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View Full Version : Lots of 4x10 stuff on ebay



davidb
23-Aug-2007, 20:53
This seller (http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZsetoro69), has listed a bunch of 4x10 items.

Just a heads up.

audioexcels
23-Aug-2007, 22:08
This seller (http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZsetoro69), has listed a bunch of 4x10 items.

Just a heads up.

And now we are all going to be bid war-ing against each other...fellow LF friend, sorry I beat ya!...doesn't seem too nice to me, but thanks for the post. It's one heck of a kit no doubt.

Nick_3536
24-Aug-2007, 02:44
Looks to be all Wisner stuff. Only people bidding will be those using Wisners. Maybe the Mido holders will fit the more common Canham standard?

alec4444
24-Aug-2007, 03:37
What really caught my eye was the pair of Shimano lady cycling shoes! :o

I saw this stuff too...thx for posting!

-A

Jay W
28-Aug-2007, 09:03
My first thought was "cool" since I own a Wisner. Then I started thinking that it's probably difficult to get 4x10 film (and dusty to cut 8x10). I'd have limited holders, and that I could stitch together a couple 4x5 images and do something similar. (I've switched to inkjet printing.) So maybe not....

Jay

Jay W
28-Aug-2007, 14:23
If you're interested in this 4x10 stuff, you might find Kerry's article interesting:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/4x10.html

Jay

Robert Skeoch
28-Aug-2007, 14:35
I don't think 4x10 film is as hard to get as people might believe. I've sold six boxes of it so far this month to three different clients. I only sell Ilford but there are other options as well that other's might import.

It's such a great shape and the cameras seem nice to use.

-Rob Skeoch

Nick_3536
28-Aug-2007, 15:05
It's such a great shape and the cameras seem nice to use.

-Rob Skeoch

No worse then an 8x10 if you're using a reducing back :D

Kerry L. Thalmann
29-Aug-2007, 10:52
Looks to be all Wisner stuff. Only people bidding will be those using Wisners. Maybe the Mido holders will fit the more common Canham standard?

No, the 4x10 Mido holders were made specifically to fit the Wisner. In fact, when I owned my 4x10 Wisner back in the mid-1990s, they were the ONLY available option in 4x10 holders to fit the Wisner (and the main reason I sold my Wisner). They are based on the old 4x10 x-ray holder standard, which is basically a long 4x5 holder (same t-distance, width, thickness as a standard 4x5 holder, just longer). No other 4x10 camera that I know of uses this type of holder.

The 4x10 cameras on the market use holders that are basically skinny 8x10 holders (same t-distance, thickness, rib lock location as standard 8x10 holders, just not as wide). This is due to the fact that these holders are generally made from parts from 8x10 holders that are cut down and glued together.

So, no, the holders this seller has up for auction won't work with a Canham (or any other non-Wisner 4x10 camera).

Kerry

Nick_3536
29-Aug-2007, 11:02
Kerry do you know who makes the made in Hong Kong 4x10s? I got some from Shen and they're okay I guess. I am hoping the Shen Hao 5x7 holders will be a bit higher quality .

Kerry L. Thalmann
29-Aug-2007, 16:22
Kerry do you know who makes the made in Hong Kong 4x10s? I got some from Shen and they're okay I guess. I am hoping the Shen Hao 5x7 holders will be a bit higher quality .

I'm not sure who is making them. The concept/methods are identical to the 4x10 Canham holders (fused bits of 8x10 holder parts), but the materials aren't quite up to the same level of quality as the Canham/Fidelity holders (for example the dark slides on the one's I've seen are made from a thin, flimsy plastic).

The good news is new 4x10 holders from Fotoman are on the way soon. These will be compatible with the Canham holder standard, but they are true, purpose-built 4x10 holders made from dedicated molds. Paul Droluk has stated they are leveraging the design/construction techniques used by Toyo for the construction of their excellent holders (of course, Toyo never made any 4x10 holders, but they do make the best 4x5 and 8x10 holders available). I'll be getting a couple of the 4x10 Fotoman holders within the next month to test/review.

Kerry

Nick_3536
29-Aug-2007, 17:17
It will be nice to have more choice for holders. Thanks.

audioexcels
29-Aug-2007, 21:26
If you're interested in this 4x10 stuff, you might find Kerry's article interesting:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/4x10.html

Jay

And the weight...that back has to weigh about 4-5lbs for the Wisner...

audioexcels
29-Aug-2007, 21:34
No, the 4x10 Mido holders were made specifically to fit the Wisner. In fact, when I owned my 4x10 Wisner back in the mid-1990s, they were the ONLY available option in 4x10 holders to fit the Wisner (and the main reason I sold my Wisner). They are based on the old 4x10 x-ray holder standard, which is basically a long 4x5 holder (same t-distance, width, thickness as a standard 4x5 holder, just longer). No other 4x10 camera that I know of uses this type of holder.

The 4x10 cameras on the market use holders that are basically skinny 8x10 holders (same t-distance, thickness, rib lock location as standard 8x10 holders, just not as wide). This is due to the fact that these holders are generally made from parts from 8x10 holders that are cut down and glued together.

So, no, the holders this seller has up for auction won't work with a Canham (or any other non-Wisner 4x10 camera).

Kerry

No offense, but that's the lamest thing I have ever heard...talk about market propaganda. Good thing to know as there's no point to bid on them unless one is to use that specific back.

Kerry...out of curiousity, do you know if that back can fit onto any other standards besides the Wisner? I.E. Can it fit a Zone VI, as an example since both cameras are quite alike, or something else similar such as one of the lighter 4X5's in the Wisner lineup? Also, do you happen to know how large the back is weight wise and dimensions wise? I imagine it must be about 5lbs which would be completely overkill for the weight conscious people, and those that know 8X10 cams can weigh 6lbs and use splitters and "real" holders for 4X10 work.

Nick_3536
30-Aug-2007, 03:27
http://www.harrysproshop.com/Wisner/410/410.html

Harry's has some info on a Wisner he once had. The back can't be that heavy since it seems the whole camera weighed less then 8lbs

Ron Bose
30-Aug-2007, 07:49
Harry sold this a while back, the ebay seller is also in Toronto, I wonder if it's the same camera ???

Kerry L. Thalmann
30-Aug-2007, 09:05
No offense, but that's the lamest thing I have ever heard...talk about market propaganda. Good thing to know as there's no point to bid on them unless one is to use that specific back.

Not so much market propaganda as lack of communication. Keith Canham made the first general purpose 4x10 view camera as a special order item for a customer back in the early 1990s. Making the camera was no problem for Keith, but as there were no 4x10 holders available, he came up with the creative solution to make some 4x10 holders using 8x10 parts he purchased from Fidelity.

It proved to work so well, he started offering the 4x10 camera and holders as part of his standard product line. Once Wisner saw that Canham was selling 4x10 cameras, he decided he needed to offer one to keep up with the competition. Unfortunately, he neglected to pick up the phone and call his competitor to ask what he was doing for holders and built his camera based on the old 4x10 x-ray holder standard. Double unfortunately, nobody had made any holders in that size in over 25 years. Unless you lucked out and found some old x-ray holders collecting dust as a local vet, you couldn't get any holders for your shiny new 4x10 Wisner. So, Wisner contracted with Mido to make his thin Mido II holders and clamshell spacer in the 4x10 x-ray size.

This is what I purchased with my 4x10 Wisner back in 1994. They leaked light like crazy. I spent over two years sending the holders back and forth to Mido trying to get them light tight. The performance did improve marginally with each iteration, but there were still too many light leaks to make it worth the effort. So, I sold the whole 4x5/4x10 Wisner outfit to Burkland Kiegeland. He had the same opinion of the Mido holders and had a craftsman make some wooden 4x10 holders to fit the Wisner camera. And thus, Lotus View Camera was born.

A better solution would have been to send the Wisner back to Keith Canham to be modified to accept his holders. Keith offered to do so at a very reasonable price, but I never took him up on his offer.


Kerry...out of curiousity, do you know if that back can fit onto any other standards besides the Wisner? I.E. Can it fit a Zone VI, as an example since both cameras are quite alike, or something else similar such as one of the lighter 4X5's in the Wisner lineup? Also, do you happen to know how large the back is weight wise and dimensions wise? I imagine it must be about 5lbs which would be completely overkill for the weight conscious people, and those that know 8X10 cams can weigh 6lbs and use splitters and "real" holders for 4X10 work.

It won't fit a Zone VI. I had a Zone VI prior to purchasing the Wisner and asked Ron specifically about this. The rear focus rails on the Wisner were slightly larger and the spacing might have also been a bit different. So, I sold my Zone VI and bought a 4x5 Wisner Tech Field with the 4x10 conversion kit, five Mido II holders and a clamshell spacer.

As far as the weight goes, it's not that bad. Not ultralight, but definitely less 5 lbs. I don't know what the weight of the back alone is, but the whole camera weighed somewhere around 7.5 lbs. (give or take a few ounces). It does incorporate the ridiculous Wisner "patented rear rise". I find rear rise to be the most useless movement on a field camera. In all my years shooting large format landscapes I've never had the need to use rear rise on any field camera. And the Wisner implementation of this feature adds a lot of weight (four big brass knobs and brass rails), adds cost and reduces stability. It also has the geared rear tilt. This feature I did find useful, but it's not a true axis tilt - the back moves up and down slightly as you adjust the tilt so you have to go through an iteration or two of tilt/recompose, tilt/recompose to get things perfect. The back is also quite bulky, much more so than the 4x10 Lotus back I used on my Swiss Lotus.

All that said, I may end up bidding on it if it goes cheap enough. Thanks to eBay over the last several years, I've managed to do something I wasn't able to accomplish when I owned my 4x10 Wisner - I now have several 4x10 x-ray holders, both "modern" Lisco plastic holders and older Kodak and Alcon wooden holders, that would fit this back. All I really want is the back, not the whole rear standard, that I would adapt to fit my Swiss Lotus so I can use it with the x-ray holders I have. Or, maybe I should just sell all the x-ray holders and buy some more Canham or Fotoman holders to fit my current camera.

If you're really interested in a lightweight 4x10 field camera, we are considering offering one of our 4x10 conversion kits to fit the Toho. Such a configuration would probably weigh less than 4 lbs. total for the entire 4x10 camera. I've been thinking about this for years for my own use and if there is enough interest, we could build a few and offer them to other Toho users.

Kerry

Bruce Watson
30-Aug-2007, 09:26
If you're really interested in a lightweight 4x10 field camera, we are considering offering one of our 4x10 conversion kits to fit the Toho. Such a configuration would probably weigh less than 4 lbs. total for the entire 4x10 camera. I've been thinking about this for years for my own use and if there is enough interest, we could build a few and offer them to other Toho users.

I'm using a 4x5 Toho so I'm all ears! Two questions. Do you have to dedicate the camera to 4x10? How does the camera do verticals?

Kerry L. Thalmann
30-Aug-2007, 09:48
I'm using a 4x5 Toho so I'm all ears! Two questions. Do you have to dedicate the camera to 4x10? How does the camera do verticals?

Bruce,

I mentioned it in another thread (the one on the whole plate Ebony)... you can see a photo of our prototype 4x10 conversion kit for the ARCA-SWISS at:

www.reallybigcameras.com (http://www.reallybigcameras.com/)

If we make a conversion kit for the Toho, it would be a complete "top half" consisting of the rear frame, bellows and front frame (just like the 4x5 Toho, only wider). That way you could share one "bottom half" (telescoping rails and front and rear function carriers) with both top halves.

As far as verticals go, the Toho would probably be light enough to shoot an occasional vertical with the camera flopped on its side. For those that shoot a lot of verticals, we will be offering a "vertical orientation kit" as an option for our ARCA-SWISS kit. For the ARCA-SWISS this consists of a second mounting plate and a riser block to center the front standard on the 10" film dimension. We may be able to offer something similar for the Toho, if there is a demand.

Kerry

Bruce Watson
30-Aug-2007, 10:37
Very interesting. You might be able to buy the lens stage from Toho - might save some design work. Is there a mailing list I can subscribe to for announcements?

Kerry L. Thalmann
30-Aug-2007, 10:45
Very interesting. You might be able to buy the lens stage from Toho - might save some design work. Is there a mailing list I can subscribe to for announcements?

Bruce,

No mailing list (yet), but I will post a formal announcement here once we are in production and ready to ship conversion kits. That should be sometime this fall for the 4x10 ARCA-SWISS conversion kit, followed every couple of months by additional kits in other formats (whole plate - aka 6½x8½ next, followed by 7x17, then perhaps 7x11 and/or 5x12 - whatever the market demands) and additional platforms (ARCA-SWISS 171 and 141, Sinar F, Toho, etc.).

Kerry

audioexcels
31-Aug-2007, 08:54
Bruce,

No mailing list (yet), but I will post a formal announcement here once we are in production and ready to ship conversion kits. That should be sometime this fall for the 4x10 ARCA-SWISS conversion kit, followed every couple of months by additional kits in other formats (whole plate - aka 6½x8½ next, followed by 7x17, then perhaps 7x11 and/or 5x12 - whatever the market demands) and additional platforms (ARCA-SWISS 171 and 141, Sinar F, Toho, etc.).

Kerry

A Toho 4X10 conversion that weighs 4lbs. I know "many" will want that one. I think that Wisner back went way overpriced. Good for the seller, but I would have purchased an 8X10 camera for couple lbs more like the Tachihara or Wista for less and just used splitters for 4X10...