developing 8x10, with out a darkroom?

[Daniel_Buck]

I'm going to be trying some 8x10 to see how I like it. I don't have a dark room, and I have no possibility of making one (very limited space, and I'd rather not go that route anyway).

I know one option is sending off the film to be developed, but I kinda like doing it myself, and it's probably cheaper.

The way I started out developing my 4x5, was I would stuff a negative curled up into a daylight tank (meant for a few reels of 135, or 120) and filled up the tank, and did standing, or inverting developing (ended up inverting most of the time)

So, could I do the same thing with an 8x10, if i could find a tank large enough? (maybe a tank meant for developing prints?). I'm guessing that since such a large volume of chemical would be needed, it would probably be more economical to use a thinner mixture, and just let it stand for a longer time (rather than a stronger mixture, and trying to invert)

At any rate, if I do enjoy shooting and processing the 8x10, it would probably not become my main medium, since 4x5 gives me the resolution and capabilities I need when scanning. I would reserve the 8x10 for subjects when I would like a larger negative, for keepsake mostly. So, whatever developing method i come up with, wouldn't have to be used very often, and wouldn't have to be super efficient.

Any thoughts on that? I think my changing tent is large enough to load and unload 8x10 film, but I could pick up a larger tent if I needed to.

[Bruce Watson]

Jobo 3005 Expert Drum with a Jobo roller base. You can load the drum in your changing tent. Daylight process film anywhere you've got a flat and level 1x2 foot space. The reason to use a Jobo tank is even development. You can really see it in clear skies for example.

[Nick_3536]

1) Closet etc for loading film loaders and tanks

2) Jobo or other print tanks

3) Unicolor or similar print tank roller

Thats about it.

[Vaughn]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=32194&highlight=8x10+Jobo

The above thread should help you...plus there are a ton of more threads if you do a search for "Jobo" and "8x10.

It is very doable.

Vaughn

[Daniel_Buck]

Can it be done with out a roller? Would a longer period of stand developing work ok? Or would that promote noticeably uneven developing? Is a roller nessisary? I've never done anything with a roller. I've had no problems with invert developing with my 4x5's (either with the empty tank method, or with the Jobo and reels), if possible I'd like to keep the same methods for the 8x10, instead of getting more equipment (like rollers?) Unless the results are not going to be good on an 8x10 without a roller.

The 3005, how does it load, do you just stuff the 8x10 in there curled up, like i used to do with my 4x5s? (only, probably one at a time with 8x10 I imagine?)

http://404photography.net/wip/4x5/4x5_tank_01.jpg

[Herb Cunningham]

At one time I developed 8x10 film in trays in my bathtub, kneeling over the edge. I also developed it in ss tanks with hangers, each tank holding a gallon. Printing is easier with a print frame and contact paper, ie. Bergger or AZO because they are not so light sensitive.

That should give you a feel for 8x10. At my age I don't do the kneeling bit anymore, plus I built a darkroom.

You might want to look at 5x7. It gives a wonderful look in the gg and is a lot easier to work with. Problem with 5x7 is that you will eventually have an enlarger.

Paula Chamlee was contact printing some 2 1/4 square stuff not too long ago, so contact prints are certainly worthwile.

[John O'Connell]

If 8x10 is purely an occasional thing for you, and you really don't want to go to the effort of blacking out a bathroom and using your tub, just send the sheets out for development. You could process a good amount of film for the cost of a 3005 drum, and that's not counting the foot pump or the roller base.

[Daniel_Buck]

Would it be worth picking up a daylight print tube, and trying stand developing? I may give it a try just to see for myself. I could pick up an "Extension Module" for my current Jobo tank.

[John O'Connell]

Sure it'd be worth a try. People have reported issues on and off with the JOBO print drums, with various claimed fixes. Filling it up and standing it would solve all of those.

Dunno if bromide drag would be an issue. Uneven development in even-textured areas seems likely, but it's just hours of your time and $3 in film, right?

[Daniel_Buck]

Sure it'd be worth a try. People have reported issues on and off with the JOBO print drums, with various claimed fixes. Filling it up and standing it would solve all of those.

Dunno if bromide drag would be an issue. Uneven development in even-textured areas seems likely, but it's just hours of your time and $3 in film, right?
Yea, it wouldn't take to much time and money to give it a shot, but if it's already general knowledge that it won't work, then I'd rather not waste my time :) I think I'll give it a shot once I've converted my cambo to 8x10.

I should probably start another thread on this (or at least look around first) but I'm using HC110 to develop, I wonder what a good "standing" mixture would be? For my inverting mixture, I already run it a bit thin, 31:1000 from the bottle (not the syringe). For my previous standing tests, I've used the same mixture, just let it stand for longer than I would usually give it for inversion. I wonder how thin I could take the HC110, to fill a larger tube with out using to much more developer?

[John Kasaian]

Unicolor processor. $30-40 on ebay. Take a gander at the link on the LF Home Page on the blue banner above. You'll want a print (or paper) drum not the film drum (which is for roll film reels) An 8x10 drum will hold one sheet of film, the 11x14 will take two (but it takes some practice!) You'll only need a dark space to unload your film holder and load the drum, but apparently you've got that if you're loading your film holders, right??

It's what I use:D

[Daniel_Buck]

I'm using a changing tent to load/unload my holders and tank.

I'll see if I can get one of the unicolor rollers, I see a few online right now. That would probably be better than standing development, I assume.

Thanks!

[Jim Jones]

A totally dark room, a few trays, and a digital kitchen timer would also work. With continuous agitation you won't need much chemicals.

[Daniel_Buck]

unfortunatly, I don't have alot of space. My tub has a sliding door, so only 1/2 of the tub is available to lean over, my sink counter in the bathroom is very small (only a bit larger than the sink itself) same thing with my kitchen, almost no counter space. I suppose I could get a table and make my whole living room dark, but that's more than I want to get into right now.

[Daniel_Buck]

Thanks for the vote of confidence DannL, hopfully I can snag one of the Unirollers, there are a few of them online right now. 475ml of fluid is not bad at all! That's about 1/2 of what I'm using to develop my 4x5's with inversion! haha! I might have to switch my 4x5s to the roller, if I find I like it.

[John Kasaian]

FWIW I've never had a problem with scratching in the Unicolor. I "operate" in the kitchen (closer to the beer!) and use the buzzer on the oven clock for a timer. In Greywolf Phillips' article you'll notice he's got some little plastic mixing cups for chemicals. I use the same stuff (.39 cents at Wal-mart IIRC) and even color coded them with tape just like Mr. Phillips. That way I've always got the next "shot" ready to pour in. This saves a bit of time.

[cotdt]

Just send out the sheets and get it developed as a positive. then you won't have to worry about making prints.

[Daniel_Buck]

how do you tell which is which, (paper, or film drum/tank) without seeing inside them? The ones I'm looking at on ebay only say either "Unicolor Uniroller #352 with 8x10 drum" or "Unicolor Uniroller #352 with 8x10 tank" and don't show any photos of the inside

[John Kasaian]

One thing to be aware of if you go the Unicolor route is that there is a gasket for the lid of the drum. Sometimes you'll find a leaker and Unicolor replacements are no longer available, however they are easily home made---there are posts in the archives on different ways to do this (search "unicolor" and that should turn up a wealth of info) sooooo the first thing you do when you get one is put water in it, replace the lid and roll it around, then check the gasket for leaks.

[Daniel_Buck]

Thanks for the tip John!

[Nick_3536]

The unicolor roller handles Jobo drums just fine. At least if you are using midsize tanks. So lots of choices for tanks.

[John Kasaian]

Stop the train! Stop the train!

I did an inspection on the drum to determine why I haven't scratched negatives when others may have. All four of the drums I use have a small "tooth" at the top of the V shaped guide. Yes, this could definitely scratch the back of a negative. Especially if the base material is soft. I tested this with a 8x10 negative, and after inserting and removing the negative multiple times I was able to produce several light marks on the back surface, viewable with a loupe. So, can this be circumvented? Sure. As a preventive measure I suppose I should insert a piece of transparency film in the drum first, followed by the film to be developed.
:D

Or grind that sucker off and polish with a dremel:D

[cotdt]

Is a darkroom needed for making 4x5" contact prints? I don't have a darkroom, but I do have a dark room. I have very limited space, and the room is not completely dark due to stray light coming from under the door. For negative development, I have a changing bag, but the equipment for contact printing wouldn't fit inside a changing bag. Could I still make contact prints?

[Darryl Baird]

Daniel,

I use my basement/laundry room for processing film, including 4X5 and 8X10 film. I use a Uniroller reversing motor base, Jobo 2551 drums with 2509 reels for 4x5 and the same reels are used (minus the middle two reel sections to accommodate just the top and bottom of the 8x10 sheet) to hold the film to the drum sides. I don't see any problems with the film, but I am careful when removing the reels after development... a few scratches taught that caution. It's cheap and easy enough for my occasional 8x10 needs.

[Chris Strobel]

unfortunatly, I don't have alot of space. My tub has a sliding door, so only 1/2 of the tub is available to lean over, my sink counter in the bathroom is very small (only a bit larger than the sink itself) same thing with my kitchen, almost no counter space. I suppose I could get a table and make my whole living room dark, but that's more than I want to get into right now.

Just lift the sliding door up, pull out, put in hallway, reverse procedure when done.I do all my 8x10 in trays in tub.Perfect negs everytime.

[Daniel_Buck]

Chris, the sliding doors are heavy glass, I'm not quite sure I'd like to do that :-( Thanks for the suggestion though!

[Dave Moeller]

Consider this another vote for starting out with the 8x10 Unicolor Print Drum and the motor base. That's how I started developing 8x10, and it worked great. Slow, of course, doing one sheet at a time, but I never had any problems with uneven development or scratches. (I actually did scratch one negative, but with my thumbnail, not the drum.) I eventually got a larger drum to do multiple 8x10 sheets.

I've always done a two minute pre-soak with the drums (500ml water in the 8x10). I don't know if this helps, but it's what I've done and eveything's worked out for me.

Bruce Wehman has information on a daylight tank for 8x10 that uses 8x10 film hangers: http://www.wehmancamera.com/tank.htm I finally picked up some film hangers on eBay, and I'm going to build one of these for myself.

Best of luck.

[Daniel_Buck]

I've got a uniroller and drum on the way :) Thanks everyone!

[Joan Girdler]

Glad to have found this thread. Am new to all of this, but just purchased a Shadow Box
film tent, a Jobo 3005 expert drum and a Jobo roller manual roller base for my 8x10 negs. There are at least five found holes in the tank. Does one roll up the negative and place in these holes? How does the chemistry cover the film when it is rolled? If you do roll the film, and I don't see any other way by looking at the drum, do you roll with the emulsion side in or out? Help?

[John Kasaian]

Is a darkroom needed for making 4x5" contact prints? I don't have a darkroom, but I do have a dark room. I have very limited space, and the room is not completely dark due to stray light coming from under the door. For negative development, I have a changing bag, but the equipment for contact printing wouldn't fit inside a changing bag. Could I still make contact prints?

Block the outside light with an old towel rolled up. If you have room for a sheet of glass, a box of paper, and some trays (which could be stacked in need be) a safelight and timer you can probably make contacts.

[Daniel_Buck]

just as a followup, I've developed a few sheets already, and it seems to be working just great! I think I nailed the developing time on the roller on the first shot. I may try some variations, but I'm happy with the density already. Thanks to everyone for the advice and info! :-)