know, specifically on this workshop question, is: has anyone taken one from this guy, and did you learn anything of use? did you have fun? was it physically hard? would you do it again? sort of the normal stuff one might want to know about it. i've never taken a workshop before, but feel it's time, i think i've gotten to the point where i can feel comfortable around others, showing off my compositions, and seeing what others have/are doing.

it's a wonderful art form and i love it!

thanks,
lilly

[Lilly of the Nile]

Given the question you asked, I would hope that the article was not written by you !
Or did you mean instead it was not written by the photographer's PR team ?

QT - shame on you.

the fellow who wrote the article, his name is: Eric Rudolph. he has been a long time contributor to PopPhoto and has over the years written some very wonderful articles. he did one last Feb on Thomas Mangelsen, very good one in fact - "King of the Beasts", look it up - it's a very interesting discussion about who's who and who's the KING.

to suggest that the article was written by a "PR team", hmmm....have you read the thing? it talks about 2, count them, TWO master level photographers: Clyde Butcher & Rodney Lough Jr.

it most certainly was not written by some PR team.

QT - have you taken a workshop from Mr. Lough? would you, ever, take a workshop?

Lilly

[QT Luong]

I don't understand why you would find my reply so shameful (unless you have some connections with Mr Lough, which of course is not the case). You state that "you didn't write the article", which seems so obvious that I was wondering if that's what you meant, that's all.

I have not taken a workshop from Mr. Lough, although if he offered one on marketing (rather than photography), I may consider it. There are many talented landscape phographers out there (including in this forum), and what sets Mr. Lough's apart from them has been his apparent ability to sell his work, rather than the work itself, which I must add, is beautiful.

[Lilly of the Nile]

I don't understand what's so shameful about my reply. You state that "you didn't write the article", which seems so obvious that I was wondering if that's what you meant, that's all.

well, i must have misunderstood you then, my apologies.

[Mike Castles]

Lily, I think Jon was asking is what is it you expect to learn from the workshop. I haven't taken one of his workshops, but have spent some time visiting with him before at a local art show. I can share with you my experience from a workshop with another big name (would prefer not to name names, though). The workshop was very good - from the standpoint of learning little tidbits on how the photographer works, how he 'sees' as well as the good old technical stuff like sunny f16, what tripod works, which one does not, and lots and lots of slide shows - that gives you an idea how long ago it was.

Today I would guess that there is a video presentation or a/v rather than the slide show (which was very good). When it was all said and done, I felt like it was a good time - to meet and greet these talanted peoples, but I did not learn that much - it was all 35mm back then. What I want from a workshop, may not be the same as you want so it may be a great value for you. On the other hand, I really don't want to spend $$$ on a workshop that really on provides me with chance to go out and shoot with other photographers. This may be due to the fact that on any given weekend I can go out and shoot with some very talented people.

In the end the choice is yours, if you decide to go and have a great time then it will be worth it. If you go, just because you admire someone's work - well my guess is that is what you would like to know. Sorry I can't help you with your question directly, but hope you will consider that there are several people here that are just as good as Rodney or Clyde. Take a look at the foto3 conference and see if there is anyone you might be interested in taking a workshop from, it would be a very good chance to meet with a lot of people that share the same interest and will be at all levels.

[Lilly of the Nile]

thanks for that very insightful advice.

i would ask though, when you did take that workshop (where now you wouldn't), is that because of where you 'were' at that time in your photography vs. where you are now?

i'm asking because, although i'm sure there are a lot (and boy aren't there) photographers out there that would fancy themselves as great teachers; i don't remember seeing many (if any) written about lately; at least either of these guys have been.

i don't mean to make that sound like a criticism of anyone out there, but these guys are getting talked about in a very very good way.

i'm not sold either way; still waiting to hear from someone that has actually taken one with either of these guys.

thanks.
lilly

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Lilly,

I think one of the keys to finding a good workshop is understanding where you want to go with your own work, and seeking out those who can help you along the path.

There are many excellent, and very well known photographers, who offer workshops and are very fine teachers.

Some questions:

What do you hope to gain from the workshop experience?
Where are you "at" in your work now?
Where do you want to move your work to?
What style of photography to you admire and want to master?
Who are some photographers you admire and do they teach workshops?

Other than the article you read on Clyde Butcher (whose work I am very familiar with) and Rodney Lough Jr. (whose work I am not familiar with), what drives you to want to take a workshop from one of them?

Have you checked out places like the Ansel Adams Gallery, Maine Photographic Workshops, Anderson Ranch Arts Center and others to look at their workshop offerings? They offer many, many workshops to fit all levels of ability and are generally taught by well known and well regarded professionals.

[Mike Castles]

Lilly,

A good question, I was indeed drifting with my photography at the time. Knew that what I was doing was not what I wanted from it. Today, I would still sign up for a workshop, but I would be more specific in what I expected and hope I would be able to verify that a workshop had what I wanted/needed.

Eric's questions are very good and I think it would help you determine what you want if you were to sit down and list on paper what it is you want to learn. Then search the web for workshops and see who offers the types of workshops that would fill that need. Each person here could give you a list and tell you why the people on the list would be a good choice, but if their photography does not appeal to you, then it would not be a good match.

If you desire is to become a good printer, this will take you down one path - which would split B&W vs Color, then wet darkroom vs lightroom, or say you are interested in alt process - plt/pld, gum, VanDyke, Carbon, Kallitype, on and on. You may want to hone your scanning skills, Photoshop skills, etc. It's all part of photography these days and the path we take depends on our own desire and sometimes our wallet.

Look at what is close to where you live, it's helpfull to consider one close to home so you can concentrate on the workshop and not the distraction of the place the workshop is at. If you take one of the workshops from RL or CB write up your own summary for others to refer to.

Most of all, keep making your art and if we don't agree with your choices it does not mean that much in the end. I would say that the first response you had were most likely due to some who stop by this and other sites to promote their own agenda, that is all.



thanks for that very insightful advice.

i would ask though, when you did take that workshop (where now you wouldn't), is that because of where you 'were' at that time in your photography vs. where you are now?

i'm asking because, although i'm sure there are a lot (and boy aren't there) photographers out there that would fancy themselves as great teachers; i don't remember seeing many (if any) written about lately; at least either of these guys have been.

i don't mean to make that sound like a criticism of anyone out there, but these guys are getting talked about in a very very good way.

i'm not sold either way; still waiting to hear from someone that has actually taken one with either of these guys.

thanks.
lilly

[Lilly of the Nile]

Lilly,

Some questions:

What do you hope to gain from the workshop experience?
Where are you "at" in your work now?
Where do you want to move your work to?
What style of photography to you admire and want to master?
Who are some photographers you admire and do they teach workshops?

Other than the article you read on Clyde Butcher (whose work I am very familiar with) and Rodney Lough Jr. (whose work I am not familiar with), what drives you to want to take a workshop from one of them?

Have you checked out places like the Ansel Adams Gallery, Maine Photographic Workshops, Anderson Ranch Arts Center and others to look at their workshop offerings? They offer many, many workshops to fit all levels of ability and are generally taught by well known and well regarded professionals.

Hello Eric,

i checked out your website, very nice b&w images btw.

thank you for the Q's, gives me more to go on.

i noticed from your site, at least it looks like to me, that you do primarily b&w? is that why you know about Clyde Butcher but not Rodney Lough Jr.? As Clyde is considered the current b&w master, while Lough the current color master? also, from your site, i noticed that you've done a bit of publishing yourself! fabulous!

i will look into the other sites, as you've suggested as well. but i guess to answer your question i think that i just really like the guys work....he's dang good. the thing i like about it is, he doesn't seem to follow any conventional rules, it doesn't look like anyone else's work - that i've ever seen before (making it unique imho), that his compositions just work and that i can't seem to pinpoint why they work, it's a bit of a mystery, it's like the beauty of chaos theory, can't explain why the patterns are there (because it's chaos after all) but they're there & i like them....i just do. it's odd, i know. :rolleyes:

lilly

[Peter Lewin]

Lilly, I probably shouldn't be responding, since like everyone else who has so far, I've never taken one of Rodney Lough's workshops, in fact had never heard of him before now. But I did take a look at his website, and his photography is certainly competent (personally I don't see anything that different from many other landscape photographers, but that is only a personal reaction), and I took a look at his "Slot Canyon Workshop Package." I've taken three workshops over many years: Fred Picker's (infamous?) one when I was pretty new to LF, Sally Mann's workshop with the Maine Photo Workshops when I was competent, but loved her work, in particular people with an LF camera (at the time she wasn't doing landscapes like "Deep South" etc., those came later in her career), and finally one on printing with one of George Tice's assistants. So each had a purpose. From what you've posted, Lough meets at least one "requirement:" you love his work. Secondly, he says he will use an 8x10 and predominantly Fuji Astia himself, so if your goal is LF/color, its a good fit. The final question to ask yourself (beyond cost) is whether any of the locations he teaches at call out to you. If so, his curriculum looks similar to most multi-day on-site workshops, so you should enjoy the experience if you choose to try it.

[Lilly of the Nile]

I did take a look at his website, and his photography is certainly competent (personally I don't see anything that different from many other landscape photographers, but that is only a personal reaction), and I took a look at his "Slot Canyon Workshop Package."

So each had a purpose. From what you've posted, Lough meets at least one "requirement:" you love his work. Secondly, he says he will use an 8x10 and predominantly Fuji Astia himself, so if your goal is LF/color, its a good fit.

If so, his curriculum looks similar to most multi-day on-site workshops, so you should enjoy the experience if you choose to try it.

Peter,

thanks for the advice, it's free after all, and i always at least 'listen'. this would be my first workshop, ever. he says that the groups size, being 12, is small. i've seen others have as many as 25-30 (with an 'assistant'), but does 12 seem about the right size to you? given that you've taken more than me? ;)

lilly

[Peter Lewin]

i've seen others have as many as 25-30 (with an 'assistant'), but does 12 seem about the right size to you? given that you've taken more than me? ;)
I'd say smaller is always better, since you get more interaction with the "named teacher" (in this case Mr. Lough Jr.) rather than with an assistant. I thought a bit after my post, and the only "negative" I saw to this workshop (assuming you will be shooting LF) is that since it is on-site, you won't be able to get a critique of your pictures, while the digital types can at least replay their images (either on camera, or to a laptop). In the Picker workshops we all developed film and made contacts every day, and in Maine their lab staff did this for us, and gave us contacts the next day, which Sally could critique. Both of these workshops were on "campus-like" settings. This isn't a shortcoming specific to the workshop you're looking at, but applies to all on-site workshops, unless they have a lab nearby.

[Justin Black]

All I can say is, beware of "master" photographers who refer to themselves as such, particularly if they don't cite such designation by reputable, knowledgeable and respected sources. Inclusion on the Yahoo "Masters of Photography" list, in my opinion, is not suitable. Master photographers do not pop up out of nowhere. They are eventually recognized after years of exhibition and publication. In other words, the work must be selected as masterful over time.

[Justin Black]

Here's an interesting thread:

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005EcN

Look for the post by "leanna normine." It is the only post by that user on Photo.net. It appears that LeeAnna Lough is Rodney's wife:

http://portland.ohsohandy.com/a/120204-web-programmer-designer-to-work-with-graphic-designer

She is also his contact at their Oregon gallery. A Google search for LeeAnna Normine
Lough produces a contact in Portland, Oregon. It appears that something fishy went on here. I wonder who Lilly of the Nile is?

[Lilly of the Nile]

All I can say is, beware of "master" photographers who refer to themselves as such, particularly if they don't cite such designation by reputable, knowledgeable and respected sources. Inclusion on the Yahoo "Masters of Photography" list, in my opinion, is not suitable. Master photographers do not pop up out of nowhere. They are eventually recognized after years of exhibition and publication. In other words, the work must be selected as masterful over time.

Justin,

couldn't agree with you more. but....PopPhoto called him that. they also called Clyde Butcher that too. should we ignore what they have to say?

from what i can gather, he's been at it for nearly 15 years full time and is in several museum collections, has done museum shows and has a host of galleries across the country.

no offense, but a search on your name shows that you are the gallery manager for the galen rowell gallery. and galen is listed on that same masters list on Yahoo that you mention; does that mean that galen (IYHO) isn't a master? come on, give the guy some credit will you. you can't have it both ways dude.

as for your second post.....



Here's an interesting thread:

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005EcN

Look for the post by "leanna normine." It is the only post by that user on Photo.net. It appears that LeeAnna Lough is Rodney's wife:

http://portland.ohsohandy.com/a/120204-web-programmer-designer-to-work-with-graphic-designer

She is also his contact at their Oregon gallery. A Google search for LeeAnna Normine
Lough produces a contact in Portland, Oregon. It appears that something fishy went on here. I wonder who Lilly of the Nile is?

I don't know about this. but i will say your google search is a bit dubious ..... since the reference is from reunion.com???? aren't we reaching here just a bit.

as for me, let me state it once more for those of you who haven't read the prior posts. My name is Lilly Nile, I live in Atlanta - I am no relation to either Clyde Butcher or Rodney Lough Jr.

man, what a group of cynics!

xoxox
lilly

[Justin Black]

Justin,

couldn't agree with you more. but....PopPhoto called him that. they also called Clyde Butcher that too. should we ignore what they have to say?

from what i can gather, he's been at it for nearly 15 years full time and is in several museum collections, has done museum shows and has a host of galleries across the country.

no offense, but a search on your name shows that you are the gallery manager for the galen rowell gallery. and galen is listed on that same masters list on Yahoo that you mention; does that mean that galen (IYHO) isn't a master? come on, give the guy some credit will you. you can't have it both ways dude.

No offense taken in the slightest. My point is that inclusion in the Yahoo "masters" list isn't necessarily a reason to be impressed. Yahoo is not held to any particular standards in terms of who is included. What criteria were used to select the photographers therein? For all we know, a single employee or small group at Yahoo could have cobbled the list together from other existing lists of well-known photographers, adding in photographers whose work they happened to stumble across and personally liked. We also have no idea if it is possible to pay for inclusion on the list. There are many photographers on that list, ranging from acknowledged greats to relatively young photographers. It isn't terribly selective.

Galen's presence on the same list is irrelevant. He had earned his reputation long before Yahoo was even a figment of its founders' imaginations.


as for your second post.....

I don't know about this. but i will say your google search is a bit dubious ..... since the reference is from reunion.com???? aren't we reaching here just a bit.

I don't think so. It seems to me pretty likely that either Rodney or his wife wrote that Photo.net post as a promotional tool, and given the tone of your posts, I think those of us who questioned the authenticty of them have reason to wonder. One person's cynicism can be another's common sense.

[Louie Powell]

Lilly -

Please have a little patience with this crowd - at times it can be a bit cynical. But part of that is justified by the fact that there have been too many instances of stealth postings with hidden agendas.

Your original question was whether anyone had participated in a Rodney Lough workshop, and I don't think anyone here has. I'm sure that there are folks here who have participated in lots of other workshops (in my case, I've done LF workshops with both Tillman Crane and Chip Forelli, and I can enthusiastically recommend both of these guys).

But perhaps we could help you more if you could describe where you are coming from (experience level, etc) and what you are looking for in a workshop. Certainly, if what you want is to be able to emulate Rodney Lough, then taking his workshop might be just fine. But if you are interested in developing your own style and vision, and are searching for a workshop that will help you develop the technical skills at the same time that you try to identify what that vision is, then Lough's program may not be right for you. Also, its quite a trek from Atlanta to where Lough does his work - would you be attracted to something closer to home? For example, Tillman is doing a workshop with Bruce Barnbaum in the Smokey's this summer - that would be more convenient, and working with two different photographers in a single workshop means that you would be less tempted to try to be a clone of one or the other.

You questioned the size of Lough's workshop. In workshops, smaller is always better. Frankly, 12 is a pretty large group and doesn't provide a lot of the individual, one-on-one instruction that makes a workshop really effective.

A question that should always be asked in thinking about a workshop - will the instructor also be photographing? In a LF workshop, there is nothing wrong with having the instructor do demos, but if the instructor is concentrating on his own photography, he is likely to not devote enough time to looking over the shoulders of the students.

Another important question - how is the workshop conducted? Will the instructor give specific assignments? How will the feedback process work? Will you develop your negatives and make proof prints to show to the instructor, or will the instructor go with you to examine how you frame potential subjects and discuss how you decide on exposure on the basis that the negatives will be processed after the workshop?

Final point: you said that Butcher is "considered the B&W master" while Lough is "the color master". These are highly judgmental statements and the person who wrote the PopPhoto article was clearly editorializing. I don't think you will ever get agreement on who is "the master". Surely, both guys are great photographers, but there are lots of others who are just as good - and perhaps even better. Try not to get hung up on who is "the best".

[Lilly of the Nile]

Galen's presence on the same list is irrelevant. He had earned his reputation long before Yahoo was even a figment of its founders' imaginations.

I don't believe this to be true, otherwise it suggests a very real level of duplicity. I still argue that you can't have it both ways. I'm not taking anything away from Galen at all.



One person's cynicism can be another's common sense.

it certainly can.

lilly

[Lilly of the Nile]

Lilly -
Please have a little patience with this crowd - at times it can be a bit cynical. But part of that is justified by the fact that there have been too many instances of stealth postings with hidden agendas.

Thank you Louie! this is very good to hear. I work at a trucking company as the front office person so i've got pretty thick skin. ha ha.



I've done LF workshops with both Tillman Crane and Chip Forelli, and I can enthusiastically recommend both of these guys).


I will look them up, thanks.



But perhaps we could help you more if you could describe where you are coming from (experience level, etc) and what you are looking for in a workshop.

I, probably like many here have developed my own style - or at least i'd like to think so, so having my work look like someone else's isn't my priority.

I'd like to see how other people are drawn into a composition as a way of exploring my own style. i think of it like going to a cooking class, i might not have a cooking show or my own line of cook wares, but i'd like to know the way the recipe can be put together.

technically, from the camera 4x5 standpoint, there hasn't really been anything i haven't been able to figure out. Ansels book(s) have been great. I had to read some pages more than once before i figured them out, but the results were lessons well learned.

I have a lot more to learn. i guess i'll stop learning after they bury me.



You questioned the size of Lough's workshop. In workshops, smaller is always better. Frankly, 12 is a pretty large group and doesn't provide a lot of the individual, one-on-one instruction that makes a workshop really effective.

A question that should always be asked in thinking about a workshop - will the instructor also be photographing? In a LF workshop, there is nothing wrong with having the instructor do demos, but if the instructor is concentrating on his own photography, he is likely to not devote enough time to looking over the shoulders of the students.

Another important question - how is the workshop conducted? Will the instructor give specific assignments? How will the feedback process work? Will you develop your negatives and make proof prints to show to the instructor, or will the instructor go with you to examine how you frame potential subjects and discuss how you decide on exposure on the basis that the negatives will be processed after the workshop?


Your right on all these points, i think that maybe i will give his studio a call. I used to live in Portland so maybe the 'home town' connection will get me a little less hype than i might otherwise expect.



Surely, both guys are great photographers, but there are lots of others who are just as good - and perhaps even better. Try not to get hung up on who is "the best".

I know, I know. working with a bunch of 'red necks' all the time keeps me on my toes, and so i tend not to take anyone else's crap - regardless, which is why i'm probably so quick to defend the 'under dog'.

thanks Louie,
Lilly

[Joseph Kayne]

I would suggest that you look for the well recogionized color "Masters." I would suggest Charles Cramer. I hear he gives a wonderful workshop. While not familiar with Mr. Lough, there are many other color landscape photographer/teachers out there that have garnered recognition far and beyond Mr. Lough (to be taken with a grain of salt since I am not familiar with his workshops). There are also many other black and white teachers with greater recogintion and experience, such as Ray McSavaney, Bruce Barnbaum, John Sexton. I hear Sam Abell is a wonderful teacher, although he does not use large format. Check out all resources before deciding on one photographer. I hope whomever you choose, that it furthers your pursuit in large format photography!

Joe.

[Lilly of the Nile]

I hope whomever you choose, that it furthers your pursuit in large format photography!

Joe.

Joe, that's all I'm hoping for as well.

I visited your website and this one: Aspen Boles & Willows,Late Autumn, Colorado #99001038 - it STUNNING!

lilly

[Eric Biggerstaff]

"noticed from your site, at least it looks like to me, that you do primarily b&w? is that why you know about Clyde Butcher but not Rodney Lough Jr.? As Clyde is considered the current b&w master, while Lough the current color master?"


Lilly,

In response to the above, I don't consder Clyde to be the "current B&W master" at all. His work is outstanding and he surely ranks up there at the top of his field, but no more so than several others. I can think of a couple dozen whose work I admire equally as well as Clydes and a few whose work I like even better.

Also, I don't consider Lough Jr. "the current master" of color. I went to his site and his work is lovely, but no better than a few dozen other color landscape photographers out there doing the same thing and photographing in the same locations. He is a VERY skilled self promoter and marketer (man I wish I had that talent!) but there are photographers whose color work I admire more, some of whom are contributors to this forum.

While I have not read the Pop Photo article (not a magazine I read often), if the writer did call Lough and Butcher "the master" then that was a mistake in my opinion and I would not get to caught up on it.

Your original post was a good one and I hope we have given you some ideas to consider. Going on your first workshop is exciting and can be rewarding if you find the right fit between what you need to grow as a photographer and what you are looking for in terms of an instructor.

Taking time to ask some honest questions about your level of ability and where you want to go with your work, then taking more time to research as many of the available options for workshops as you can find, will increase your chances of having a rewarding workshop experience.

For sure, if Rodney Lough Jr. is someone whose work inspires you to get out there and make some images, then give one of his workshops a try. Learning and growing is as much about the attitude the student brings to the workshop as it is about the person teaching the workshop. If you are positive and having fun, you will learn and grow no matter who the instructor is.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

[Harley Goldman]

I ran into Rodney one morning in Yosemite and a buddy and I shot the breeze with him for quite a while. He was a very nice guy, but did have a very high opinion of his own work. My buddy and I got a good laugh over it later. He said something to the effect that his work made Mangelson's work look like crap. Other than that, Rodney was a nice enough guy.

When I got home, I looked up his website. He has some nice work, some very cliche work. Overall, it did not blow my hair back.

[roteague]

When I got home, I looked up his website. He has some nice work, some very cliche work. Overall, it did not blow my hair back.

I can't say I would consider his work cliche, but I will say that it doesn't do much for me either.

[lostcoyote]

He was a very nice guy, but did have a very high opinion of his own work. My buddy and I got a good laugh over it later. He said something to the effect that his work made Mangelson's work look like crap. Other than that, Rodney was a nice enough guy.

heh, saying that another person's work is crap in public sounds more like something an egomaniac would say


When I got home, I looked up his website. He has some nice work, some very cliche work. Overall, it did not blow my hair back.

i've always not understood what it means to say that a person's work is cliche. does that mean copying another person's style or a style in general?
i've been to photo dot net and there is so much oustanding work being put up over there, it's hard to tell the difference sometimes - especially in color landscapes, i end up feeling like photographers (and very good ones) are sorta like musicians in that the good ones seem to be a dime a dozen (no offense intended here - i am a dime a twnty five dozen photographer myself) and the ones that set themselves apart are the ones with exceptional marketing and networking skills.


what does it mean to be a master anyways. i know a couple of photographers whose work is parallel with that of some of the accepted masters of the field... their prints certainly look and feel like masterworks, yet... they are not considered masters because they have not had enough exhibits, enough publication, etc. is "mastership" more about being part of an "old boys club" where quantity of good work is a more important factor than quality of just a few exceptional pieces?

i guess these days, anyone can make a claim that they're a master. if yahoo is good enough for american society, then so be it.

[jetcode]

I can't say I would consider his work cliche, but I will say that it doesn't do much for me either.

There are many artists that image in this style, Rodney has some prints from 8x10 film that are drop dead gorgeous, I think you have to want a piece in that style and IMO there are many artists to choose from

[Brian Ellis]

I think it's safe to say at this point that no one here has taken a workshop from Mr. Lough. I've taken many workshops, probably 12-15 ranging from two days to two weeks including one from Clyde Butcher. I've almost always enjoyed them, usually learned a lot, really liked spending time in the company of other serious photographers and being immersed in photography for the duration of the workshop. But the best aspect of a really excellent workshop for me is coming away from it feeling inspired and with a renewed dedication to photography. The best instructors can do that.

[Sheldon N]

Not to be mean here, but I think this whole post is self promotion by Rodney's wife, Leanna.

I agree with Justin about the post from 2003 by "Leanna Normine", which is written in very much the same style as the content posted by "Lilly" here. It also happens that Leanna joined the forum back then the very same day and only posted about how great Rodney was.

Also note that all the content posted in the last day or two on Photo.net by "Lilly Nile" is gone, and her member ID is also deleted. It seems that the moderators at Photo.net didn't approve of her joining the forum and then spamming the same day with multiple posts about how wonderful Rodney Lough Jr is and how we should all check out his workshop now that he's been featured in Pop Photo.

Personally, if this is all true I think this speaks very poorly about Rodney and makes me highly question whether anyone should consider taking a workshop from him. I know that people need to self promote in order to make a living at this, but going out and creating false identities/posts to drive website traffic and get people talking about Rodney is low, IMHO. Maybe it's true that any publicity is good publicity. Heck, I've never heard of the guy before and I practically work next door to his home gallery.

Ultimately, it's up to QT and the moderators whether they want to let this thread continue and keep Lilly as a member here at this forum.

[Peter Lewin]

My name is Lilly Nile, I live in Atlanta - I am no relation to either Clyde Butcher or Rodney Lough Jr.

man, what a group of cynics!

xoxox
lilly
Well, originally I replied twice to questions "Lilly" posed, giving her the benefit of the doubt. But given the number of responses suggesting that this whole thread is just a PR stunt for a photographer none of us ever heard of (and given that this is a pretty experienced group, including a lot of professionals, that says a lot!) I played detective with google and telephone directories. There are four "L Niles" listed for Georgia (where I always thought Atlanta was...): three Lawrences and one Leroy. So I have switched to the cynics, and wish the moderator would delete this whole advertising thread.

[jetcode]

Well, originally I replied twice to questions "Lilly" posed, giving her the benefit of the doubt. But given the number of responses suggesting that this whole thread is just a PR stunt for a photographer none of us ever heard of (and given that this is a pretty experienced group, including a lot of professionals, that says a lot!) I played detective with google and telephone directories. There are four "L Niles" listed for Georgia (where I always thought Atlanta was...): three Lawrences and one Leroy. So I have switched to the cynics, and wish the moderator would delete this whole advertising thread.

yeah that's conclusive - google and telephone directories

[Jon Shiu]

Well it is not the first time he/she has tried this. Take a look at the comments in this blog, scroll down to the bottom at Jan 31, 2008 by "Joe Smo" and see if you don't smell a certain hubris: http://www.lostateminor.com/2006/10/15/peter-lik/
Perhaps he finds it amusing, in an adolescent way.

Jon

[Kirk Keyes]

Maybe if there is enough interest here, we could get Rodney Lough, Jr. and Micheal Fatali to do a workshop together.

By the way, do you pronounce his (Lough) name "Luff" or "Low"?

[David A. Goldfarb]

In the videos on his website, it is pronounced "Low."

[Justin Black]

Maybe if there is enough interest here, we could get Rodney Lough, Jr. and Micheal Fatali to do a workshop together.

By the way, do you pronounce his (Lough) name "Luff" or "Low"?

So much ego massed in one location would cause a black hole to form.

[jetcode]

So much ego massed in one location would cause a black hole to form.

yeah and it would be fun to participate in their workshops to see what I could learn

[Ted Harris]

For all those harboring suspicions, the moderation team has the same suspicions. We've been checking and, while the evidence is all circumstantial, it does appear that Mr. Lough and Ms. Nile are not strangers.

[roteague]

yeah and it would be fun to participate in their workshops to see what I could learn

Like the latest street fighting techniques.... :eek:

[Brian Vuillemenot]

Having fake posts written to drum up support for his workshops? That's got to be a new lough for Rodney... ;)

[jetcode]

oh my god - collusion, imagine that

[QT Luong]

> yeah and it would be fun to participate in their workshops to see what I could learn
> Like the latest street fighting techniques

According to the PP article, in Rodney Lough's workshops you will learn to liberate your creativity by opening up emotionally. A method which is used is to have you recant your worst life experience in front of strangers (the other participants). According to the writer, this results in immediate improvement of your images.

[domenico Foschi]

> yeah and it would be fun to participate in their workshops to see what I could learn
> Like the latest street fighting techniques

According to the PP article, in Rodney Lough's workshops you will learn to liberate your creativity by opening up emotionally. A method which is used is to have you recant your worst life experience in front of strangers (the other participants). According to the writer, this results in immediate improvement of your images.

I am not sure if you are taking it lightly, but having access to your deep seeded emotional "baggage", if you will, does have a dramatic impact in your creative process.
However, talking in front of strangers of your worst trauma I am not sure it would be an advisable practice.

[John Voss]

i've always not understood what it means to say that a person's work is cliche. does that mean copying another person's style or a style in general?


I think it can mean a number of things including what you've cited. For me it also means that the same or similar scene is photographed in the same or similar way as many, many other people have done. I'm sure it happens everywhere, but I am more aware of cliche work that's made of the iconic sites that dot the west and southwest. For example, once you get going on the photographer links some Colorado photographers have on their websites (I did by happenstance, not by intention to find fault with anything about Colorado), you find bushels of similar images of the same subjects. It gets very stale very quickly.

[Brian K]

Having seen some of the beautiful work that John Voss has been producing lately in his backyard, you can expect to see many photographers from Colorado gathering there. :)

[John Voss]

you can expect to see many photographers from Colorado gathering there. :)

YIKES!! ;)

[Kirk Keyes]

you can expect to see many photographers from Colorado gathering there. :)

I suspect this will cause a new cliche to arise...

[Mike Castles]

15 post over 2 days to 1 thread...yes it seems you guys nailed this one.

Sad, that someone would resort to this sort of method to drum up business - even sadder to know the thread will live on for people see the type of business tactics were used to drum up business.

[rodney@theloughroad.com]

I've been waiting to put my two cents in here, patiently.

Let me first categorically deny that i know the person in question on this tread.

And two: give all of you the opportunity to ask me directly, ANY questions you might have about me, my business, or my photography.

So feel free, fire away.

Rodney Lough Jr.
http://www.TheLoughRoad.com

[Doug Dolde]

Very nice work Rodney. Don't listen to the naysayers, in fact they're part and parcel of this forum. You are obviously very talented at photography as well as self promotion.

[rodney@theloughroad.com]

Very nice work Rodney. Don't listen to the naysayers, in fact they're part and parcel of this forum. You are obviously very talented at photography as well as self promotion.

Thanks Doug,

There's a nice conversation going on over at the introductions area, in case you haven't seen it. lots of very nice comments over there.

[Michael Alpert]

For all those harboring suspicions, the moderation team has the same suspicions. We've been checking and, while the evidence is all circumstantial, it does appear that Mr. Lough and Ms. Nile are not strangers.

Ted,

Given the other "Rodney Lough" thread, I think the game is clear enough. This is very sad behavior.

[rodney@theloughroad.com]

Ted,

Given the other "Rodney Lough" thread, I think the game is clear enough. This is very sad behavior.

Ted,

Would you please respond to this, based on our off-line communications.

[jetcode]

Rodney,

Do you use digital tools in your image making process? Do you routinely shoot 8x10 or are there other formats you use? I don't want to burden you with too many questions but I'm interested in your craft.

Joe

[Ted Harris]

Based on a private exchange of emails it appears that Rodney may have his internet sites setup in a way that permits anonymous users to 'appear' to come from there. He has told us he doesn't know the lady.

[rodney@theloughroad.com]

Rodney,

Do you use digital tools in your image making process? Do you routinely shoot 8x10 or are there other formats you use? I don't want to burden you with too many questions but I'm interested in your craft.

Joe

I shoot 8x10 film, usually Astia 100f in the field, typically only 2 sheets per comp. Then process one sheet at a time, based on field notes, hoping to get 'close enough' on at least one of the sheets. As we all know, film is only an approximation to what we truly saw when we were standing there. Rarely, if ever, is it an exact rendition, it is a reference point, a place to begin.

For nearly 30 years I did everything in a traditional wet darkroom, from ciba to supergloss, including b&w. Loved it, but hated the color crossover issues associated with it. People would comment about how wonderful a image looked, all the while I'd be thinking "I hope they never get to see the transparency, because it's way nicer than this photograph."

About six years ago, when I felt that the digital darkroom (primarily output) surpassed traditional wet darkroom techniques and that a final photograph could be produced in such a fashion as to remove the color issues of a traditional dr, and that I was able to get back to what I saw when I was standing there, is when I transitioned over.

I have 2 Optronic Color Getter Eagle drum scanners. One we use, the other is for parts as needed, it is fully functional though - but we only use the one right now. After scanning the 8x10 original, typically to about a 1 gig file, I begin work on the image.

My goal has always been to get back to what I saw, how i get there I don't really care; other than to say I want it to look like what I saw and that it's as perfect and finished to museum standards and is as good as I can make it today (key word here "today", because technologies change, improve, etc.) I want to be able to look people in the eye and let them know that these things, these places, these moments really DO exist.

I only use the 8x10, and crop to two pano formats 10x24 & 6x10, and I personally prefer, in pano, the 6x10 format. I just like it, it feels more natural to me than the really wide pano's i see everyone doing these days. It's personal.

so, to paraphrase: 8x10 exclusively, cut/crop as needed to fit alternative formats, process and prep everything myself, print as much as we are able in-house, outsource the rest.

Hopefully this answered the questions.

[BarryS]

Based on a private exchange of emails it appears that Rodney may have his internet sites setup in a way that permits anonymous users to 'appear' to come from there. He has told us he doesn't know the lady.

LOL! :D Oh yeah, anonymous users with his same IP address that just happen to promote his workshops. And then he just magically appears on the same forum. Please. It's obvious that this guy or his wife spammed a bunch of internet photography forums with the same dumb gimmick. I mod on a very large board and this stuff is easy to spot. So I'll give Rodney the same advice I give to the other spammers--If you think you have something to offer--be straightforward about it and don't insult the members of the forum with sham posts. I'd have some respect for the guy if he was honest and said--you know, I made a dumb mistake and I apologize, but let's start over and here's what I have to offer the community.

[rodney@theloughroad.com]

BarryS (if that's your real name) It was not from my IP address, like you suggest - nice try though, maybe you'd like to conjure up some more theories. No offense, but you're wrong, so maybe you could just learn to live with it and move.

[BarryS]

Yep--real name. Ok Rodney, but suggest you use Lilly of Denial as you next pseudo. :)

[rodney@theloughroad.com]

sorry, nothing more to say to you.....

[Doug Dolde]

Geez even Ted our exhalted moderator is contributing to the bullshit.

[jetcode]

Rodney thanks for answering that question. A real inside look at a successful practice. Sounds like you are well taken care of in the production department. Thanks again.

[jetcode]

LOL! :D Oh yeah, anonymous users with his same IP address that just happen to promote his workshops. And then he just magically appears on the same forum. Please. It's obvious that this guy or his wife spammed a bunch of internet photography forums with the same dumb gimmick. I mod on a very large board and this stuff is easy to spot. So I'll give Rodney the same advice I give to the other spammers--If you think you have something to offer--be straightforward about it and don't insult the members of the forum with sham posts. I'd have some respect for the guy if he was honest and said--you know, I made a dumb mistake and I apologize, but let's start over and here's what I have to offer the community.

What IS your problem other then a lot of unecessary bitterness?

Personally I don't know why Rodney doesn't make workshop announcements in this forum, every else does. And so what if someone asks about his workshops? Wow, big crime, an extra thread exists which may actually be useful to someone.

Ok, your turn.

[Justin Black]

What IS your problem other then a lot of unecessary bitterness?

Personally I don't know why Rodney doesn't make workshop announcements in this forum, every else does. And so what if someone asks about his workshops? Wow, big crime, an extra thread exists which may actually be useful to someone.

Ok, your turn.

I think his issue is that there appears to be fairly compelling evidence that Mr. Lough and/or his wife (and business partner) created a stealth post under a false identity, designed to promote his workshop program. If this is in fact what happened, his "bitterness" is entirely warranted and Mr. Lough should apologize. In most of the world, this sort of misrepresentative behavior is considered highly unethical and worthy of scorn.

[jetcode]

I think his issue is that there appears to be fairly compelling evidence that Mr. Lough and/or his wife (and business partner) created a stealth post under a false identity, designed to promote his workshop program. If this is in fact what happened, his "bitterness" is entirely warranted and Mr. Lough should apologize. In most of the world, this sort of misrepresentative behavior is considered highly unethical and worthy of scorn.

Apologize? WHATEVER FOR? Further more what planet do you live on? I'd reconsider relocation. Where I come from all of this is SO trivial that it wracks my brain to wonder why you folks are getting all twisted up over this.

Mind you I alias on Craigslist all the time and so do a whole lot of other people. I am still at a loss to understand how you have been harmed. Sorry, it must be the water around here.

OK, your turn

[Justin Black]

Apologize? WHATEVER FOR? Further more what planet do you live on? I'd reconsider relocation. Where I come from all of this is SO trivial that it wracks my brain to wonder why you folks are getting all twisted up over this.

Mind you I alias on Craigslist all the time and so do a whole lot of other people. I am still at a loss to understand how you have been harmed. Sorry, it must be the water around here.

OK, your turn

Forums like this one are created so interested parties can have an honest, open dialog about topics that interest them, without being subjected to spam and advertising. Occasionally, someone tries to get around the standards of the community by creating a stealth post that promotes their business. If you would prefer that anyone who has something to sell to the membership of the forum can freely post their advertisements at will, then we'll have to take that up with the moderators. I would imagine that member participation would plummet.

[jetcode]

Forums like this one are created so interested parties can have an honest, open dialog about topics that interest them, without being subjected to spam and advertising. Occasionally, someone tries to get around the standards of the community by creating a stealth post that promotes their business. If you would prefer that anyone who has something to sell to the membership of the forum can freely post their advertisements at will, then we'll have to take that up with the moderators. I would imagine that member participation would plummet.

Justin, I think we all want a little exposure. Not to add more work to the moderators work load but a forum topic for one time ads or a list that cannot be edited publicly would be beneficial to all. The previous attempt failed because it was not hard wired by the moderators. Joe

[Justin Black]

Justin, I think we all want a little exposure.

Sure, but that doesn't make dishonesty or disregard for standards and rules acceptable. The ends do not justify the means.


Not to add more work to the moderators work load but a forum topic for one time ads or a list that cannot be edited publicly would be beneficial to all. The previous attempt failed because it was not hard wired by the moderators. Joe

The question is, does the majority of the membership want such a feature? If they do, then fine.

[jetcode]

Sure, but that doesn't make dishonesty or disregard for standards and rules acceptable. The ends do not justify the means.



The question is, does the majority of the membership want such a feature? If they do, then fine.

That brings up a real question. Is this a cooperative or a forum brought to us by Tuan? I most certainly am not making contributions to the server cost. Personally I like having a directory somewhere. Imagine the different portfolios and services at your fingertips.

[Kirk Gittings]

No the real question is simple marketing honesty and if true, what that kind of deceitful self promotion might reveal about other marketing claims. For instance, from Rodney's Photography as Art page on his website:

"Second, the paper and processing quality must be the absolute best available. for color photographic art the Fuji Crystal Archive type CDR paper is currently the best for color photography from a longevity and color saturation standpoint (see www.wilhelm-research.com - an independent research company that determines the life expectancy for different photographic print materials - in fact Cibachrome, now called Ilfochrome classic deluxe, at one time (some 20 years ago) was considered the best material available, sadly it now ranks as one of the least archival materials available - oh how times change); while selenium toned photographs from a paper with a high silver content should be expected and demanded for all black and white photographic art.

Finally, it should last! many museums and corporate collectors are now seriously investing in photographic art as an investment. why? the primary reason is the archival quality now available. in fact the process and paper that i employ has an archival quality estimated somewhere between 250-500 years (depending on how you care for it.) time frames like this outlast many "traditional" mediums. insist on archival quality and only the best photographic materials and museum standards."

Say what? If I read this right, it is very confusingly worded to be sure, FCA is what he uses because it is the most archival light sensitive color material available according to Wilhelm, yet Wilhelm only talks about 60 years under glass (100 years in dark climate controlled storage) for Fuji Crystal Archive before significant fading occurs--not the 250-500 years Rodney seems to be claiming.

[jetcode]

Tough crowd, maybe his print audience are dogs and cats?

The verdict has been handed down.
I'll get the rope ready, someone want to pick a tree?

While we're in slay mode Rodney I wanted to address Tom Magnelson. What a nice unpretentious man who has made some very nice images over the years. Do you know Tom?

[rodney@theloughroad.com]

I think his issue is that there appears to be fairly compelling evidence .... In most of the world, this sort of misrepresentative behavior is considered highly unethical and worthy of scorn.

you would be correct except for one thing.....

the posts were not from our server, as Ted previously cleared up.

that's why the denial - because we didn't do it, that's why there won't be an apology.

so the 'evidence' is anything BUT compelling.

so please stop with the conjecture will you. can you?

[Ted Harris]

you would be correct except for one thing.....

the posts were not from our server, as Ted previously cleared up.

that's why the denial - because we didn't do it, that's why there won't be an apology.

so the 'evidence' is anything BUT compelling.

so please stop with the conjecture will you. can you?

The moderators didn't clear up a thing. Please note my words carefully:

Based on a private exchange of emails it appears that Rodney may have his internet sites setup in a way that permits anonymous users to 'appear' to come from there. He has told us he doesn't know the lady.

I used the word "may" and passed on your explanation. We have neither accepted or denied it but in the spirit of good will have welcomed you to the Forum and, at your request, I published a precise of our decision/finding. It's time to move on.

[rodney@theloughroad.com]

It's time to move on.

I could not agree more.

[srbphoto]

Where's Lily?

[rodney@theloughroad.com]

Tough crowd, maybe his print audience are dogs and cats?
While we're in slay mode Rodney I wanted to address Tom Magnelson. What a nice unpretentious man who has made some very nice images over the years. Do you know Tom?

I have met Tom only a couple times. Once in his gallery in Jackson and again this past fall in Colorado while shooting. Just as an FYI - it's Mangelsen, not 'son'.

Now onto the statement made previously .....


I ran into Rodney one morning in Yosemite and a buddy and I shot the breeze with him for quite a while. He was a very nice guy, but did have a very high opinion of his own work. He said something to the effect that his work made Mangelson's work look like crap. Other than that, Rodney was a nice enough guy.

Harley, I remember meeting you at the tunnel view that day.

What was said, and not heard, was that I think Tom has done a great job with his work, that I like his animal shots, but that I don't really care for his landscapes. That's just my personal opinion.

I can hardly wait to see how this gets twisted now. I'm here to answer questions. I did not expose myself here for the lashings that I'm receiving. So, if you have questions about photography, locations, business, etc. I'm more than willing to answer them.

However, if you do not wish to have me as part of your pool to draw against, I am just as happy to leave.

Just let me know.

[jetcode]

Rodney thanks for the spelling correction. I met Tom once as was impressed by his art and his warmth. In my early days I purchased 3 of Tom's pieces, 1 landscape. I have 2 Cramer's as well and want to sell them all to make room for my work.

Justin, if you're hanging in Galen's gallery I need to get down there sometime soon.

Doug, Galen was a top shelf photographer but decided early on to use 35mm exclusively.
I've seen Rodney's work, IMO he is a fine landscape photographer all to his own.

Hopefully this venting will end and we can get on with the party!

[QT Luong]

"Lilly" has been banned. I suggest that regardless of legitimate suspicions that have arisen, forum participants take the high road and stop bringing up the "Lilly" incident, since this is not productive.

[Harley Goldman]

Hi Rodney!! Welcome to the forum and I really mean it. Good to have you on board. Your input and insights are most welcome and will be most valuable.

It was fun hanging out out in Yosemite with you and shooting the bull. I will stand by what I said, though. I may not have the words down exactly, but the gist of what you said was that your work was far better than his, not that you did not care for his landscapes (and for the record, I don't care for a few of his landscapes either). You were comparing your galleries to his in the conversation. I am fine with that, but I just got a kick out of what you said. Then again, I have a very strange sense of humor. BTW, it was not just what I heard, but also what my buddy heard. We talked about it later. Either way, no harm, no foul. It was just comments said when shooting the breeze.

Again, welcome aboard. Good to hear from you again!

[jetcode]

"Lilly" has been banned.

IMHO if someone is consistently malicious towards others they deserve to be banned as well. It's one thing to bring up issues it's another to continually insult.

[jetcode]

That's a lovely dune image on your website Harley.

[Harley Goldman]

Thanks Joe!

[Tony Karnezis]

"Lilly" has been banned. I suggest that regardless of legitimate suspicions that have arisen, forum participants take the high road and stop bringing up the "Lilly" incident, since this is not productive.

QT, Ted, I really hope you will allow this post. I have remained silent about the issue until now, and I'd like to speak up in attempt to clear the air.

The entire "Lilly" issue is very ironic. When Rodney called me to say that the PopPhoto article was finally on the newsstands, I told him that I'd make an announcement on this forum since he has never been a member. But when I went to do so, I saw that Lilly had already done so and generated quite a controversy. I emailed Rodney the post for him to follow.

Rodney was then placed in a rather awkward situation—to prove that he doesn’t know someone. Lilly emailed Rodney--just as some members of this forum suggested. She apologized for what was transpiring on the forum. I should know; Rodney forwarded me her email. So yes, Lilly has had contact with Rodney, but as Rodney has stated emphatically, both privately to Ted and publicly on this forum--he doesn't know her.

This brings me to my final point, which you could only know if you know Rodney—he is the straightest shooter I know. If he wanted to make an announcement on this forum, he wouldn’t sign up with a pseudonym and pretend to be a woman; he would sign up using his own name. Simply put, he is the last person I know who would resort to this sort of childish, deceitful, self-promoting behavior.