canvas printing equipment?

[tracksource26]

Hi all

I wonder if anyone can help me, i am looking to set up a canvas printing operation and wondered what equipment i need, i have seen many Large format printers, it seems the epsom 7800 seems a good bet, any suggestions please

also is there some software that is used for large format printing?

i would appreciate all input

thanks in advance

[Momentz]

HI
This is how i make my living, i use an epson 9800 44in wide printer, all my work is prep'd in photoshop cs2 and then sent to the printer, 7800 is just as nice but the size will be limiting, i get quite a lot of of prints bigger than 36in. anything that you print on canvas will need a protective lacquer and the cheapest but also the best is breathingcolor lacquer, i also use there canvas to which is the brillance chromata white, the colours are fantastic once you get the gloss finish on them and there wrapped

hope this helps

[Greg Lockrey]

I second in getting the larger printer. You lose 4" off your dimension for the wrap.

[Lenny Eiger]

Hi all

I wonder if anyone can help me, i am looking to set up a canvas printing operation and wondered what equipment i need, i have seen many Large format printers, it seems the epsom 7800 seems a good bet, any suggestions please

also is there some software that is used for large format printing?

i would appreciate all input

thanks in advance

It depends on what level of operation you want to engage in. If you want a small operation, possibly out of you home or studio, then an Epson might be it. If you want a larger operation, a little more of a real business (not that home businesses aren't real), then a Roland is a better bet. They are a more expensive, but you pay for the quality. They are built to last - and print every day, all day.

I use one with a dVinci setup, which is 12 colors, a mixture of 8 colors and 4 blacks. It's a great system...

Lenny
EigerStudios.com

[Greg Lockrey]

It depends on what level of operation you want to engage in. If you want a small operation, possibly out of you home or studio, then an Epson might be it. If you want a larger operation, a little more of a real business (not that home businesses aren't real), then a Roland is a better bet. They are a more expensive, but you pay for the quality. They are built to last - and print every day, all day.

I use one with a dVinci setup, which is 12 colors, a mixture of 8 colors and 4 blacks. It's a great system...

Lenny
EigerStudios.com


It would all depend if you could fill that Roland with 400 square feet an hour in order to pay for it. :) Most of us are lucky just to get to do 200 square feet in a day.

[Lenny Eiger]

It would all depend if you could fill that Roland with 400 square feet an hour in order to pay for it. :) Most of us are lucky just to get to do 200 square feet in a day.

I pay about $700 a month for my lease on my Pro2. That included a lot for software, warranty on the machine, a set of ink, etc. Is it reasonable? I don't know. I just look at it as rent... It's my main machine, printed all night long last night...

I just picked up another one, an older one, an FJ-500, 54 inch wide, 8 slot machine for 3K.

Lenny

[Ted Harris]

Hmmm ...... 700 a month, that is more per year than the purchase price of any 44" printer from Canon, Epson or HP. Sure it is the best and sure it is worth it if you can justify it on the basis of production volume. Otherwise I don't think you can tell the difference in output between the Roland and the others if you are looking at anything from a few feet away. For art repro even if you stick your nose in the print.

Lenny, "just rent" ... do you do the volume to justify that rent? Does it pay for itself or run at a loss?

[Lenny Eiger]

Hmmm ...... 700 a month, that is more per year than the purchase price of any 44" printer from Canon, Epson or HP. Sure it is the best and sure it is worth it if you can justify it on the basis of production volume. Otherwise I don't think you can tell the difference in output between the Roland and the others if you are looking at anything from a few feet away. For art repro even if you stick your nose in the print.

Lenny, "just rent" ... do you do the volume to justify that rent? Does it pay for itself or run at a loss?

I actually have a business that does a lot of printing for others. We focus on the highest quality, our idea is that this is the place you come when you want to absolute best. Sorry for the unabashed plug...

I can tell you that I have had so much trouble with Epson's, we finally unplugged the last one. Constant cleaning, it always wants to take another 5 inches before a cut, and when you do clean, it takes ink from all channels. The Epson's print well, not quite as good as a dVinci system, but very good. The heads aren't the problem.

However, they are made for casual use, not business use, and they are made to break. Engineered for it, I have concluded after using them for years and years. For example., the paper lever works by virtue of nylon soft plastic gears that are installed with a pin that is inserted into a hole in sheet metal. There is no metal collar on the plastic pin, nor washers, etc. The hole in the metal is not perfectly round and so every time you pull the lever you will wear it down a little more. It's just a matter of time. This one I just unplugged was a 9600 and pulling a cartridge out, the contact pin for the chip caught on the lip and came out. We had to take the whole thing apart, over 100 screws. The guys that engineered this thing are either totally incompetent or deliberately trying to make life difficult and expensive. For this simple repair, it cost almost $1000.

If you open up a Roland, it is all laid out so that you can take care of it. You can access the heads and look at the surface. Changing a damper takes about a minute, and you don't get ink all over you. Further, it cuts where you ask it - and that alone saves me enough paper in a year to take care of a payment or two. You clean one of three channels - that's a third of the ink for a cleaning cycle, which it needs about 1/4 of the time the Epson did (yes, same ink type). Installing and realigning a head takes about an hour vs as bad as 6 hours for an Epson. Techs cost about $175 per hour - the math is compelling. As well as what happens when you are down and you need to get the work out for a customer with a show coming up this weekend...

As I stated, I don't complain about the print quality. While I have a much wider gamut than an Epson, and a smoother looking print (from better UCR), what you really pay for in a Roland is a well built machine that you can depend on.

Finally, with regard to viewing distance - I don't believe in it. I have large prints here in the studio. The first thing every single person does is go right up to it, as close as they can focus. Unless you have a definable distance, with a rope to keep people away from it, that's what they do. When we reproduce a painting, we actually do our best to match every single color. Much of the time we get there. This is what makes us happy - doing our best vs what is good enough. If you want to do work that is good enough, then you probably ought not to work with artists and possibly work for corporate clients, in which case the equipment set is quite different, usually more expensive... and the business model is different as well.

I understand that some folks have to start "in the garage" and build up a business. I still consider myself to be in the garage in many ways. Cheaper printers can really help one get started. That's a business decision, however. When you can, move up to a more stable platform, something you can depend on, and make your life a lot easier.

That's my 2 cents...

Lenny
EigerStudios

[QT Luong]

Further, it cuts where you ask it - and that alone saves me enough paper in a year to take care of a payment or two.

Agree with waste in cutting, but I thought you couldn't use the built-in cutter for canvas on the Epson, and had to do a manual cut ? When you do so, you certainly cut where you want too.

[Lenny Eiger]

Agree with waste in cutting, but I thought you couldn't use the built-in cutter for canvas on the Epson, and had to do a manual cut ? When you do so, you certainly cut where you want too.

QT,

You are correct, of course. Canvas is a small part of what we do... so I wasn't thinking about this specifically... it's a major cost (and annoyance) factor for our operation.

Lenny

[Greg Lockrey]

I understand that some folks have to start "in the garage" and build up a business. I still consider myself to be in the garage in many ways. Cheaper printers can really help one get started. That's a business decision, however. When you can, move up to a more stable platform, something you can depend on, and make your life a lot easier.

Sounds like your operation is at where I can only dream of. My primary business is making prints for artists and most printers here don't want that business because it's too demanding. I do get some commercial work to make trade show displays. I get very little signage, there are enough printers locally cutting each others throat for that market. I currently have 3 Epson 9600's (had 5 at one time but it was too hard to fill the line time) I never had the trouble I keep hearing about on the net. If one breaks down, there are two to pick up the slack just in case. Most of what I run is 24" anyway but for an extra $1000.00 I have a 44" capability. I bought my first one when they first came out. As far as I know, I was the first one in Toledo, OH to get one. These machines are cheap enough to be treated like toasters, that is throw them away if they break down. Having started printing businesses before (photography) I took the approach this time to buy when I need to and not buy and try to fill the need. So far this plan has worked well for me. Actually the way the business has been running in the fine art market in these parts, smaller printers like the 4800 do just fine for most of the card market and smaller prints. I perused your site, to get $125 for a 35mm scan, WOW....around here, $2.00 is "robbery". But I do understand where you are coming from, just that no one here does. ;) ;)

[Lenny Eiger]

Sounds like your operation is at where I can only dream of.

Thank you - it's nice to know I have gotten somewhere... sometimes it's hard to tell. I'm still working way too hard...


These machines are cheap enough to be treated like toasters, that is throw them away if they break down.

I know, that's what a lot of people say. I would rather have one good, working machine that prints quickly and efficiently and doesn't break down than three that do. To each his own, however. I do happen to be a tool junky.


I perused your site, to get $125 for a 35mm scan, WOW....around here, $2.00 is "robbery". But I do understand where you are coming from, just that no one here does. ;) ;)

Education is a tough part of this. Do people do the same quality scan for $2 that I do for $100? No, of course not. I'm using an Aztek Premier, arguably the finest scanner ever made, only the later ICG's are even in its class. I deliver 500 mb, or 96 megapixels from a 35mm, and most of my scanning is med format or 4x5, at which point clients get 1.75 Gigs of 16 bit data (over 300 megapixels). It takes a lot to learn how to operate a drum scanner, to pull everything out of a neg or chrome, and if one is interested in quality, its worth every bit. (IMO).

In, San Francisco, the most popular lab charges about double what I charge for full resolution scans - and their scanner is half the sharpness of mine. It's actually a good deal, in my mind to have someone who really knows what they are doing work on your images, with your style, criteria in mind. It takes a while as well. A medium format scan at 8,000 dpi can take some time to mount up the drum and 45 mins to scan. Gotta pay for the scanner somehow....

The $2 scan is usually a flatbed, or other CCD scanner. They can't compare.

I worked into the wee hours last night, so if the above is rambling and unintelligible, I apologize.. I'm not running on all cylinders.

Lenny

[Ted Harris]

I'm using an Aztek Premier, arguably the finest scanner ever made, only the later ICG's are even in its class.

Lenny, You've said this before and we have discussed it but we are just going to have to agree to disagree. There have been tests that show that the best of the high-end flatbeds perform as well or better than any drum scanner. That aside, i totally agree that at the low end what you generally get is someone using, at best an Imacon, and you get no special attention.

I spoke to a lab this afternoon that was asking my advice on handling some scans of old deteriorating film. As we were talking it turned out that they didn't do much in the way of preping individual scans. They were very surprised when I told them I custom set each scan for a client. We all also know how important the operator is in the equation. Lenny is an expert, so am I but that doesn't necessarily hold for all labs. Getting individual attention on your scans is like getting a hand made dodged and burned print custom done in the old days ... takes time and skill.

[Lenny Eiger]

Lenny, You've said this before and we have discussed it but we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

Respectful disagreement is a good thing. However, I will say that on the Scan High End list there is a fellow who has stated this, that there are studies, etc, but he hasn't been able to produce anything. The comparisons on Luminous Landscape have been incompetent, at best, totally off. Scannerforum.com has some independent comparisons I trust. Further, the low end flatbeds and the Imacon do not compare and while the high end flatbeds do have a lawnmower strategy that makes a lot of sense, they are still up against the laws of physics. The PMT's don't have to go thru a lens. Whether this can all be seen is a matter of a few different things, such as size, the type of print, etc.




I spoke to a lab this afternoon that was asking my advice on handling some scans of old deteriorating film. As we were talking it turned out that they didn't do much in the way of preping individual scans. They were very surprised when I told them I custom set each scan for a client. We all also know how important the operator is in the equation. Lenny is an expert, so am I but that doesn't necessarily hold for all labs. Getting individual attention on your scans is like getting a hand made dodged and burned print custom done in the old days ... takes time and skill.

Thank you for your kind words.... I have heard a lot of horror stories about scanner operators at labs. One fellow caught a lab charging him $250 for a drum scan of an 8x10 that was actually done on a flatbed. For some labs, embracing digital has been ok, but I think these are the exceptions. It's hard to compare a lab, which develops rolls of film at low cost, with hopefully high volume, where speed is the key, to a scanner operation where care is necessary for a good result. The lab I mentioned above had some 15 year old kid running a $100,00 scanner. I think the small personal shop is the way to go. Of course, I am biased, as that's the way I run things. Everything's guaranteed, etc. That's why I was up all last night - I was fixing something I messed up. Client was happy today... thankfully...

I have no beef with any great scanner. The only beef I have is when someone tries to tell me its a Maserati and its not even a car, its a jackass. Its true that someone can do some nice work on an Epson scanner that will do a reasonable 8x10 print, after way too much sharpening, etc. But it isn't a professional tool, and it isn't capable of a full rez image at 40 inches. It ain't a Maserati. I don't think an Eversmart can compete, but who knows, really, unless you do the same neg, both are very experienced and the criteria is clear. As soon as you have clear criteria, you are usually in the realm of things like sharpness, which are only a very small part of photography. There are a lot of intangibles. So if some uses a high end flatbed and is successful with it, I say great. I feel very lucky to have this drum scanner. It works like a dream...

Lenny

[Greg Lockrey]

In, San Francisco, the most popular lab charges about double what I charge for full resolution scans - and their scanner is half the sharpness of mine. It's actually a good deal, in my mind to have someone who really knows what they are doing work on your images, with your style, criteria in mind. It takes a while as well. A medium format scan at 8,000 dpi can take some time to mount up the drum and 45 mins to scan. Gotta pay for the scanner somehow....

The $2 scan is usually a flatbed, or other CCD scanner. They can't compare.


The more established printers locally farm out their high resolution scans down to Bowling Green State University (a FLAAR facility). I don't handle that much film to digital scans so I don't know how they handle those but I do get a fair amout of reflective art scans from them that quite frankly leaves a lot questions in my mind as to why they charge so much for a 240 ppi rgb 8 bit scan. I'm just a poor country boy from Michigan but at least I do 720 ppi rgb 16 bit with my junkey little Epson 10000xl. Pieces larger than 12x17" are then stitched together in PS. Very large pieces are done with a digital camera. I'm satisfied with the amount that I charge and they are happy to pay. I know about the concept of paying for the machine.;) But until my clients can afford and require me to be more high end, I'll just have to make do. So far they are pleased with the results that I give them. As for having multible decent printers verses one really good one, even the best ones break down and with all your eggs in one basket, your'e out of business. If my volume was such that a 400 sqft/hr printer was in fact necessary, I'd buy one in a heart beat. I'm just not near enough to that kind of market unless I want to start making "For Sale" signs for realtors or shrink wrap for busses. Like I said before, that market is dog eat dog. I really don't want to work that hard any way.:D

[aviationimages]

Hi everyone, New to this and I need some help I take professional aviation images and would like to start offering canvas to my customers but have NO clue what equipment or image enlarging software I need can I ask for help in someone advising what I need to start this facility thanks in advance ian

[ashle123]

Ok friends, I have a picture frame which holds 4x6 pictures vertically. Well, most my 4x6 pictures are horizontal of course. Therefore, I want to make my horizontal 4x6 pictures, vertical to fit in my new frame. I'm sure that I would lose some detail from the sides of these pictures when turned vertically if this is even possible. How do I adjust a picture, from horizontal to vertical? Please help me. Have a nice day.

[Lenny Eiger]

Ok friends, I have a picture frame which holds 4x6 pictures vertically. Well, most my 4x6 pictures are horizontal of course. Therefore, I want to make my horizontal 4x6 pictures, vertical to fit in my new frame. I'm sure that I would lose some detail from the sides of these pictures when turned vertically if this is even possible. How do I adjust a picture, from horizontal to vertical? Please help me. Have a nice day.

The command is called "rotate canvas". In Photoshop its on the Image menu.

Lenny

[roshka177]

Lenny can you please tell me what is the exact model of your Roland printer. I am trying to start canvas printing shop and your description f the Roland printer was amazing so I have decided to get the one you described.

[Sideshow Bob]

This thread is over two years old. You should PM Lenny for a faster response.

Gale

[footoograaf]

roshka177,

I'm in the similar business and I use epson 11880 with EFI RIP for my work (fine art/ giclee) call it whatever you like. Prints are amazing but expensive, I charge 120-200 euro/m2 for prints on canvas.

For commercial work I would go with epson GS6000. Friend of mine is having one and prints are excellent and not expensive approx. 8 eur/m2 on canvas. He is also using EFI RIP.

[Lenny Eiger]

Lenny can you please tell me what is the exact model of your Roland printer. I am trying to start canvas printing shop and your description f the Roland printer was amazing so I have decided to get the one you described.

I have twin FJ-540's, one for color and one for b&w. There are some considerations, however. Roland has decided to stay out of the fine art market. As good as these machines are, Roland has focused on the banner printing and wrap printing arenas.

What most folks don't know is that Epson is quite tyrannical. I am certain that they let Roland know to stay away from the Fine Art market or be vanquished. They forced my software vendor to not support b&w inks anymore - or be forced out - by not having the codes for the new machines. This kind of behavior should be punished by the market, and by our laws, but I have no say in this. Certainly, a boycott is in order, if nothing else.

So, if you want a printer that will print day in and day out for years, where the parts are metal, and you know how to run your own RIP, then there are a lot of choices including Roland, Mimaki, Mutoh and others. I happen to like Roland the best but they are all built better than an Epson.

On the other hand, if you want a system where software support is consistent, there are lots of consultants who know the machines and can help you get set up, then I think you should buy the biggest baddest Epson you can find.

(This is my opinion, of course, and just the way I see it today. I am sure some will disagree, and I welcome it. There is always something to learn.)

I don't have a new Epson yet, as i don't need it. My printers are working very well. However, I won't buy Epson paper or Epson ink - even if it was great. I do have choice in that, at least, and its my little vote against their mafia-like behavior.

Lenny

EigerStudios
eiger@eigerstudios.com

[arobertson1]

I can tell you that I have had so much trouble with Epson's, we finally unplugged the last one.

Completely agree. We had an Epson 10000 which went the same way. Always a pain to work with. We finally we went with HP and found it much better. Both using it and also maintenance are much easier. The built in spectrophotometer makes calibrations a doodle! Now all our canvas prints (http://www.canvasprintmaker.co.uk) are spot on first time - far less wastage.

[rallys]

Hello there, do you guys think that an older epson 9800 would get me some places?

I have a friend who is willing to pass or hand down his epson 9800 44 inches printer. He has advised me about the whole printing process including handling prints on canvas and the like.

So, what other things do I need to get me started? I am savvy with photoshop so that would be no problem.

[hyipik]

Dear Sirs,

please allow me reopen this older thread cause i think my question should be answered here and i didnt want to spam opening new thread.

I would like to buy "hand painted, oil painting on canvas" but im worried its not handmade but its printed with high quality printer. Can you please advise me if its possible ?

Painting is approximately 100 x 90 cm and seller says its 100 % painted by artist, by oil colors and painted on canvas and stretched on wood. Price is only 40 eur and i find it very low for such painting

I really would like to buy hand painted picture and dont want to be cheated. I am very thankful for your advices

Please see link below. Picture represents painting i would like to buy


http://i42.tinypic.com/ftzq1e.png


Thank you very much

[John Brady]

Every once in a while this thread pops back up and I start reading it from scratch again. Half way through I realize it's this old thread I've read it before, it's he'll getting old.

There's some really bizarre posts in here. Nice to read posts from Ted Harris again though, he was a great guy and somehow lives on through this thread.

I guess now I'm guilty of adding another strange post to this thread.

www.timeandlight.com

[Lenny Eiger]

Just the other day someone said "HP's are crap". I have no dog in this race, but I find it amusing that people have such differing opinions.

Lenny

[cdholden]

Just the other day someone said "HP's are crap". I have no dog in this race, but I find it amusing that people have such differing opinions.

Lenny

Think of it as customer service (as I'm sure you already do!). One bad experience will stick in one's memory much longer than a good experience. One tends to tell more people about a bad experience than a good one also.
Being in a service oriented business, I understand and appreciate it. I find myself forming similar opinions about products and services, but also place emphasis on whether the opinion is based on a single or multiple events.

[murray78]

Hello, friend for large canvas prints you can try Magnipic.com. Some site offer a good large canvas prints but they not give a good resolution but Magnipic gives both. In order to protect the original photo's quality and ensure best results, it is required to enlarge the photo on canvas with special software and monitoring tools. When enlarging photo to canvas, the resolution would determine the quality of the enlarged canvas print. At Magnipic.com they use state of the art software and printing equipment that uses digital data in order to improve the photo's resolution. For more Visit www.Magnipic.com