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David Spivak-Focus Magazine
2-Jan-2008, 21:26
Lodima Press, a publishing company known for their incredibly high quality books of photography is joining forces with Focus Fine Art Photography Magazine to form Focus Fine Art Photography Publishing. Lodima Press has published books from the likes of Robert Adams, Paul Caponigro, Keith Carter, Larry Fink, Arthur Tress, Brett Weston and Edward Weston. Focus Magazine, a magazine dedicated to collectors of fine art photography, entering its 4th year of publishing has interviewed such names as Bruce Davidson, Ruth Bernhard, Arnold Newman, Michael Kenna as well as many others.

The purpose of this publishing company is to not only assist photographers and galleries in the process of creating their own book of photography, but then take it to the next level and help them market their new book of photography to collectors.

For more information, please visit www.focuspublishing.net.

Brian Ellis
2-Jan-2008, 23:43
Sounds interesting, hopefully it wil work out well for both parties. Thanks for the information and good luck.

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
3-Jan-2008, 11:18
Michael Smith and Paula Chamlee have a healthy obsession with providing readers with the highest quality possible. In the past 3 issues, the obsession has become contagious and now we are obsessed with it as well. Because I already use a printer for the magazine, I would receive a special rate from him, plus the bindery I use and the paper I would buy, I'll buy in bulk and we'll try to print the books at the same time as the magazine to save on setup charges with the printer and bindery. There seem to be a lot of photographers out there who want to self publish their own books, yet don't have the first clue how to do it not only cost effectively, but also with the absolute highest quality possible. We're going to be able to offer rates to photographers, galleries and museums that no other publishing company could offer and then we'll be able to take that product that we've helped them work on and present it to the audience we've been reaching for the past 3 years. This joint venture has me more excited than a kid in a candy store because of Michael and Paula's knowledge of not only book publishing and photography, but attention to detail and quality. Part of this joint venture is also going to be launching an online bookstore where anyone, whether published with us or not, can sell their books on our website for only a very small annual fee.

I could not possibly be able to communicate properly how excited this opportunity has me... to be able to work with two of the best out there is such an honor for me. I know one thing for sure: We're going to make a lot of photographers very, very happy.

steve simmons
3-Jan-2008, 11:32
View Camera will be happy to review the books you publish.

looking forward

steve simmons

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
3-Jan-2008, 11:34
View Camera will be happy to review the books you publish.

looking forward

steve simmons

Thank you, Steve. That is quite an honor. Once we get going with this, we will definitely be sure to send your magazine some review copies.

KEK
4-Jan-2008, 08:11
Crap now i,m going to have to cancel my subscription to the Brett Weston series :(

Don Hutton
4-Jan-2008, 09:31
For more information, please visit www.focuspublishing.net.
There is considerably less information on that link you've provided than within this posting - that's completely misleading. Perhaps I'm missing something, but the link page I go to seems to be only a solicitation for email addresses..?

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
4-Jan-2008, 09:50
There is considerably less information on that link you've provided than within this posting - that's completely misleading. Perhaps I'm missing something, but the link page I go to seems to be only a solicitation for email addresses..?

Yes, we're going to send a press release out to everyone who signs up for a newsletter when we're 100% up and running. Right now, we're just put the finishing touches on a few things and then we'll have a website up and running along with the photobookconnoisseur up and running. Right now, all we're doing is just announcing the partnership.

Don Hutton
4-Jan-2008, 10:17
That's about what I thought - so it's 100% misleading.

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
4-Jan-2008, 10:19
That's about what I thought - so it's 100% misleading.

Uh, there's nothing misleading about it. I tell people for more information, visit the website. They visit the website, give us their e-mail address and we send them more information about it. So far, 150 people don't have a problem with this. Sorry, Don.

Jorge Gasteazoro
4-Jan-2008, 10:44
Uh, there's nothing misleading about it. I tell people for more information, visit the website. They visit the website, give us their e-mail address and we send them more information about it. So far, 150 people don't have a problem with this. Sorry, Don.

Well, this is the problem David, if it is not misleading it certainly is sneaky. I understand you are exited about this partnership, but maybe you should have gotten all the info set up and running on your web site before you announced this.

Nevertheless, I wish you luck. I don't know that there are many photographers out there who can afford Smith's and most likely your consulting fee...but hey, nothing wrong with trying.

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
4-Jan-2008, 10:59
Well, this is the problem David, if it is not misleading it certainly is sneaky. I understand you are exited about this partnership, but maybe you should have gotten all the info set up and running on your web site before you announced this.

Nevertheless, I wish you luck. I don't know that there are many photographers out there who can afford Smith's and most likely your consulting fee...but hey, nothing wrong with trying.

I appreciate your input. I disagree with your assessment completely. It is not sneaky. If people are interested, they'll sign up for a newsletter. If they're not, they won't. I think there's a level of insecurity on the internet today whereas people don't want to submit their e-mail addresses for anything for risk of spam. As I've always done, any e-mail list that I collect stays with me and doesn't go to anyone else. I know the pains of seeing "Low interest rate mortgate, FINANCE NOW!!" among other more risque SPAM e-mails in the subject line.

And you see, the whole point of this business is to SAVE photographers money on something they would spend money on already. All we're doing is buying things directly from paper, printing and binding companies because we already work with them and buy products and supplies from them. This entitles us to a steep discount a photographer would not enjoy. As far as our fee on top of that, calculating the costs a photographer would spend with a printing company such as Stinehour press, a photographer would still spend less money working with us and receive quite a bit more in return. Any printing company you work with directly is going to markup paper and binding, plus there are a lot of ways you can save money by formatting the book to specific sizes and such. This is inforomation that a photographer could not, unless they have a lot of experience in publishing books, know on their own.

I don't want to go into pricing, but there is a significant cost difference between doing this on your own and doing it with us, plus every single book that's published with us gets submitted to a wholesaler who then submits the books to major chain and minor mom & pop bookstores all around the world.

Donald Miller
4-Jan-2008, 11:26
quote Focus Mag

"Because I already use a printer for the magazine, I would receive a special rate from him, plus the bindery I use and the paper I would buy, I'll buy in bulk and we'll try to print the books at the same time as the magazine to save on setup charges with the printer and bindery."

Somehow what you have said above is at odds with what I know about MAS and his advertising over the years that I have known him. He has stated publicly that he goes to extreme lengths to see that his books are printed as well as humanly possible. I believe that he has his stuff printed in Europe for that reason. I just don't see Michael subordinating himself to your production regimen...I could be wrong since he apparently has gone to doing color inkjet prints lately...I think that every publication whether that is your magazine or someone's book incorporates it's own setup...so where is the savings in that?

As far as fees are concerned, one of the last times that Michael and I talked about this he was quoting $3500.00 per day for just the consulting and he did not indicate that he was giving the printing, binding and distribution away at his cost.

Please understand that I have never bought your magazine... in fact I don't recall it on the newstands in Phoenix...certainly not in Milano. You may very well have the best thing since sliced bread for all that I know. It would allay a lot of doubts if MAS would co-announce this joint venture with you. Good luck to you, no matter what...

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
4-Jan-2008, 12:46
Somehow what you have said above is at odds with what I know about MAS and his advertising over the years that I have known him. He has stated publicly that he goes to extreme lengths to see that his books are printed as well as humanly possible. I believe that he has his stuff printed in Europe for that reason. I just don't see Michael subordinating himself to your production regimen...I could be wrong since he apparently has gone to doing color inkjet prints lately...I think that every publication whether that is your magazine or someone's book incorporates it's own setup...so where is the savings in that? As far as fees are concerned, one of the last times that Michael and I talked about this he was quoting $3500.00 per day for just the consulting and he did not indicate that he was giving the printing, binding and distribution away at his cost.

I know that Michael just left Pennsylvania to drive Los Angeles for Photo LA and has several stops on the way. I doubt he'll have access to the internet for quite some time. However; I would not post this announcement without his blessing and encouragment.

Again, the entire purpose of this thread was just to announce that we're partnering up to create a company that will exist to help photographers create a very, very high quality book of fine art photography and offer consultation and other services that help take the book beyond the normal print, give away to friends and family and let the book sit in your office for a few years way of doing things. We're looking to start not only a publishing company that helps photographers with their book, but also looking to dramatically expand the book section to the magazine and offer a new online bookstore website that is dedicated 100% to photography books. We're not going to rush anything until we're both ready as I'm working on an issue right now and Michael is out in LA and won't be back until mid-late January. What we want to do, when we're ready to start working with photographers, is have a list of people who are interested in working with us and inform them of the rates and costs associated with this and how the process works.

As complex as all of this sounds, a photographer is mainly going to be working with Michael Smith on this project. I'll be working in some fashion on layout and design and of course business areas, but that's about it. This is going to streamline the process for a photographer a great deal and save a photographer quite a bit of money compared to using other printers.

This service is not, though, for photographers looking to print 100 or so books. In order for this to be cost effective, I think the minimum amount of books we're going to be doing is 500 or 750. Not sure yet.... again, this isn't an announcement that we're in business or that we're ready to work with photographers right now, it's an announcement that we're joining forces to produce what we hope to be some of the highest quality books, at a price that's less expensive for a photographer and an ability to market it. We'll have different packages available at different pricing levels... one size does not fit all.

Jorge Gasteazoro
4-Jan-2008, 13:56
I disagree with your assessment completely. It is not sneaky. If people are interested, they'll sign up for a newsletter.

David, this is why you get in trouble in this forum and why so many people have a hard time trying to trust you. No matter how you put it, when you state "for more information go to this web site....." You are supposed to HAVE information on the web site, not a request for an address.

I don't see a problem with this other than the appearance of lack of organization and in announcing something you are not ready to explain. I guess there are other concerns as well, but I won't go into them or I am going to be accused of bashing you and Smith. Good luck in your venture, as I said, I am thinking this is going to be at least a 40k project for any photographer that wants to use you and there are no many of us that have that kind of dough laying around....I know I don't!

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
4-Jan-2008, 14:14
David, this is why you get in trouble in this forum and why so many people have a hard time trying to trust you. No matter how you put it, when you state "for more information go to this web site....." You are supposed to HAVE information on the web site, not a request for an address.

I don't see a problem with this other than the appearance of lack of organization and in announcing something you are not ready to explain. I guess there are other concerns as well, but I won't go into them or I am going to be accused of bashing you and Smith. Good luck in your venture, as I said, I am thinking this is going to be at least a 40k project for any photographer that wants to use you and there are no many of us that have that kind of dough laying around....I know I don't!

Uh, Jorge. Once again, I appreciate yours and anyone else's comments and opinions. There is no lack of organization. Our plan, which is much like many other companies' plans when they launch, is to make an announcement and create something for people to sign up for more information if they are interested. Then, when everything is ready, we will send information to those people. I also appreciate the expectance of some pricing, however; we are not ready to supply that pricing as of yet, although I will say this... if some people have a budget for $40,000 for a book of 1000 copies of a 96 page book this year, I know some great mutual funds that they can invest the difference between what it's going to cost them to work with us and what it would cost on their own. Hopefully within a decade or so, they can make the money back they spent on the book with the mutual fund. Or they can just donate it to charity... I am sure some charities would appreciate that large of a donation.

Jorge Gasteazoro
4-Jan-2008, 23:47
Uh, Jorge. Once again, I appreciate yours and anyone else's comments and opinions. There is no lack of organization. Our plan, which is much like many other companies' plans when they launch, is to make an announcement and create something for people to sign up for more information if they are interested. Then, when everything is ready, we will send information to those people. I also appreciate the expectance of some pricing, however; we are not ready to supply that pricing as of yet, although I will say this... if some people have a budget for $40,000 for a book of 1000 copies of a 96 page book this year, I know some great mutual funds that they can invest the difference between what it's going to cost them to work with us and what it would cost on their own. Hopefully within a decade or so, they can make the money back they spent on the book with the mutual fund. Or they can just donate it to charity... I am sure some charities would appreciate that large of a donation.

Well, I guess we will have to wait until you DO have information, but I doubt Smith is going to lower his consulting fee, so that right there is going to eat a big chunk of money.... let us know when you have information which does not require an e mail address.

PhotoHistorian
5-Jan-2008, 08:19
Lodima Press and Focus Magazine joining forces? Man, that is a match made in "Photographic Heaven." Two of the biggest "snake oil salesmen" in the business joining forces. Now we only have one place to look out for and not two. Anyone who deals with either of these guys deserves to get their pockets picked.

Walker

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
7-Jan-2008, 23:45
So an update. We're going to be working with pricing off of the three most popular book sizes. Unlike self publishing websites, one book size fits all does NOT apply here. Of course, there are limitations as to what a printing and binding company can and cannot print, however; there won't be many. We're also going to be pricing off of hardcover, though softcover IS available.

The pricing we're going to be working with are the following three sizes:

9 5/8 x 11 5/8 - 80 pages + cover + dustjacket
9 5 /8 x 8 5/8 -72 pages + cover + dustjacket
11 x 13 - 96 pages + cover + dustjacket

The pricing will be off of 1000 copies. Pricing as low as 500 copies will be available. We'll also provide pricing for each additional signature. For those who don't know, almost all printed products out there are printed on very large sheet sizes bought from the printer. We'll mainly be working with 25 x 40" sheet sizes that we'll be buying from the paper companies. Some signatures will be printed and folded for 12 page, 16 page and finally 24 page signatures. The higher the number of signatures in the book, the more cost effective the cost per page becomes. There are some book sizes that can't print with other signatures though. All of this will be provided to those who are interested in working with us to publish their books of photography. I'm doing everything I can to make the pricing as low as possible and not breach $30,000 for 1000 copies which includes almost everything, except scans and digital file optimzation. What it does include is our service fee and including shipping, boxing, marketing, advertising, you name it. More information will be provided via the newsletter very, very soon.

Colin Graham
8-Jan-2008, 06:59
$30,000 for 1000 copies

Seems like quite the vanity project!

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
8-Jan-2008, 09:43
Seems like quite the vanity project!


like Lee Friedlander you mean? Or Stephen Shore Or Ralph Gibson? Or John Gossage? Tilman Crane? Michael Smith? Alec Soth?

"Vanity Press" is really a (somewhat derogatory) term that comes from the world of writers (and poets).

By contrast, there's a fairly long and honourable tradition of artists (Ed Ruscha in the 60's, but actually going quite a ways back before that) and photographers self publishing - especially in small editions.

If you subscribe to the Photoeye magazine, there's been a several part series on self publishing recently - the current issue focuses on Hiroshi Watanabe

Some have only published their own work. Others have expanded their own person imprint to publish work of a few others (usually in order to help cover the costs of their own books).

Oft times, a major grant or prize will be used as the main source of funding to publish a project - I know that's how Frieldander got kick started with some of his early books.

And of course they often end up being very valuable - an early one of Friedlanders books can sell for at least three or four thousand dollars. And copy of the first self-published version of Soth's Sleeping by the Mississippi book goes for close to the same I think

Kirk Gittings
8-Jan-2008, 09:57
Lodima Press and Focus Magazine joining forces? Man, that is a match made in "Photographic Heaven." Two of the biggest "snake oil salesmen" in the business joining forces. Now we only have one place to look out for and not two. Anyone who deals with either of these guys deserves to get their pockets picked.

Walker

Dude! Where are the juevos? That would have much more credibility if you weren't hiding behind a pseudonym.

Kirk Gittings
8-Jan-2008, 10:01
Seems like quite the vanity project!

$30,000 for 1000 copies strikes me as a pretty reasonable price these days if the quality is good. In 1991 we paid like $20K FOR 1500 copies (I can't remember the numbers exactly). Funded by portfolio sales to museums, it was the best investment I ever made.

Jorge Gasteazoro
8-Jan-2008, 11:07
Dude! Where are the juevos? That would have much more credibility if you weren't hiding behind a pseudonym.

huevos Kirk...huevos... :)

Kirk Gittings
8-Jan-2008, 14:04
huevos Kirk...huevos... :)
Right.

windpointphoto
8-Jan-2008, 16:23
huevos Kirk...huevos... :)

Ok, I'll bite...what's it mean in english?

Eric Biggerstaff
8-Jan-2008, 16:39
Leonard,

Balls.

Curt Palm
8-Jan-2008, 16:45
Leonard,

Balls.

That's what I inferred form the context, but what does this mean when i order Huevos rancheros for breakfast?

Don Hutton
8-Jan-2008, 16:53
That's what I inferred form the context, but what does this mean when i order Huevos rancheros for breakfast?Clearly means it the bollocks!

Eric Biggerstaff
8-Jan-2008, 17:03
Curt,

You are OK as long as Rocky Mountain Oysters aren't on the menu! (Those are calf balls),

Eric

Joe Lipka
8-Jan-2008, 17:54
Clearly means it the bollocks!

Well, sometimes the bull does win...

windpointphoto
8-Jan-2008, 18:00
The absolute and most fun part of this forum is how we go off on such odd tangents. I learn so many new and utterly useless things. BTW I thought Mexican for balls was cahounas or something.

tim atherton
8-Jan-2008, 18:18
I think this is a bit like the Russian cosmonaut describing what it takes to pilot while docking with their space station - "eggs of steel"...

Jorge Gasteazoro
8-Jan-2008, 19:00
That's what I inferred form the context, but what does this mean when i order Huevos rancheros for breakfast?

Chicken egss with ranchero sauce, Kirk meant cojones... a synonym. The again in spanish is used both ways.

PS, rocky mountain oysters are great... here in Mexico the tacos made with them are called machitos... but then the kind of taco stands that sells them ares not usually in the tourist maps.. :)

Kirk Gittings
8-Jan-2008, 19:05
I've had some of those critters fresh at a branding in Northern New Mexico many years ago. Tasty.

Colin Graham
8-Jan-2008, 20:18
$30,000 for 1000 copies strikes me as a pretty reasonable price these days if the quality is good. In 1991 we paid like $20K FOR 1500 copies (I can't remember the numbers exactly). Funded by portfolio sales to museums, it was the best investment I ever made.

Ah me... posted before coffee and clearly my math suffered. $30 each doesn't sound all that bad at all. Apologies.

QT Luong
8-Jan-2008, 23:41
Jorge wasn't that far off the mark. There is someone who offers the same number of books for $9000 (http://www.my100books.com/). I've been told that marketing + distribution costs are about the same as printing cost. So one is paying a premium of about 10K to work with a person of the caliber and track record of MS.

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
9-Jan-2008, 00:01
Jorge wasn't that far off the mark. There is someone who offers the same number of books for $9000 (http://www.my100books.com/). I've been told that marketing + distribution costs are about the same as printing cost. So one is paying a premium of about 10K to work with a person of the caliber and track record of MS.

Distribution costs? No offense, QT, but do you really know what distribution of a book entitles? Do you know how to secure contracts with the major chain retailers? What about the paper my100books or any of those other doityourself web book publishers? What about a designer? And the scans? You're not paying JUST to work with a person of the caliber and track record of Michael Smith, you're also paying for the highest quality books that you can print in America, #1. Now if quality isn't important to you and reproduction isn't important to you, go ahead, use lulu or blurb or my100books or any of those. All of them have quality issues. How many of those online book printers do you have the opportunity to stand there, on press, while your book is being printed in front of you? How many of those companies allow you to work directly with the owner of the printing company who's printing your book, the owner of the binding company who's binding your book, get some of the highest quality paper in the world, coupled with having your book submitted to several independent and every single major chain bookstore in the country? How many of those book publishing companies will also market your book at photography art fairs such as AIPAD, Photo LA or Photo Miami? You're NOT just paying to work with Michael Smith on the actual production of your incredibly high quality book, you're paying to have your book published, marketed, sold online, solicited to over one thousand bookstores nationwide and much, much more. You're also getting design and layout work done for you as well.

Go ahead. Ask all of those companies how they'll do all of that for you. I'll guarantee you none of them will. Will this new venture between Lodima and Focus do that? Absolutely and that's just scratching the surface.

steve simmons
9-Jan-2008, 07:57
Rocky Mountain Oysters

some people consider these a delicacy, kinda like caviar:-)

steve simmons

Eric Biggerstaff
9-Jan-2008, 08:29
I have to admitt that I too have tried the good old Rocky Mountain Oyster - not bad but tough to get past what I am eating!

Also, I have had a number of good tacos from those street vendors in Mexico, after about a dozen beers!

Ok, I guess we have taken this thread about as far off the intended path as possible - my apologies David.

steve simmons
9-Jan-2008, 08:39
I learn so many new and utterly useless things.

Maybe not useless. Next time you go to a roundup and see something frying in the skillet you''ll know to ask for three or four:-)


steve

windpointphoto
9-Jan-2008, 10:44
I learn so many new and utterly useless things.

Maybe not useless. Next time you go to a roundup and see something frying in the skillet you''ll know to ask for three or four:-)


steve

And I can ride horses and damn near let them kill me too, right Steve?

Kirk Gittings
9-Jan-2008, 10:48
And I can ride horses and damn near let them kill me too, right Steve?

I suspect that Steve's knowledge of horses has saved his huevos (thank you Jorge) a few times shooting rodeos too.

Dave Wooten
9-Jan-2008, 17:18
Lodima Press, a publishing company known for their incredibly high quality books of photography is joining forces with Focus Fine Art Photography Magazine to form Focus Fine Art Photography Publishing. Lodima Press has published books from the likes of Robert Adams, Paul Caponigro, Keith Carter, Larry Fink, Arthur Tress, Brett Weston and Edward Weston. Focus Magazine, a magazine dedicated to collectors of fine art photography, entering its 4th year of publishing has interviewed such names as Bruce Davidson, Ruth Bernhard, Arnold Newman, Michael Kenna as well as many others.

The purpose of this publishing company is to not only assist photographers and galleries in the process of creating their own book of photography, but then take it to the next level and help them market their new book of photography to collectors.

For more information, please visit www.focuspublishing.net.


Good luck on the new venture Dave!

Jim Ewins
9-Jan-2008, 21:30
who is mislead?

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
9-Jan-2008, 21:31
If Michael goes to Belgium to have his and Lodima press publications done there because no US Press is good enough, does this put Focus in the position of being the low cost, bargain basement, second rate alternative? If the US printing isn't good enough for his work why is it good enough for the work you will be soliciting?

Ask any photographer who's gotten their work printed with a US printer such as Brilliant Graphics out of Exton, PA or Dual Graphics out of CA that their books are second rate and see how they react. I also know that Michael hasn't only worked with, in the years Lodima Press has been around, JUST the printer in Belgium. With the decline of the US Dollar, Lodima Press may have to consider using one of the either printers...but knowing Michael, there would have to be some serious discussions about this before any decision would be made. Again, this is just my assumption -- I have absolutely zero inside knowledge about this.

Secondly, I'm sure one of very few US printers could match if not exceed the same level of quality Michael gets in Belgium. Lodima Press started using their printer in Belgium a long time ago before a lot of US printers increased the quality. Today, you have Dual Graphics offering Stochastic screening on a 300 linescreen and you have Brilliant Graphics offering 300 line conventional screening over the broadest range of the scale. However, where conventional screening can fall off the scale (upper hilights and lower shadows) Brilliant's screening turns into stochastic – thus the name “Hybrid Screening.” This screening is an exclusive Heidelberg technology developed by Dr. Hell – the grandfather of scanning/digital screening.

I know of only 2 North American printers that both Michael and I could trust to utilize something like this. Their charges will be for the actual printing of the magazine -- in which there is only so much one can charge for 1000 books so it is A: affordable so the printer can have repeat business, B: affordable for the photographer and C: profitable enough so that the printer is comfortable with the pricing.

Please note that I did not include Stinehour, which is a popular printer of books of photography. While I feel there is nothing "wrong" with their printing per se, it's perfectly fine, I am not confident that their quality meets the qaulity that both Michael and I are looking for. We cannot use just any other press... we have to use the BEST.

This is why I will not outsource anything to China or Hong Kong or India. Those books have an inferior level of reproduction and only utilize a 200 linescreen. Not only that, but the living conditions of those who work on the presses is terrible... sure the book will be cheap, but the people who work on it are improvrished. I do not support that and would hope no one utilizes those POD websites as most if not all of them use Asian printers.

I want my printer to live well. I took a tour of the Brilliant Graphics facilities last June. The place looked like NASA. They have the absolute latest technology in printing and make sure EVERYTHING is printed perfectly. That's the kind of quality and that's the kind of facility I want one of my clients who's spending their hard earned money to see and experience.

tim atherton
9-Jan-2008, 21:55
Secondly, I'm sure one of very few US printers could match if not exceed the same level of quality Michael gets in Belgium. Lodima Press started using their printer in Belgium a long time ago before a lot of US printers increased the quality. Today, you have Dual Graphics offering Stochastic screening on a 300 linescreen and you have Brilliant Graphics offering 300 line conventional screening over the broadest range of the scale. However, where conventional screening can fall off the scale (upper hilights and lower shadows) Brilliant's screening turns into stochastic – thus the name “Hybrid Screening.” This screening is an exclusive Heidelberg technology developed by Dr. Hell – the grandfather of scanning/digital screening.

.

I think Michael has said in the past that one of the reasons he switched from Dual Graphics to Salto in Belgium after the first two or three Lodima series books was he found the quality of their 600-line screen quadtone printing to be superior to Dual Graphics excellent printing?

QT Luong
9-Jan-2008, 22:02
Distribution costs? No offense, QT, but do you really know what distribution of a book entitles? Do you know how to secure contracts with the major chain retailers?

I try to avoid those personal exchanges, but since you asked, yes, and reading what you wrote in the thread http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=29420
it seems that back then quite a few knew more than you. At least I had read one entire book about self-publishing, so I didn't have to ask such naive questions. By the way, even some of the "cheap" chinese printers (some of which MS have used) will allow you to stand at the press. Whether this would be useful if someone like MS doesn't come with you is another story.

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
9-Jan-2008, 22:12
I think Michael has said in the past that one of the reasons he switched from Dual Graphics to Salto in Belgium after the first two or three Lodima series books was he found the quality of their 600-line screen quadtone printing to be superior to Dual Graphics excellent printing?

He also said he made the switch because the dollar was high vs. the Euro. Now it's the reverse. A book that could cost $30,000 with Dual Graphics would wind up costing$45,000 for a book that's just as good and pay tens of thousands of dollars more in shipping. In the end, when you have to choose between two of the best printers in the world, you have to choose which is more economically effecient for you.

I also believe that Dual Graphics and Brilliant Graphics have both come to the point where they can meet and exceed the level of quality that is acceptable to photographers, Michael and myself.

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
9-Jan-2008, 22:47
I try to avoid those personal exchanges, but since you asked, yes, and reading what you wrote in the thread http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=29420
it seems that back then quite a few knew more than you. At least I had read one entire book about self-publishing, so I didn't have to ask such naive questions. By the way, even some of the "cheap" chinese printers (some of which MS have used) will allow you to stand at the press. Whether this would be useful if someone like MS doesn't come with you is another story.

Let's say I sell 500 books that cost $45 to a distributor and 250 copies sell. Out of the 250 copies I sold, I receive about $15 per copy after all of the distributors' costs are weighed in. Then you have to buy back the remaining 250 copies at $25 per book. I'm at $6250 so far and I haven't even paid for shipping back from the distributor to me. Add on another $1000. Subtract the money I earned, $3750 from $7250. So, that's a net expense of $3500 and that's IF you have a 50% sell through rate of your books.

So, now there's advertising and marketing of your books.

Well, it seems like the easiest way to advertise your books would be through magazines that reach people interested in photography books. And in order for a campaign to be effective, you'll want to advertise it for a year or so.

I can think of:


Aperture - $9100 4x - 4C Full Page Ad. $36,400.
Blindspot - $5500 4x - 4C Full Page Ad. $22,000.
Photograph - $1400 4x - 4C Full Page Ad. $8400.
Focus: $1280 6X - 4C Full Page Ad. $7680
Photo-Eye: $1102.50 4x - 4C Full Page Ad. $4410
B&W: $800 - 8x - 1C Full Page Ad. $6400


So, for marketing I'm at $85,290. Of course, no photographer could probably ever afford that kind of expense. Books advertised by our company will be in most, if not all of those magazines, plus have a special website where people can place orders for those books. How much additional does the photographer whose book we published pay to have their book marketed and distributed?

$0.

Of course, you could try marketing it on your own and doing a less-than-effective marketing campaign.... and well good luck obtaining a distributor on your own. Where you get the number of $10,000 is beyond me, though.

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
10-Jan-2008, 08:43
"Quality that is acceptable to photographers, Michael and myself."

I thought you were a used car salesman who got into the mag business because you saw a money making opportunity? That is what you have posted before, along with major league insults to the LF community.

Now you and Michael are equals in photography?

If you have any questions, specifically related to the book publishing company, I'd be happy to answer them. Otherwsie, please stop trolling.

tim atherton
10-Jan-2008, 09:17
On printers of photography books, I'm still astounded by the books that are printed by Meridian. They have a look and a feel to the way they are printed which is hard to find elsewhere.

From the Atget and Gillman Paper Collection books through to some of the latest Frieldanders - there's just something about the way they do it.

I think they also print Blindspot? which always looks good.

(Somewhere online there are a couple of really good podcasts of Richard Benson talking about his printing processes and philosophy?)

Kirk Gittings
10-Jan-2008, 09:21
He also said he made the switch because the dollar was high vs. the Euro.

FWIW, Michael and I presented together on publishing at the VC Conference near Chicago a couple of years ago. He talked at length about using the Belgian printer. He never ever mentioned the dollar value. It was totally his usual schtick ,"damn the expense, I want the best".

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
10-Jan-2008, 09:21
On printers of photography books, I'm still astounded by the books that are printed by Meridian. They have a look and a feel to the way they are printed which is hard to find elsewhere.

From the Atget and Gillman Paper Collection books through to some of the latest Frieldanders - there's just something about the way they do it.

(Somewhere online there are a couple of really good podcasts of Richard Benson talking about his printing processes and philosophy?)

You said the evil "M" word. ;)

Meridian is an excellent printer. They do photograph and Blindspot. They are uber, uber, UBER expensive. I believe that Dual Graphics and Brilliant Graphics are just as good if not better in some areas than Meridian and cost 25% if not more less than they do.

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
10-Jan-2008, 09:24
Michael and I presented together on publishing at the VC Conference near Chicago a couple of years ago. he talked at lenght about using the Belgian printer. He never ever mentioned the dollar value. It was totally his usual schtick ,"damn the expense, I want the best".

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=117836

steve simmons
10-Jan-2008, 15:32
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve simmons
I learn so many new and utterly useless things.

Maybe not useless. Next time you go to a roundup and see something frying in the skillet you''ll know to ask for three or four:-)


steve

And I can ride horses and damn near let them kill me too, right Steve? [/I]

My getting hurt at the rodeo was my own fault. I knew better but wasn't paying attention.

I've never been hurt like that riding a horse, and yes, I've come off a few times.

The most important thing about self publishing a book is marketing and distribution and so many photographers don't think about this. Just getting it out to book stores is not enough. People have to know about it and want to buy a copy. Exhibits, book reviews, articles about the photographer and the book, etc. are at least 50% of the program to make a book successful. The most beautifully printed book of the most exquisite photographs will wither in the storage room if no one knows about it.

Much of this marketing has to be done and in motion before the book is printed.

steve simmons

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
10-Jan-2008, 16:03
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve simmons
I learn so many new and utterly useless things.

Maybe not useless. Next time you go to a roundup and see something frying in the skillet you''ll know to ask for three or four:-)


steve

And I can ride horses and damn near let them kill me too, right Steve? [/I]

My getting hurt at the rodeo was my own fault. I knew better but wasn't paying attention.

I've never been hurt like that riding a horse, and yes, I've come off a few times.

The most important thing about self publishing a book is marketing and distribution and so many photographers don't think about this. Just getting it out to book stores is not enough. People have to know about it and want to buy a copy. Exhibits, book reviews, articles about the photographer and the book, etc. are at least 50% of the program to make a book successful. The most beautifully printed book of the most exquisite photographs will wither in the storage room if no one knows about it.

Much of this marketing has to be done and in motion before the book is printed.

steve simmons

Btw - Steve. I didn't want to exclude your magazine... except the link for your rate card on your website isn't working...

http://www.viewcamera.com/pdf/2006/VC%20Rate%20Card%2006-07.pdf

Jorge Gasteazoro
10-Jan-2008, 16:45
Let's say I sell 500 books that cost $45 to a distributor and 250 copies sell. Out of the 250 copies I sold, I receive about $15 per copy after all of the distributors' costs are weighed in. Then you have to buy back the remaining 250 copies at $25 per book. I'm at $6250 so far and I haven't even paid for shipping back from the distributor to me. Add on another $1000. Subtract the money I earned, $3750 from $7250. So, that's a net expense of $3500 and that's IF you have a 50% sell through rate of your books.

So, now there's advertising and marketing of your books.

Well, it seems like the easiest way to advertise your books would be through magazines that reach people interested in photography books. And in order for a campaign to be effective, you'll want to advertise it for a year or so.

I can think of:


Aperture - $9100 4x - 4C Full Page Ad. $36,400.
Blindspot - $5500 4x - 4C Full Page Ad. $22,000.
Photograph - $1400 4x - 4C Full Page Ad. $8400.
Focus: $1280 6X - 4C Full Page Ad. $7680
Photo-Eye: $1102.50 4x - 4C Full Page Ad. $4410
B&W: $800 - 8x - 1C Full Page Ad. $6400


So, for marketing I'm at $85,290. Of course, no photographer could probably ever afford that kind of expense. Books advertised by our company will be in most, if not all of those magazines, plus have a special website where people can place orders for those books. How much additional does the photographer whose book we published pay to have their book marketed and distributed?

$0.

Of course, you could try marketing it on your own and doing a less-than-effective marketing campaign.... and well good luck obtaining a distributor on your own. Where you get the number of $10,000 is beyond me, though.

I am confused. Ar eyou saying that if I have a book published by you and Michael, you will advertise the book in all of those magazines for a year?

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
10-Jan-2008, 17:54
I am confused. Ar eyou saying that if I have a book published by you and Michael, you will advertise the book in all of those magazines for a year?

Not all of them -- but most. Certainly an advertising budget for this company that is much bigger than the amount of money a photographer spends on printing their own books.

Jorge Gasteazoro
11-Jan-2008, 10:01
Not all of them -- but most. Certainly an advertising budget for this company that is much bigger than the amount of money a photographer spends on printing their own books.

See David, this is why I posted you should have witheld your information until you had a plan and concrete information. WHat you are posting makes you look like you are trying to con people and using data to give examples which are not something you plan and are unable to do.

Why would you post an advertisement budget of $89000? and then say..well, no I wont advertise in all the magazines? The the budget is not longer $89000 but less...right?

Then people need to know what you plan to advertise, are you going to advertise the individual book or are you going to be advertising the publisher and the current book?

As you wrote in this post, it looks like you are saying that it might cost $30000 to publish a book with you, and that you will spend $89000 advertising it. Not a formula for success and making money.

This is the kind of thing that gives you a bad rep on this forum, it looks like you are trying to pull the wool over our eyes with data and amounts that have nothing to do with each other.

You need to sit down, gather all the information you have, and explain your purpose and how you plan to do what you envision in a clear and consice manner. In a society where people sue each other at the drop of a hat, you are asking for trouble posting half baked information.

davidb
11-Jan-2008, 10:49
There is a reason Brooks Jensen doesn't post on APUG or here. Because what he says leads to 7 or more pages of crap.

David, I read everything you write here. I don't always agree with you but you have the right to do so.

But as a business person, I cannot figure out why you would come here and spout off about politics and other bull shit.

I honestly think you and your business (ad)ventures would be much better off without your personal thoughts being publicized.

And as far as your new venture, I have to agree with Jorge on this one. It should have been much more planned out before collecting emails and before going public with the info. The perception, at least my perception, is that you are figuring this out day by day and only after what is being posted here.

I truly wish you all the best. Any person that put photography out into the world is a good person in my eyes.

But maybe you need to take a step back for a little while?

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
11-Jan-2008, 10:59
So you think bringing up your own words is trolling? The truth hurts and in your case the truth is you are putting out a magazine that is apparently getting better. But, your past activities are not erased by this fact. I am surprised Michael A. Smith is getting in bed with you and wait to hear from him posting on the relationship. Maybe with him ramrodding some of it things will improve and the quality he pushes for will actually be there? Michael does what he says.

My "past activities?" Listen, I understand everyone's passion for their own work and placing yourself in the position of Michael Gordon. I lost his portfolio. After a bit of time I even re-considered reimbursing him for that. He declined. It's been over with for a very, very long time. Let it die. Losing someone's portfolio doesn't make me a bad or shady person, it just makes me a bit dis-organized when I was moving between places at a very hectic period of time in my life. That happened over a year and a half ago. But the way you talk, Dakotah, you make it sound as if I was some kind of child murderer. "past activities." And I'm sure you'll say, "No you lied about the missing portfolio," no I did not. I honestly believed it was in our older office which we moved back to.

As far as Michael "being in bed" with me, and again I have no inside information, but I am highly confident the only person Michael is in bed with is his wife, Paula. Michael and I have been doing business since the very first issue of FOCUS. Michael has been an overwhelming influence in the direction of the magazine since day 1 and although he's never been part of the staff, officially, he had more good ideas as to what should go inside of the magazine than our former editor, Steve Anchell did. Anchell made a tremendous contribution to the magazine for years and was an invaluable asset, but had virtually no knowledge of collecting fine art photography. Thus the inevitable evolution to Stephen Perloff. My actions over the past, now nearly 3 years, have been to provide a forum where photographers and collectors can meet, share, exchange ideas and learn. The overall quality of that presentation has improved vastly due to the switch to our new printer, however; many of the articles you see in FOCUS today, have been in FOCUS since our 5th issue, where I finally started listening to Michael on what should be in FOCUS and utilizing to the fullest extent possible, Steve Anchell's talents. I have worked tirelessly with over one-hundred photographers during the past 3 years and while I have made some mistakes, I'm by no means perfect nor ever claimed to be. My actions should reflect the effort I have put into this magazine, to improve this forum for photographers and collectors which has benefitted tens of thousands of photographer and collectors, not by one missing portfolio.

This thread's intended purpose, once again, was to provide a public viewing place where people may see the announcement of Michael and I doing business and if anyone had questions about that specific partnership, I would answer as many questions as I could. It was not to say "We have everything planned and are ready to accept books now." This is why I created a website where people can sign up for more information. With Michael and Paula at Photo LA, hopefully selling many copies of their books and photographs to collectors, I am here getting all of the details together so we can put a final plan together and then offer our services to photographers.


As for advertising, you state "Certainly an advertising budget for this company that is much bigger than the amount of money a photographer spends on printing their own books." Is this the total advertising budget for the magazine in total or is it specifically targeted at marketing the books? With one good book being around $30,000 this might lead us to believe that you will spend more than that advertising each book? Or is it for the books in total? Or is it the same type of thing as going to your site to get more information... that is not there?

The magazine and the publishing company exist as two seperate entities. The magazine is owned 100% by me and the publishing company is owned 50% by myself and 50% by Michael Smith. The total annual budget for advertising the publishing company, will be more than the cost to publish one book. Since a photographer usually publishes one book a year and QT was suggesting that marketing and distributing one book only cost $10,000, I was pointing out to him many of the resources available to photographers to market their book in which would cost 8x as much as QT suggested.

Jorge Gasteazoro
11-Jan-2008, 11:44
Since a photographer usually publishes one book a year and QT was suggesting that marketing and distributing one book only cost $10,000, I was pointing out to him many of the resources available to photographers to market their book in which would cost 8x as much as QT suggested.

Not really, you posted amounts as if one was going to advertise in all the magazines. Clearly something no one would do, even you, as you replied to my post.

Now we have to see what would be the advantage of publishing with you and having it advertised by you. If you advertise it, most likely you would advertise the publishing company with the current book...lets say for example. "Focus publishing is offering their latest published book by.... blah, blah blah"... Which could change every month, every few months and certainly would not represent a whole year of advertising for each single book. Now, if I advertise it myself, I can use one magazine for one year, I can use 4 magazines and pay each a 3 month rate, I can advertise every othe rmonths, etc, etc. There are many different options which would have to be researched to see which magazine and advertising scheme would work better.

I think QT's budget of 10K is actually very generous and can give the person a great exposure. I wish I had them.. :)

So we are back at square one. It looks like working with you and Michael will signify paying a premium, there is nothing wrong with admiting this. Michael has a lot of experience publishing books and I suppose his experience should have some value to some.

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
11-Jan-2008, 11:52
See David, this is why I posted you should have witheld your information until you had a plan and concrete information. WHat you are posting makes you look like you are trying to con people and using data to give examples which are not something you plan and are unable to do.

I'm not even sure how to respond to such ridiculousness. There's no "conning" going on. There's a lot of negativity... but that's mostly from the same people who are always negative on this forum. So it's not a surprise. I can start any thread about any venture or idea I have and before I even post it, I know who will write negative comments about it. Hell, everyone else here knows. I always get e-mails from so many people "Don't pay attention to Jorge, he just likes to complain a lot" or "Don't listen to Dakotah, Dakotah's always has nasty things to say." I've gotten more e-mails from people over the years about the same people on and on and on. It's really quite amusing after time. People signed up and gave me their e-mail addresses so they could receive more information when we have it. That's it. That's what we told them we would do from day 1 and that's what we will do.


Why would you post an advertisement budget of $89000? and then say..well, no I wont advertise in all the magazines? The the budget is not longer $89000 but less...right? Then people need to know what you plan to advertise, are you going to advertise the individual book or are you going to be advertising the publisher and the current book? As you wrote in this post, it looks like you are saying that it might cost $30000 to publish a book with you, and that you will spend $89000 advertising it. Not a formula for success and making money.

I was posting an example of what someone who wants to market their book might pay. I did not say "This is our ad budget and this is what we're going to spend advertising per book." As we plan to publish more than one book per year, we would advertise more than one book per year, i.e. the entire publishing company. I said that we plan to advertise in most of those magazines. There were others (ViewCamera) that I did not include because I don't have their pricing.

This thread (I sound like a broken record) is for the intended purpose of announcing the partnership. That is all of the information I can provide except I can promise one thing: Any book published under this company will be advertised inside of Focus, on our new photography bookstore website and in many other magazines and it will be advertised to bookstores to buy, sell and distribute in their bookstores. I have said this from the beginning and I will continue saying it. We are not ready to accept books, yet. We are not publishing on this or any other forum prices, specific detailed plans, or anything of that sort. I am announcing a partnership for a publishing service that will publish, print, sell to distributors and market for less money than if a photographer were to do it on his or her own. There will be different levels of service from just printing and publishing the book to full on marketing campaigns. No other publishing service offers what we offer. No matter which option a photographer chooses, they will save a hell of a lot of money than if they did this on their own with another US-Based printer. The quality won't be nearly as good as what we will provide them with and they won't be able to market their books, or distribute their books through these websites. We will offer a multitude of services that a photographer cannot get anywhere else and knowledge that a photographer will find invaluable to the business of book publishing.

Kirk Gittings
11-Jan-2008, 12:00
I'm doing everything I can to make the pricing as low as possible and not breach $30,000 for 1000 copies which includes almost everything, except scans and digital file optimization. What it does include is our service fee and including shipping, boxing, marketing, advertising, you name it.

Frankly if they are able to hold to this, based on my experience, it is potentially a very good deal. As I said before, I think I paid like $20K just for my book 15 years ago, and I think their quality will be much higher.

Jorge Gasteazoro
11-Jan-2008, 12:10
I was posting an example of what someone who wants to market their book might pay. I did not say "This is our ad budget and this is what we're going to spend advertising per book." As we plan to publish more than one book per year, we would advertise more than one book per year, i.e.

Your post implied you were going to use this budget for each book....if not then why post the comparisson? I assure it will not cost anybody in this forum 89K to advertise.


This thread (I sound like a broken record) is for the intended purpose of announcing the partnership.

I am just learning about marketing, and I know nothing about advertising. But from what I have observed, those who announce a partnership have the information and all their ducks in a row before they announce it. Announcing something for which you have no information shows a lack of organization. Not something I want from someone whom I plan to pay 30k or more to make my book...

Seems you equate negativism with criticism and that is, if anything, a bad attitude to have for the use of this forum.

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
11-Jan-2008, 12:12
Now we have to see what would be the advantage of publishing with you and having it advertised by you.

Well, no. The advantage of publishing with us will be that a photographer will be able to print this book less expensively than most other printers in the US would publish their book for. And by less expensively, I'm not talking about $500 or $1000. I'm talking multiple thousands of dollars if not more. We will offer a higher linescreen than any of those "do-it-yourself" websites do, and much, much higher quality reproduction than they do. So, yes, you're paying more money with us than you would pay with 100 books or lulu, but you get what you're paying for. We're not sacrificing quality for budgetary reasons. We're able to obtain discounts on printing, binding and paper because we buy them in bulk and we have pre-established relationships with the best printers in the United States that help us obtain prices that no one else can get.


If you advertise it, most likely you would advertise the publishing company with the current book...lets say for example. "Focus publishing is offering their latest published book by.... blah, blah blah"... Which could change every month, every few months and certainly would not represent a whole year of advertising for each single book.

Could being the keyword. As I stated previously, there will be different levels of marketing that a photographer may purchase for their book. Some photographers may choose not to market their book at all, in which they would only save thousands of dollars off of the cost of producing and shipping their books. Some photographers may want a year of advertising -- again, we will be able to offer services for photographers that no one else can and they wouldn't be able to obtain on their own.


Now, if I advertise it myself, I can use one magazine for one year,I can use 4 magazines and pay each a 3 month rate, I can advertise every othe rmonths, etc, etc. There are many different options which would have to be researched to see which magazine and advertising scheme would work better.

We've already done that for you. That's the benefit of working with us. And we are able to obtain less expensive rates because of the volume of advertising we'll be doing with most of those magazines. I wish I could go back and include View Camera's rates in there -- but that will definitely be one of the preferred magazines we will want to advertise in. Steve does a great job with his magazine and I'm personally a fan of it.


I think QT's budget of 10K is actually very generous and can give the person a great exposure. I wish I had them.. :)

You know what, Jorge. You're right. I'm going to make this offer right now. If you can get 1000 magazines printed, shipped, distributed and marketed/advertised for $20,000 and not a penny more, I'll pay you $10,000 USD. By the way, your book must be printed with either Brilliant Graphics or Dual Graphics, you must use at least 100# Galerie Art Silk Paper and 100# Galerie Art Silk Cover Stock for your dustjacket. Your book must be hardcover and be larger than 8 x 10. The book must be sold in at least 500 bookstores nationwide. The book must be 96 pages + hardcover + dustjacket and must be an extremely high quality cloth material for the hardcover. You must have at least 80 images in the book and must have every single one of your prints scanned via a drum scanner. Every single page that has an image must be reproduced in tritone or stochastic screen printing and must use a spot varnish on every single one of those images. Now, remember, you must do this on your own for $20,000 or less. $9000 to print the book, $1000 to ship it and $10,000 for marketing/advertising and distributing the book. Good luck. You'll need it.

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
11-Jan-2008, 12:12
Frankly if they are able to hold to this, based on my experience, it is potentially a very good deal. As I said before, I think I paid like $20K just for my book 15 years ago, and I think their quality will be much higher.

Where did you have it printed?

Jorge Gasteazoro
11-Jan-2008, 12:13
Frankly if they are able to hold to this, based on my experience, it is potentially a very good deal. As I said before, I think I paid like $20K just for my book 15 years ago, and I think their quality will be much higher.

Agreed, if they had information before hand it would have saved a lot of space in this thread.. :)

Jorge Gasteazoro
11-Jan-2008, 12:21
You know what, Jorge. You're right. I'm going to make this offer right now. If you can get 1000 magazines printed, shipped, distributed and marketed/advertised for $20,000 and not a penny more, I'll pay you $10,000 USD.

LOL... David, I would appreciate it if you read what I posted before you respond. I wrote 10k is very generous for advertising not printing and distribuiting the books. Isn't this what you are talking about?

As to your challange, once again you let your mouth run off beforer you think. I could print 1000 books, on size of 3x5 or 4x6, 20 pages for 20k and do what you require in your challange.

You really need to relax, I think what most people here want is to read more concrete and planned information about your new venture. I don't think anybody here is saying this new venture is good or bad, simply that it lack cohesive information.

Kirk Gittings
11-Jan-2008, 12:48
Where did you have it printed?

Land O' Sun printers in Scottsdale. They are gone now. They went bankrupt some years ago. At the time they were a high end art printer, but struggled with b&w (IMO). The book was designed and brokered as a favor by William "Bill" Peterson, owner/publisher of ArtSpace Magazine. Artspace was a big deal in west in the 80's-also now long gone. They were the preferred printer for Bill's book projects.

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
11-Jan-2008, 14:08
I can think of:

Aperture - $9100 4x - 4C Full Page Ad. $36,400.
Blindspot - $5500 4x - 4C Full Page Ad. $22,000.
Photograph - $1400 4x - 4C Full Page Ad. $8400.
Focus: $1280 6X - 4C Full Page Ad. $7680
Photo-Eye: $1102.50 4x - 4C Full Page Ad. $4410
B&W: $800 - 8x - 1C Full Page Ad. $6400

So, for marketing I'm at $85,290. Of course, no photographer could probably ever afford that kind of expense. Books advertised by our company will be in most, if not all of those magazines, plus have a special website where people can place orders for those books.

Well Spivey, it appears you plan on advertising at least $60,000 worth if I or Jorge or someone else does a book. That will include "in most, if not all of those magazines".

The more you post the more it looks as if you are still trying to sell used cars. You should run for public office. Spending $10 million to get a job that pays $150,000 a year will be a good fit for you.

As I said before, you are putting out a decent rag and it is apparently getting better. I said nothing about losing a portfolio. Had forgotten about that. I was referring to your earlier postings on these forums insulting all the LF community.

Your view of some of us being 'so negative' seems to come out when we question your claims. This is one big reason I will wait to see how Michael A. Smith figures into this... for real. Not just your claims. He doesn't market this way and that is why it is so hard to see you hooked up with him. When he introduces something there is a level of trust and confidence, not the feeling we are getting flimflammed by a confidence man.

Dakotah, you are trolling. You have no questions here and are obviously in this thread for another reason. And by the way, I have never insulted all of the LF community. I was never in this forum before the lost portfolio thing happened. I was on APUG and well -- I had some choice words for a lot of people on there. So do many other people -- so I'm not alone.

davidb
11-Jan-2008, 14:13
David,
You have 24 posts in this one thread (out of 76).

Are you accomplishing what you had hoped for?

QT Luong
11-Jan-2008, 14:27
FocusMag Post #19:

"I 'm doing everything I can to make the pricing as low as possible and not breach $30,000 for 1000 copies which includes almost everything, except scans and digital file optimzation."

FocusMag Post #70:

"You must have at least 80 images in the book and must have every single one of your prints scanned via a drum scanner. "

(by the way, is it useful to scan *prints* via drum scanner ?)

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
11-Jan-2008, 14:33
David,
You have 24 posts in this one thread (out of 76).

Are you accomplishing what you had hoped for?

Beyond that. As a result, thousands of people now know about this upcoming project, that it will be of extreme quality and that we'll be able to provide many, many services for photographers.

However, I have gone outside the original intended purpose and given a few, allbeit contradicting details, which I promised not to do. Going back and forth people like Dakotah is counter productive, because he is obviously here for his own reasons. When the website is up and running and we are ready to give people details, I will announce that and unless there is a serious question regarding this service here, this will be my last post until then. Once again, so there is NO confusion, I was here simply to make an announcement, not to give details.

Don Hutton
11-Jan-2008, 15:00
Going back and forth people like Dakotah is counter productive, because he is obviously here for his own reasons.Let me guess - you're not here for your own reasons???!!

You should really go and read the "info" section on the home page and you'll find out that this site is actually a community of large format photographers - not magazine publishers, car salesmen or whatever. Are you in fact a large format photographer? Don't bother with a long garbled diatribe of a response either - it's a rhetorical question.

Donald Miller
12-Jan-2008, 11:41
The single greatest characteristic that I have observed is the use of carefully parsed language. Almost at the level of some shyster lawyer...but not quite that accomplished. That has a real tendency to piss some people off.

sanking
12-Jan-2008, 20:17
The single greatest characteristic that I have observed is the use of carefully parsed language. Almost at the level of some shyster lawyer...but not quite that accomplished. That has a real tendency to piss some people off.


That is you, Donald. The most carefully parsed soul on the web.

Recall what David Millard wrote:

“Although I appreciate seeing the images submitted because of Donald Miller's thread, I'm still reminded of Humpty Dumpty's response to Alice: "When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less".

Donald, IMO you are quite the Ego. But that does not give you the right to use words as you choose.

Sandy King

David Spivak-Focus Magazine
13-Jan-2008, 01:16
Just a quick update -- I will be sending out e-mails later this week to everyone who has signed up for a newsletter with a preview of what we intend to do in great detail and will be able to field any questions asked. The website should also be 100% functional by the end of this week as well. There may be, though, some questions that take a little longer to answer because of the difficulty of the question that I will need Michael's help with.

Our mission is to publish the extaordinary high quality books of fine art photography, while being able to offer a photographer the ability to help publish their book for rates that will be far less expensive than if they were to do it on their own - coupled with distribution and marketing packages to help the photographer beyond the actual production of the book. Rest assured, any project either myself or Michael Smith will be associated with, must meet the strictest standards for printing and reproduction.

There are currently only two US printers in which we would feel comfortable working with. Both printers have centered their entire businesses around offering extraordinarily high quality reproduction. I currently use one for the magazine and Michael has used one in the past for Lodima Press. The use of either printer will be depenent upon the actual project itself and various other factors.

I hope that by the end of this month, or the beginning of February, we will be able to start accepting submissions. We will have a very careful and detail oriented submissions process that will be available on the website.

My next update will announce the launch of the website.

Asher Kelman
13-Jan-2008, 01:39
This is why I will not outsource anything to China or Hong Kong or India. Those books have an inferior level of reproduction and only utilize a 200 linescreen. Not only that, but the living conditions of those who work on the presses is terrible... sure the book will be cheap, but the people who work on it are improvrished. I do not support that and would hope no one utilizes those POD websites as most if not all of them use Asian printers.


I must say that I need an anti-nausea pill after reading about how backward these two peoples are. However, on rethinking a good kick in the butt or a case of beer or walk along the beach at dawn is what we need!

First, the people who work in India and China are not in chains. The earn what they do, which is very little but it does allow them to survive and feed their families. I have no doubt that they love their children, have fun, mischief and celebrations like in any other familiy. The more work the print press gets, the better. I don't know that being able to afford 2 cars, 8 TV's, carpets in the house in which billions of mites are having reporoductions orgies yielding feces for fungi to grow on and give us allergies! Having TV dinners and iPods doesn not make a better way of life. We are all exploited one way or another. We just waste stuff on a more lavish scale! It may be P.C. to say we won't give them the contracts, but if you did find a great shop, then it would be anticapitalistic even amoral not to give them a go at the contract! It's fine to say, "I have no sophistication or confidence to deal with these foreign socieites." That's fine by me.

I find it so unbelievable and even naive that one might imagine that neither India nor China has top level craftsmen to match almost anything we do here. Forget Belgium. They are nuts from making lace, and they are still in the art of the middle ages where craft, not massive turnover is important.

China and India are massive economies with millions of small shops able to do whatever you want. You just have to find them.

In any case, back to Michael and Paula, I dropped by at Photo LA and their work is extraordinary. The print quality is indeed second to none. I can believe that the prices will have to rise, probably by 50% to cover the rise in the Euro.

Michael seems to be more interested in doing beyond first class work than getting rich.

I'd be intrigued to know he found the same satisfaction getting work done in the USA. We'll have to see. If the project goes through, my best wishes for success.

I'll be reviewing some of the Lodima books shortly.

Asher

Michael A. Smith
14-Jan-2008, 09:16
While at Paula's and my Lodima Press booth at Photo LA several people stopped by to tell me about this thread.

After reading through it entirely, I agree with Jorge. The announcement that David made is premature.

By email, I have asked David to make no more postings or announcements or responses about this without my approval of every word. He does antagonize people and if I am to be involved in this in any way, that can no longer happen. I will be talking to him shortly.

My history with David: When the first Inked magazine came out, I read David the riot act. To say it was terrible is an understatement. Since them, however, and much to my surprise after such an inauspicious beginning, Focus magazine, the magazine that Inked transformed into, has actually become quite good in many respects.

Not long ago David asked if Lodima Press would partner with him in a business helping photographers publish their books. He would handle all business matters. Lodima Press would take care of the creative side. There are still questions Paula and I have regarding this and before anything gets started, those questions will be answered and any problems resolved.

I do not know how much money photographers will save working with us. I do know that if Paula and I are involved we will strive to help them have the best book possible given the budget constraints.

Paula and I do consult with photographers about their books. Our fee for this for the past six years has been $1,500 a day (no matter how long the day is) and was never $3,500 as Don Miller wrote earlier in this thread. Paula and I met Mr. Miller one day at his home in Kansas. We thought we had a fine meeting. but ever since then he has had a derogatory attitude toward us. We cannot understand why. His misstating our consulting fee is, I would think intentional, or else he has a faulty memory.

We print books in Belgium because, Salto, the printer we use is, in our opinion, the best printer in the world. Almost without exception the photographers whose photographs we have printed have told us that the Lodima Press book of their work has the best reproductions of their work ever. Because of the decline in the dollar, printing books with Salto in 600-line screen quadtone is very expensive.

Will the reproductions in the books Focus Fine Art publishing prouduces have reproductions that fine? I cannot say for sure, but probably not. But will they be good? Yes, at least I hope so.

it is an interesting thing about printing books to the quality Lodima Press does. Most people do not see the difference. And of those who see the difference, most do not care. But Paula and I are fanatics about quality and so we continue to print our books in Belgium.

Printing in Asia: Some Asian printers are very good. We pritned a book in China (CrashBurn Love: Demolition Derby) a book that did not need 600-line screen quadtone, and the 200 line screen duotone reproductions are excellent. Since Lodima Press only works with Salto, we formed another imprint, BackStreetBooks, for printing books in China.

Anyhow, I hope that explains my involvement in this a bit. Paula and I are traveling now and will be until the end of January and so I may be unable to repond to any further postings to this thread. For my part, I would let the thread end. Better, I would have the entire thread deleted and would ask David to start over with a new announcement when his web site about this is up and running and is fully functional.

Michael A. Smith