Well, I am sorry, I am going to have to discontinue...

[Dave Parker]

taking orders for a while, I am working very hard on getting caught up, and am on a break through to produce glass quicker, but am so overwhelmed with orders. that seeing the top of the heap in not in the cards for a while..And then I just got a note telling me, that my glass is useless! First time, I have heard that in 30 thousand plus screens in the market place! I was surprised! Anyway, I will post a note when I am caught up and am able to take orders again, but feel it is more important to get this caught up and get back on the plus side..

Thanks, for all the support, you have made us number one, but I feel I need to get things caught up before I can in good faith take anymore orders.

Dave Parker
Satin Snow Ground Glass

By the way, if someone can post this note over at APUG, I would be thankful as I can't post over there..

Thanks.

[BradS]

useless???

Yeah, I suppose it is useless if you're trying to paint a car with it or something????

WTF?

Dave, as you well know, I have several sheets of Satin Snow GG...even a few spares. I can assure you that it is far, far from useless. Damned goo product at a very fair price if you ask me.

Best Wishes. Stay warm and Dry.

Brad.

[Rory_5244]

Some people can be really mean. I got my first nasty email about my website and pictures today. I guess they'll be more of that over time. Don't let it get you down, though, keep on making your excellent glass.

[Jan Pedersen]

Dave, Posted on APUG under product availability .

Please make sure you take time off to to take some photos.


jan

[Dave Parker]

Hi Brad and Rory,

I am not down or mad, I am sure, it did not work out for him and I don't believe he was being mean at all, it happens, and I will refund his purchase, I have wrestled with this for quite a while now, and I just feel it is better that I service everybody who has ordered and get caught up, we are currently working on a method that will allow us to produce glass much faster, but I want to get this caught up and make sure everybody who is currently on order with us, get their screens. I am NOT going to stop making screens, and will make sure to keep everybody updated as to our schedules as well as when we are back to taking orders.

Thanks again guys..

Dave

[Dave Parker]

Thanks Jan,

No time off for a while, I will still be making glass, but want to try and get caught up..hopefully by this summer, because I would like to start working my wedding photography business again, so we are going to give it our all to do that.

Thanks for posting this for me.

Dave

[Jim Galli]

Well shoot! And our shower door is grungy! Guess I'll have to clean it instead of ordering one from you. Here's hoping things fall in place and get back in control very soon. We wish you the best.

[Sanjay Sen]

Thank goodness, you are just discontinuing taking orders for a while! Seeing the title of your thread, for a brief scary moment I thought you were getting out of the business. You can't scare us like that, Dave. :eek:

I hope things fall in place and work out well for you. And I hope you can go out and make some photographs too.


Best wishes,
Sanjay

[jetcode]

And then I just got a note telling me, that my glass is useless! First time, I have heard that in ...

Dave try not to over dramatize. I specifically stated that your GG is not as bright as the Shen-Hao 4x10 GG it was to replace. More specifically when I held each GG out of camera at arms length side by side in my living room looking out onto a white house at a short distance surrounded by forest and green landscape 90 degrees to the early afternoon sun at my right I was able to see image shapes and colors through the Shen-Hao glass while the SatinSnow remained opaque (frosted white). When I inspected the GG's closeup it appears the SatinSnow grain structure is much coarser and the possiblity that both sides are treated while it appears the Shen-Hao may have just one side treated. As usual there was a miss in the measurement taken and the new GG was too long to install and that's when I noticed the two GG's side by side. I discovered that what I already have is brighter by at least 1 stop than the SatinSnow and the SS GG became useless for me (I was expecting improvement in brightness) but not because it was poorly manufactured, it simply didn't outperform the Shen-Hao GG which surprised me.

Dave being the consummate business man is going to refund upon receipt of the GG. I had to pay shipping 3 times because of a Paypal address foul up which was corrected by an early email to Dave that went astray and when the package went out he unknowingly used the bad Paypal address that comes up automatically through the Paypal invoice. I have since figured out how to delete the bad address and this will no longer be an issue.


Joe

[RichSBV]

That's good new and bad news. From the thread title, I thought the worst...

I knew I should have ordered the glass I wanted... No problem as it's just spares.

Good luck Dave. Catch up, get well and do some shooting. Maybe even a vacation!

[Dave Parker]

Dave try not to over dramatize. I specifically stated that your GG is not as bright as the Shen-Hao 4x10 GG it was to replace. More specifically when I held each GG out of camera at arms length side by side in my living room looking out onto a white house at a short distance surrounded by forest and green landscape 90 degrees to the early afternoon sun at my right I was able to see image shapes and colors through the Shen-Hao glass while the SatinSnow remained opaque (frosted white). When I inspected the GG's closeup it appears the SatinSnow grain structure is much coarser and the possiblity that both sides are treated while it appears the Shen-Hao may have just one side treated. As usual there was a miss in the measurement taken and the new GG was too long to install and that's when I noticed the two GG's side by side and discovered that what I already have is brighter by a stop than the SatinSnow so yes the SatinSnow is/was useless for me but not because it was poorly manufactured. It simply didn't outperform the Shen-Hao GG which surprised me first. Dave being the consummate business man is going to refund upon receipt of the GG. I had to pay shipping 3 times because of a Paypal address foulup which was corrected by an early email to Dave that went astray and when the package went out he unknowingly used the bad Paypal address that comes up automatically through the Paypal invoice. I have since figured out how to delete the bad address and this will no longer be an issue.


Joe

Joe,

I am not over dramatizing anything, I stated what you stated to me, period, I am not mad, and I am not upset at all. By the way, you paid for shipping twice, because of the mix up on addresses, not three times, I screwed up once and gave you the wrong paypal address, which should be refunded to you.. I was just surprised is all, as I have been an OEM supplier for shen cameras, also, I will refund ALL of your outlay, including the shipping back to me, so other than being disappointed, you will not be out one cent, and I should be able to sell them to someone else..

So again Joe, don't take me wrong, I simply made a statement based on what was said to me, like I said, you surprised me, as you are the first that has found my glass less than what they had...in real ground glass, Of course mine are not enhanced screens, just plain old ground glass, which is only ground on one side.

Now as this shipment was shipped to the wrong address and I received it back open, I can't say what happened, I simply took it out of the opened package and sent it back out as soon as I got it back, I didn't see any damage, but I do have an inquiry in with the USPS, to try and figure out why it was fully opened and then taped back up. Anyway, no dramatization at all, simply stating what was stated to me, the matter is over and its no big deal..that said...

I would really be interested in seeing the screen in your Shen, it sounds like they may have stumbled on something new..

No hard feelings at all Joe..

Dave

[jetcode]

Now as this shipment was shipped to the wrong address and I received it back open, I can't say what happened, I simply took it out of the opened package and sent it back out as soon as I got it back, I didn't see any damage, but I do have an inquiry in with the USPS, to try and figure out why it was fully opened and then taped back up. Anyway, no dramatization at all, simply stating what was stated to me, the matter is over and its no big deal..that said...

I would really be interested in seeing the screen in your Shen, it sounds like they may have stumbled on something new..


I wish you could have been here to guide me and see for yourself. The glass I saw was taped shut and completely clean when unpacked. The Shen 4x10 GG I have has a grid on it. I think you can order it.

Thanks for taking the time to keep it straight.

Joe

[Dave Parker]

Joe,

I wish I could have been also, I do know that holding two screens up to the window, is not a correct test to see how a ground glass performs, but as it was the wrong size, I understand, you could not install it in your camera, there is much more to a screen, than holding it up to a light, I remember once in the past, that a guy, put my screen next to his screen on a light table and took light measurement readings with his light meter, and proclaimed mine was not as bright, and a few people suggested he install it in his camera, which he did, and he was quite pleased as the dispersement of light was quite a bit more even than what he had, and with a lens focused on it, the image projected was even, with no hot spot.. Anyway, that is here not there, I will refund when I get it back..not a problem..

If I can ever help out in the future, please let me know..and again, I will have to go looking to see what Shen is doing, because I have made quite a few screen for them as well as their distributor in both the US as well as Europe.

Dave

[jetcode]

there is much more to a screen, than holding it up to a light, I remember once in the past, that a guy, put my screen next to his screen on a light table and took light measurement readings with his light meter, and proclaimed mine was not as bright, and a few people suggested he install it in his camera, which he did, and he was quite pleased as the dispersement of light was quite a bit more even than what he had, and with a lens focused on it, the image projected was even, with no hot spot.. Anyway, that is here not there, I will refund when I get it back..not a problem..


my GG definitely has a hot spot however the light is dispersed fairly well and the hot spot is not a problem for me, grain is, and I wish I could get a better balanced image without grain. That said what I have works fine. I can focus a lens properly.

[Dave Parker]

Okay Joe,

I do hope you find a screen that gives you the balance you are looking for, I don't know that it is possible to produce a true ground glass screen without grain, by the very nature of grinding glass, or even acid etching glass, there is going to be grain. You might want to investigate some of the enhanced screens, that are made with alternate materials, I have played with various substances and have be able to produce a screen with out grain, but they were very delicate and scratched very easy, it is unfortunate, there really is no silver bullet when dealing with the laws of optics..I wish there were..

Anyway, good shooting.

Dave

[Michael Graves]

Bummer. Too bad the "useless" one wasn't a 5x7. I'da taken it off their hands for them. Guess I have to order an inferior ground glass now.

Double bummer.

[jetcode]

I do hope you find a screen that gives you the balance you are looking for

I have and I thought it could be improved upon but that is qualitative depending on preferences of the user

[Daniel_Buck]

Dave, for those of us who do have back orders, would it be helpful to you if we requested a cancellation of the order, if we aren't in dire need of the glass? I ordered mine in September as spare glass in the event that one of my screens breaks (one of mine did, which prompted the order! but it's been replaced already), or in the event that I pick up another 4x5 with no glass. Even with no Fresnel I would at least have a good piece of glass in there to get the camera started. Getting a refund and having my name off the order list wouldn't hurt me to much. If it helps you, I'd love to help, especially since I'm not in a hot need for the glass anymore :-)

[Dave Parker]

Hi Daniel,

That would be at your option, right now, one of the major things that is causing this situation is I have 3 very large orders from Camera companies as well as a couple of distributors, I mean in the hundreds of pieces range each, I am just about done with them, onces they are done, I can get back on retail orders, in which I can get several retail one and two piece orders out in a day, I try to do everything in order, in which these company orders came in quite a while back, and I don't want to hold their camera orders up. We will not be offline for long, just enough time to get everything caught up as I possibly can, and if my new development works out as well as I think it can and has shown in testing, then it will pretty much become a moot point as we will be able to speed production up, by at least 100%.

Thanks.

Dave

[Daniel_Buck]

Good luck with it Dave! I'll keep my order on there then :-)

[Nate Battles]

Keep my order in there Dave! Good luck with the work. I am really anxious to check out your ground glass!

[Dave Parker]

I returned a 5x7 as well so place your order - I'll stick to my inferior glass

Joe,

You and I are cool, I have no problems, I don't think sarcasm is needed..

Dave

[Kuzano]

You can satisfy some of the people all the time,
You can satisfy all of the people some of the time,
You can satisfy none of the people some of the time,
You can satisfy some of the people none of the time,
You can occasionally satisfy a first date,
You can never satisfy a blind date,
And somewhere in the world there is one whiney A$$hole who will buy your product based on the good name you have built for yourself, and regardless of what he really thinks of it, he will complain, with GOD as his witness, that your product is worthless.

Oh, and there is only one guy like this in the whole world. How did you find him?

[Dave Parker]

Come on Guys...

Joe and I are fine, we don't need this, I simply wanted to get a handle on things and felt this was the best way to do it, stepping back, upping production and full filling orders I have on file, as well as getting my production capabilities higher..so doing this, is not needed...We are still making glass, and I will continue to ship everything I can get out...when I feel I am caught up, I will again, start up the online ordering, it is a simple business choice that is all..

If the moderation team deems it needed, I would have no problem with this thread being locked.

Dave

[jetcode]

Joe,

You and I are cool, I have no problems, I don't think sarcasm is needed..

Dave

Dave it wasn't intended towards you however I get a little pissy being misrepresented by others and the word 'useless' had a specific private intention that became public

this has turned into a beat up the dumbshit who doesn't get it thread

[Dave Parker]

Joe,

It does not need to be, it was a flippant remark on my part that I should not have posted, I apologize, please guys, don't do this...

Dave

[Jim Jones]

. . ., I remember once in the past, that a guy, put my screen next to his screen on a light table and took light measurement readings with his light meter, and proclaimed mine was not as bright, . . .

It's a great way to check the brightness -- of a wannabe expert!

[seawolf66]

AS: Mr Parker stated as he did which is a business statement in my book and the customer should have left it alone and if he could not then he should have e-mail mr parker rather than make it whizzing contest and degrade this subject that way: My 1/10 of a cent comments here; who will be happy when dave gets to doing my Ground glass which has to be better than one I have on the old Pony Premo #6
Take care dave :\\\Lauren

[Dave Parker]

I made a flippant statement which I should not have, It was not Joe, it was purely and simply me...Thanks for the support all, but I am the one at fault in this situation.

Dave

[Carol Flutot]

Lets all remember the type of year Dave had last year and had to go through, that many of us would have just thrown in the towel, but not Dave.

Let all just wish him the best, let him gets caught up as his time allows and let things
get back to normal for him and his family and his buisness.

Take Care Dave!

Carol

[Petzval Paul]

Just wanted to mention how much I love my Satin Snow GG! It really is a great product at a terrific price and well worth the wait. Thanks for sticking it out and continuing to manufacture such a fine product, Dave.

- Paul