BBC series - the genius of photography

[ageorge]

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[Joanna Carter]

Just out of curiosity, do you have permission from the BBC to post copies of copyright material ?

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

Probably not, it appears this guy just does whatever the hell he wants without any thought.

[Joanna Carter]

If you really think that any production company allows unlimited distribution of their material, then you are mistaken. Just because other sites may have made this content available doesn't mean you can do likewise. I note that you have removed the link from your original post, do you not think it wise to remove the content from your site also ?

[ageorge]

Since the BBC is a government run monopoly, it does release many of its shows as freely distributable downloads. The Brits pay a specific tax to cover the BBC thus their content is treaded more liberally than a the typical private company would. The BBC even has their own media player for this purpose. I couldn't confirm that this series was released in this way and is why I removed the post.

The rather popular photo log below has links to youtube, straight video, and bit torrent links.

http://www.shanelavalette.com/journal/2007/11/27/the-genius-of-photography/

[Joanna Carter]

Since the BBC is a government run monopoly,
No it isn't. A monopoly is an entity that is the only source of supply for a comodity; there are plenty of other broadcasters here in the UK.


it does release many of its shows as freely distributable downloads. The Brits pay a specific tax to cover the BBC thus their content is treaded more liberally than a the typical private company would. The BBC even has their own media player for this purpose.
True but most of what they, along with other broadcasters make available is either limited in its content or duration. And that which they do make available is not *re-*distributable. Broadcasters choose their distribution channels with a view to making revenue through those channels, yes, even the BBC has to pay its own way otherwise we citizens would have to pay a lot more than the £135.50 per year that we pay now.

Since you are not even a licence payer in the UK, I have to ask what makes you think you have a right to freely give away something that I have had to pay for, even if I were not to watch it?


The rather popular photo log below has links to youtube, straight video, and bit torrent links.
Just because someone else has the nerve to rip off copyright work doesn't make it right. Or how would you like it I obtained copies of your photographs and made money out of selling them and not even giving you acknowledgement of being the author, let alone any of the proceeds of the sales? If I may quote from your website...

© 2007 Alan George. All rights reserved. Images may not be reproduced in any form without the express written permission of the copyright holder.

I note that you still haven't removed the content from your website, don't you think, given that you are also a content producer possibly hoping that people won't rip you off, that it would be a good idea not to taint your reputation with such malpractice, and remove the content, not just the link?

Oh, and dont forget the link you have left on digitalimagecafe, or is that why you have retained the content?

[Maretzo]

Hi all,

I think this thread should be moved to the lounge.
What started as an innocent and friendly link to an interesting movie turned to arguments between lawyers!
It would be nice not to monitor others' activities and behaviour with a watchful juridical eye all the time, but to think photography!
I believed it was the purpose of this large format forum.
Stop arguing about the law and show us your pictures, please.

Maretz

NB: if it can be downloaded, then it might be copyright-free.

[Joanna Carter]

What started as an innocent and friendly link to an interesting movie turned to arguments between lawyers!
I am definitely not a lawyer, just someone who makes her living out of my creativity, both as a software consultant and as a photographer.


It would be nice not to monitor others' activities and behaviour with a watchful juridical eye all the time, but to think photography!
I believed it was the purpose of this large format forum.
I'm sorry, you obviously wouldn't mind if someone took money out of your bank account without permission, denying you the funds you need to live. Infringement of copyright costs people their livelihoods. If we all just took what we wanted without paying, then there would be a lot of people, including ourselves, that could no longer make enough money to support ourselves and some would even resort to theft, just to survive.

And talking of theft, that is exactly what the unauthorised copying and distribution of copyright material amounts to.


Stop arguing about the law and show us your pictures, please.
Ah, so you can use them without my permission to make money for yourself? :eek:


NB: if it can be downloaded, then it might be copyright-free.
The BBC programs in question here are not available for free download either from the BBC or from Wall to Wall Productions, the files that are available would have to have been ripped from a DVD or digital TV broadcast. Whilst it may be fine to make recordings of programs for your own use, the redistribution or rebroadcasting of those programs to other people is theft, pure and simple.

As I said in my last reply to Alan, how would you like it if I made my living ripping off your images and selling them without your consent?

[Ted Harris]

I tend to agree with Joana. I went and looked at the files. They are all RAR file segments which need to be pieced together to be useable ... doesn't necessarily mean they are pirated content but it is a strong indication as this is a common method used for the distribution of pirated material.

[Ron Bose]

Without angering anyone else regarding the topic of copyright ...

As an expat Brit living in Canada, I have to say that North American TV sucks. The BBC is an incredible broadcaster with excellent content. Without this post I would never have known that this series even existed. It's highly unlikely that it would have made it over to North America either as broadcast or even DVD (which I would have been more than happy to purchase).

I do get BBC Canada in my digital cable package, but they seem to concentrate on reruns of Absolutely Fabulous and EastEnders (god help us).

If only the beeb would have a worldwide satellite or cable distribution !!!

Now, if you do want to get into piracy, how many photography enthusists and even pros have pirated copied of Photoshop or Lightroom on their computers and make money from them ?? Before anyone asks, I have paid for and licensed copies of both, despite the fact that my revenue from photography can barely justify the cost.

[Annie M.]

Well done Joanna.... this site is much more than just an online photo album... clarification of copyright issues is important.

Thanks... Annie

... oh and Alan by the way... YouTube is currently involved in one of the largest copyright lawsuits in history so I would not rely on them as the absolute as to what is proper usage of material.

[Marko]

by the way... YouTube is currently involved in one of the largest copyright lawsuits in history so I would not rely on them as the absolute as to what is proper usage of material.

Perhaps we should leave it to YouTube and the other party to sort it out legally, then, before playing "concerned citizens"? We still live, or at least are supposed to live, in a society based on presumption of innocence and on burden of proof.

But yeah, I agree, good job everybody, yet another interesting and potentially useful thread killed, efficiently and thoroughly. And it took only a few messages this time while in the past it usually took about 30 or so before the nastiness even started. :rolleyes:

Off the main topic here, but what the Hell, the thread is already shot anyway - I really hope there is still someone left up there who's concerned about the direction this forum seems to be taking lately, because it already bears very little resemblance to the LF forum of a year or two ago, when people came here to have a friendly discussion about photography AND other intellectual topics. There was an occasional flame war here and there, but it would usually start long into the otherwise lively and meaningful discussion and the only causes were Pyro, VC and Jorge. Oh, and JJ - those of us who remember JJ will know what I have in mind.

[ageorge]

Joanna is right.

This series is available to download from multiple very public places and based on this I made the assumption that the content was unencumbered. I should not have assumed this, especially as a photographer.

I have removed the files.

[Annie M.]

Well done Alan.... I can hardly wait until the series is broadcast here... before this thread I didn't even know it existed.

Thanks... Annie

[Joanna Carter]

Thanks Alan, I'm sorry if I came on strong, it just really gets to me when people think they have a right to copy stuff. My stand costs me plenty but, at least it gives me the right to get protective about my own work. Nonetheless, at least folks got to know about the series. ;)

[Annie M.]

Yes.... the series will be aired here starting January 25... anyone want me to copy it for them? (kidding!!)

[Joanna Carter]

Yes.... the series will be aired here starting January 25...
And where is "here"? :confused:

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

This is simptomatic of people like Marko who only use digital and belive they have a right to copy and do whatever they want. They complaint about people who rightly so point out that posting copyright material is wrong no matter how well intentioned was the purpose of the posting.
And the complain on the basis that "you are no nasty"..... Joanna, you did nothing wrong, nor where you comming on "too strong". You rightly so pointed out something that was wrong and should not be allowed in this forum.

I do commend ageroge for listening and removing the links, I would have loved to see the series, but I will wait until I can do it legally.

[IanG]

Jorge, I'm waiting for it to be shown here in Turkey, but pigs will probably fly first, or it will be dubbed.

It would be excellent if the BBC was to broadcast programmes like this on the international BBC channels available on cable and satellite. But I guess they'd prefer to sell the programmes to other TV stations.

Ian

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

I can watch BBC America, but I doubt it will be aired there... :(

[tim atherton]

I think it's going to be shown on Ontario TV (?) and The Knowledge Network in Canada sometime

I've seen the "Paper Movies" episode which was bookended by Martin Parr and John Gossage photographing on a road trip to see William Eggleston in Memphis - it was actually pretty good

[Ron Bose]

TVO Ontario's PBS ...

[Steve Gledhill]

As a side comment to the copyright matters discussed in this thread - the series was excellent. It was presented in six one hour episodes covering the history of photography. That's full hours - no adverts - that's why I willingly pay my £135.50 p.a. (70c per day) to the BBC. Well illustrated, presented and seemingly well researched. I hope it gets widely distributed. Why not try lobbying the BBC or asking what its plans are?

[tim atherton]

it has been sold to ABC (Australia), Ovation (USA), Ontario TV and the Knowledge Network (Canada), VRT (Belgium), Canal+ (Poland), HBO Spektrum (Hungary & Czech Republic), and Sogecable (Spain).

It was already shown on Ovation in the US - before Xmas

http://www.ovationtv.com/aboutus/pressrelease/pressreleasedetail.aspx?id=20

[Steve Gledhill]

Here's the BBC web page for the series ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/photography/genius/

[Annie M.]

Starts January 25 on the Knowledge Network in BC...

here is the schedule from their site...

http://tvschedule.knowledgenetwork.ca/knsch/KNSeriesPage.jsp?seriesID=14593884&seriesTitle=thegeniusofphotography

[Andrew O'Neill]

Thanks for that info, Annie!

[tim atherton]

Just saw the first episode on TVO - it was actually pretty good... especially for a TV programme

[adrian tyler]

good book too, very down to earth and informative.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Genius-Photography-Gerry-Badger/dp/1844003639/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200673573&sr=1-1

[Walter Foscari]

Yep, TVO showed episode 1 last night. Better than expected.
Tim you get TVO out west?

Walter

[Andy K]

If you can't get it on TV get the book. 'The Genius Of Photography, How photography has changed our lives' by Gerry Badger. ISBN 978 184400 363 1