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Zack Widup
4-Feb-2008, 08:35
Hi,

I have a Turner-Reich 7.5 inch lens in a Rapax shutter I've been using for several years for 4X5 and 5X7 format. The shutter has developed some problems recently especially with the slower speeds.

I have had this shutter almost completely apart a couple years ago to repair a problem with the iris but I didn't clean or lubricate it then. It worked fine after that up till recently.

I could send it to SK Grimes but I thought I'd give it a try myself, since I've had it apart and got it back together successfully before.

I have obtained the repair manual for the Rapax shutter. My question is about the lubricants to use. The manual mentions a machine oil and a grease but doesn't give any specific manufacturers or specs for the oil and grease. Does anyone know which lubricants to use and where they could be obtained?

Thanks!

Zack

lenser
4-Feb-2008, 09:05
Two things, Zack. Both take you to Carol Miller at Flutotscamerarepair.com.

One, she is fantastic on CLA's, extremely reasonable at around $50.00 and sends you a complete chart on the marked and actual speeds on the finished job.

Second, if you are sure you want to do this yourself, the links on her site are extensive and you may find the lubricants you want in one of her contacts.

Good Luck.

Tim

mrladewig
4-Feb-2008, 14:19
I'd also suggest Carol. She recently CLA'd a 1970s Compur for me and it came back spot on at every time and everything is smooth.

I would imagine that there are much better lubricants available today than were specified for the shutter way back when. Tri-lube for instance is a bicycle chain lubricant that "dries" and won't leave a big mess. Something like this stays with the part but doesn't "freeze" in the cold. I would think this would be a good lubricant for the shutter internals.

But as for machine oil and grease, specifically for the oil, you'd need to find out which weight or specification they were talking about. Could be heavy gear oil 75W 90W or light oil like a 5W, or something even lighter. Once you get into the correct weight, you should have a few options. Again, with the grease you'd need to find out which type.

Alan Davenport
4-Feb-2008, 15:51
Lighter fluid.

mrladewig
4-Feb-2008, 16:09
Lighter fluid.

As cleaner or lubricant?

Zack Widup
5-Feb-2008, 09:47
Thanks for the help!

I will contact Carol at Flutot's, which is an option.

I was looking for lubricants, not cleaners. I have all sorts of solvents that will work as cleaners.

I think I tracked down the lubricants I need at http://www.micro-tools.com

Zack

Alan Davenport
5-Feb-2008, 14:53
As cleaner or lubricant?

As a cleaner. This has been around as a DIY CLA method for a long time. I've cleaned up and revived two shutters by sloshing them around in a jar of lighter fluid. I reoil the shaft ends using a toothpick to transfer microdrops of oil. Both shutters came back to life with all speeds serviceable, and both still work after several years.

mrladewig
5-Feb-2008, 14:56
As a cleaner. This has been around as a DIY CLA method for a long time. I've cleaned up and revived two shutters by sloshing them around in a jar of lighter fluid. I reoil the shaft ends using a toothpick to transfer microdrops of oil. Both shutters came back to life with all speeds serviceable, and both still work after several years.

That's what I thought.

The fellow was asking about the lubricants, and I sure thought the lighter fluid sounded like an awfully strange lubricant.

Zack Widup
6-Feb-2008, 07:36
Well, that's an interesting idea. Don't take it too far apart, just dunk the whole shutter (minus the lens elements of course) in the naphtha?

Some of my favorite solvents are alcohol, xylol, trichlor (non-flammable), MEK (dangerous stuff but one of the few epoxy solvents), acetone, naphtha, and for those really serious hydrocarbon deposits, Gunk (contains a little of everything). Some of these are safe on most paints, some aren't; some dissolve plastic and some don't.

Zack

Ralph Barker
6-Feb-2008, 08:32
The advantage of having Carol do the work is, that should you decide to sell the lens, "CLA'ed by Carol Miller on xx/xx/xx" would be a positive selling point. "Cleaned it myself" might not be, but should be disclosed, nonetheless.

Alan Davenport
6-Feb-2008, 08:34
Well, that's an interesting idea. Don't take it too far apart, just dunk the whole shutter (minus the lens elements of course) in the naphtha?

That's it in a nutshell. I took the front cover off, filled a container with about 3/4" of the lighter fluid (not inside the house, BTW) and plunked the shutter into it. (Don't neglect to remove the lens elements first.) Every few minutes, I sloshed things around and made sure to get some fresh fluid up onto any parts that weren't fully submerged. After an hour or so in the lighter fluid, pull it out and figure out how to get it dry.

That's the big problem. I used a "canned air" type duster to blow the fluid out of the tight spots as best I could. Position the aperture fully closed, let the blades air dry, then open the aperture and close it again; the blades will pick up more fluid from where you can't get the canned air. Same for the shutter blades; every time you fire the shutter the blades will come out covered in lighter fluid. It takes a while but eventually everything will dry out. Figure a couple of days, literally.

Then reoil the shaft ends by using a toothpick to transfer a tiny drop of oil to each. No oil on any of the gear teeth. That's where I stopped and put the covers back on.

Disclaimer: I did an Alphax 4 shutter and a little Graphex with a 90mm on a Speed Graphic. The first was over 4 years ago and the second about 3 years. Both still work accurately on all speeds. I have few if any reservations about using lo-tech procedures on what I know to be lo-tech machines. YMMV.

Zack Widup
7-Feb-2008, 07:50
Thanks Alan.

Sort of like cleaning a carburetor, I guess. I've done a lot of those in my time. :)

Carol's rates are very reasonable. I'll probably send it to her, but I might try this cleaning technique too. I don't think too much could be damaged on this all-metal shutter by doing it that way - I'd just be concerned about getting all the sticky lubricant, etc. out. Maybe give it another bath in fresh lighter fluid after the first round.

BrianShaw
7-Feb-2008, 07:55
Thanks Alan.

Sort of like cleaning a carburetor, I guess.

Not exactly - it's more like cleaning a pocket watch.

wclavey
7-Feb-2008, 09:24
I have done the exact procedure that Alan outlined on 6 shutters, including one ancient TLR shutter. Four of them came out perfect, just as he described. Two of them, however, still had performance problems and I sent them both to Carol. They, too, are now perfect, and they have the "CLA by Carol @ Flutot's on xx/xx/xx" stamp of approval.

And then there was the one disaster shutter that now rests quietly with as many pieces as I could find in a ziplock bag...

Matt Erck
9-Feb-2008, 07:13
As I'm new to this forum and LF in general (actually I havent even fired a shot yet), I apologize in advance for my possibly simple questions.

I have a Kodak Flash Supermatic Shutter with an Ektar 203mm lens.

It appears the shutter works, but I imagine it hasnt been used in 5-10+ years. I have some film being sent next week and I'm trying to get the camera ready to use. I was going to just take a few shots and see how they work before I sent the shutter in to Carol, but I stumbled across this thread and thought that this might be a nice little project to try before the film gets in. It doesnt seem that these directions could lead to any catastrophe. Any suggestions on whether this procedure can be performed on a Supermatic Shutter?

And here is the beginner question.....How do I remove the lens from the shutter? I've figured out how to remove the lens board, but I can seem to get the lens off the shutter.

lenser
9-Feb-2008, 07:30
I know next to nothing about shutters except to trust them to an expert, BUT; I do know that some of my really ancient ones have blades made of something other than metal. Maybe a Bakelite type of plastic or a hardened paper like product, I'm not sure.)

If you are certain of the composition of yours and that your solvents cannot hurt any of the internal parts, you're probably okay to proceed as others have described. If there is a chance that your's contains plastics or hardened paper parts or something that might be rubberized deep in the guts, I suggest you let a pro handle it (we all seem to gravitate toward Carol) simply because its awfully hard to find replacement parts for some of these really vintage pieces.

Good Luck!

Tim

Matt Erck
9-Feb-2008, 14:04
How do you remove the lens from the shutter?

wclavey
9-Feb-2008, 16:16
The front and rear cells should each unscrew as a unit from the shutter. If the shutter is very old or if the cells have not been removed in a long time, they might be very tight. I have found that one of the rubber jar openners (red or blue rubber pads that are about 1/16 inch thick) have been very useful to be able to grip the metal edges of the cell to loosen them. I have not, luckily, had to use anything more forceful than that. The cell then unscrews.

Be careful that there may be spacers inside the threads (very thin metal rings, usually) that may be making sure that the two cells are the right distance apart when the lens is assembled back on the shutter. Make notes as you disassemble it, if so, to be sure to get them back in the right places.

Paul Fitzgerald
10-Feb-2008, 11:54
Zach,

"Carol's rates are very reasonable. I'll probably send it to her, but I might try this cleaning technique too. I don't think too much could be damaged on this all-metal shutter by doing it that way - I'd just be concerned about getting all the sticky lubricant, etc. out. Maybe give it another bath in fresh lighter fluid after the first round."

If it is a Rapax #3, top speed 1/200, DO NOT DO THIS. The aperture blades are made of .004" copper and do not have pins in the ends, they are only pierced thru so there are only 4 tiny fingers engaging the action and anchor plates. The surface tension from the naphtha is enough to shear the fingers and you CAN ruin the aperture doing this. It only takes 1 blade to drop to start the cascade effect.

Send it out for a proper CLA, it's cheaper.

Good luck with it.