Learning curve?

[sog1927]

So how hard is it to become a competent scanner/printer with modern, relatively high-end scanning hardware and software? I'm a relatively capable (if somewhat out of practice) wet darkroom guy (although hardly a master printer) and digital hardware doesn't intimidate me in the least (30 years of writing operating system code and device drivers will do that for you), but I'm curious how long it takes to get to the point where you can produce results you aren't ashamed of.

Steve

[Gordon Moat]

Probably after the first 100 images.

[Bruce Watson]

So how hard is it to become a competent scanner/printer with modern, relatively high-end scanning hardware and software?

Depends. Each scanner is different with different strengths and weaknesses. Software is different too with it's own idiosyncrasities, as you well know I'm sure. Then there's your motivation and interest, how "quality conscious" you are, etc., etc., etc.

That said, it's not any more difficult than learning how to use a view camera. Even drum scanning isn't any more difficult than that. Just like a view camera, scanning follows the curve of diminishing returns. That is, in the beginning you get better fast, as time goes on you continue to get better but at a slower rate. As long as your try to get better, you will, just at an ever slower rate.

If anything, printing is perhaps a bit more difficult, if only because there are so many variables and so much of it is subjective. But it's basically the same drill. The more you print and try to get better, the more you improve.

[Sylvester Graham]

Perhaps this:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=27384

thread might be of interest to you. Yes, I started it, but usually the threads I start are the ones I remember most.

[Bruce Barlow]

Think about taking Ted Harris's scanning workshop offered at MidWest Photo and other places. You're in good shape if you know wet darkroom stuff, he thinks it helps with digital apparatus and software. You'll be quite comfortable and competent with it all in three days. www.fourpointlanding.com for details.

[Greg Lockrey]

I'm pretty much a self taught kind of guy too. I had a wet lab over 25 years until digital came along and the terms for color, density, etc were already understandable to me. Since you wrote code, I would imagine that you are already light years ahead of my starting point. It ain't rocket science.:) The key thing to really understand is to know the limitation of the black point and white point in terms of what the printer is capable of. (Maybe this is a secret I should have kept to myself.) ;)

[Ted Harris]

Thanks Bruce.

Going back to the OP's statement, "modern, relatively high-end scanning hardware and software" covers a lot of ground and is too general for a good response. Most of the scanning software that I have ever used is capable of giving you decent scans when set in whatever the package calls the auto mode .... as long as you are scanning a well exposed negative or transparency. Once you start to deal with film that has wide density ranges, is slightly to a good deal over or under exposed, has difficult shadow detail or highlight values, etc. then you need to start making decisions and that is where you need to start marching up the learning curve.

If by "relatively high-end" you are talking about the prosumer photo scanners such as the Epson 4990, V700/750 or Microtek i900/800/M1 then the answer is that from the perspective of most master printers these are ot considered high-end by any stretch of the imagination but rather entry-level. They will give you a scan that with care and experience will serve you well for smaller prints ... up to 11x14 and sometimes a bit larger.

[M Brian Mills]

I'm curious how long it takes to get to the point where you can produce results you aren't ashamed of.

Steve

I think that it depends largely on how you feel about the work you create now. If you aren't ashamed of the work you make in the "traditional" darkroom, and you are comfortable with computers and peripherals then you might be happier with the results in a shorter amount of time than in the darkroom.

The important part is making sure that you have a good workflow in place and that you create color profiles for your equipment (or you learn the color eccentricities of your equipment and how to compensate for them).

You also have to think of the equipment for your digital darkroom in much the same way you think of the equipment for your traditional darkroom. You will be limited to the capabilities of the equipment.

I spend all of my time these days in a digital darkroom and have found that I prefer it over years in a traditional darkroom.

[sog1927]

I suppose I should've been a little more specific. While a prosumer scanner has its appeal as a means of quickly and cheaply digitizing work, many of the posts here (especially yours, by the way) have already persuaded me that I should be saving my pennies for a refurbished prepress scanner of some sort (the iqsmart2 looks pretty good). 16x20 is probably my most common print size for medium format, and I'd probably be interested in going larger with large format work. I don't think I can do that with a prosumer. Most of my color work is Velvia, and I suspect that none of the prosumer scanners are capable of handling the density range in some of my transparencies well.

I think I should probably sign up for one of your workshops the next time you do one in the Southwest ;-)

So, to rephrase my question: How long does it take to become a competent operator of something like an iqsmart or a drum scanner? Would it be worth acquiring a prosumer scanner just to gain familiarity with the tools?

Steve


Thanks Bruce.

Going back to the OP's statement, "modern, relatively high-end scanning hardware and software" covers a lot of ground and is too general for a good response. Most of the scanning software that I have ever used is capable of giving you decent scans when set in whatever the package calls the auto mode .... as long as you are scanning a well exposed negative or transparency. Once you start to deal with film that has wide density ranges, is slightly to a good deal over or under exposed, has difficult shadow detail or highlight values, etc. then you need to start making decisions and that is where you need to start marching up the learning curve.

If by "relatively high-end" you are talking about the prosumer photo scanners such as the Epson 4990, V700/750 or Microtek i900/800/M1 then the answer is that from the perspective of most master printers these are ot considered high-end by any stretch of the imagination but rather entry-level. They will give you a scan that with care and experience will serve you well for smaller prints ... up to 11x14 and sometimes a bit larger.

[gr82bart]

I'm curious how long it takes to get to the point where you can produce results you aren't ashamed of. This is cliche answer, but it really depends on you. Some people pick up PS like nothing and in a month or two their good to go. Others may take a lot longer. Also, it depends how much time you have to 'practice'. Like any new skill, the more practice, the more perfected your skills.

In the end though, it comes down to your vision too. The scanner and PS are just new tools, so once you've mastered the ins and outs of the scanner and PS, it's what you do with it takes further refinement.

One thing I would recommend is not to jump into the solutions too fast. There are multiple ways to do things in PS and each way has a purpose. So you almost have to suspend what you've learned traditionally to understand the capabilities of your scanner and PS then apply it to what you would like the end product to be. If you cloud it with how you do things in the wet darkroom today, it won't necessarily make you better - might be worse off actually.

Anyway, good luck. It's just another journey in the photographic field.

Regards, Art.