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Jon Warwick
21-Aug-2007, 11:58
Final question for a potential LF newbie ..... I am interested in the Ebony RSW45 that is exclusive to Robert White in the UK. I will likely pair it with a Super Symmar XL 110mm.

It has only has FRONT rise and fall, & front tilt ...... Rise 65mm, Fall 25mm, centre tilt 30 + 30.

Are these movements adequate for normal arcitectural use, eg, getting the converging lines rectified in a building so that it is no longer sloping backwards? Or is that question too vague to answer?? I'm just trying to get a feel for how useful the movements specified above will be, and how much i will be to achieve with them? Many thanks.

PViapiano
21-Aug-2007, 12:28
Front rise & fall are probably the most important movements to achieve what you want, but shift is handy to have when framing your image, and for certain shots swing is very necessary when your plane of focus lies more horizontally.

My most used movements for architecture have been rise, tilt and shift...

Jack Flesher
21-Aug-2007, 12:45
When you say classic architecture, I think you are going to want swing and shift... I'd look at the 45S at least, and if you can afford it, the 45SU. Also, you might find the extra FoV of the 90XL a bit more to your liking and less money than the 110, but get the newer version 90XL where the rear lens-guard can unscrew and fit through a tech board hole.

Cheers,

Rob_5419
21-Aug-2007, 14:29
Jon -

broadly speaking, there are two schools of thought; either maximum movements for flexibility (like a monorail or technical camera) or a completely minimalist approach (like an architectural technical camera). I'm afraid your Ebony falls in between.



Are these movements adequate for normal arcitectural use, eg, getting the converging lines rectified in a building so that it is no longer sloping backwards? Or is that question too vague to answer??

Not at all. It's adequate for most applications and the only function you really need with this respect is the rise/fall movement.

The Silvestri cameras are an example of the minimalist functionality approach. The T30 I use uses rise/fall movement as the only movement, however this can take place on the vertical axis, as well as combined across the horizontal axis to give 'cross-movements'. This cross-movement simplifies the need for swing and can take a life-time to master or exhaust. Its's facility to use extreme wide-angle lenses with ease does away with the requirement for other movements. Although it's great having a monorail for back-up should a complicated architectural shot arise.

The tilt of your Ebony controls depth of field, which is nice if you're using a normal lens or need a wider aperture for any reason. For a 110mm XL lens, I wouldn't have thought it to be essential for architectural work since your building isn't going to walk away before you complete a slow shutter exposure. Then again, as Jack says, a 90mm XL makes more sense for its field of view and architectural application.

The Ebony might cover most general architectural applications, but not comprehensively. I'm happy with the minimalist approach, and find that with a Silvestri cross-movements, I never need swing. If I do, then the monorail comes out. Front swing isn't much use for perspective control imho. I find rear movements are more useful and unfortunately you won't get that flexibility for the budget RSW45...

Joanna Carter
21-Aug-2007, 15:32
If you want swing or shift, simply turn the camera on its side :cool:

Brian Ellis
21-Aug-2007, 20:13
Final question for a potential LF newbie ..... I am interested in the Ebony RSW45 that is exclusive to Robert White in the UK. I will likely pair it with a Super Symmar XL 110mm.

It has only has FRONT rise and fall, & front tilt ...... Rise 65mm, Fall 25mm, centre tilt 30 + 30.

Are these movements adequate for normal arcitectural use, eg, getting the converging lines rectified in a building so that it is no longer sloping backwards? Or is that question too vague to answer?? I'm just trying to get a feel for how useful the movements specified above will be, and how much i will be to achieve with them? Many thanks.

If the camera has no back movements it will IMHO be a poor choice for architectural work. The "sloping backwards" look you mention can be eliminated to some extent with front rise. But 65mm of front rise is just a little over half the width of 4x5 film and by itself may often not be adequate to include things like the top of a building in the photograph while also eliminating vertical convergence. To do that you'll need to aim the camera up and then tilt the back forward so that it's parallel with the building. If you have no back movements you won't be able to do that. The same is true to a lesser extent of back swing and horizontal convergence. Finally, if you're running out of lens coverage which you're likely to do more often with architectural photography than with something like landscapes back tilt and swing can sometimes be substituted for front tilt or swing and use less of the image circle.

As Joanna points out, there are ways of compensating for the lack of some movements but why deliberately make life difficult for yourself?

Leonard Evens
22-Aug-2007, 06:30
The super symmar 110 has a large image circle, with diamaeter approaching 290 mm. If my rough estimates are right, that would mean, for 4 x 5, a potential rise of between 75 and 85 mm is possible, depending on whether one were in portrait or landscape orientation. But this may be unrealistic in an actual working situation. In any case, the figures seem to indicate that the camera can't quite utilize the full rise capability of the lens, but it can come fairly close.

In my work, I occasinally find it necessary to use both rise and shift. For taking pictures from a high vantage point, such as the roof of a building, a fall of only 25 mm might be very constraining. The tilt capability would seem adequate for most architectural photography.

In some urban circumstances, where one can't get back far enough, the only practical way to photograph a tall building may be to point the camera up and use digital techniques to make verticals parallel.

In constrained circumstances, one may need to go significantly shorter than 110 mm. I agree that one should have at least a 90 mm lens and a lens in the range 65-75 mm with a large image circle would be even better for such circumstances. (In some circumstances, even that won't suffice. For example, I am trying to photograph two or three story building facades from across a street, and even my 75 mm lens can't encompass the entire facade. The only practical way I have found to do it is to take multiple photographs using a pano head and merge them digitally.)

norm the storm
12-Apr-2011, 06:50
For architecture, I'm thinkink that back tilt and swing are the most useful movements you need. To correct convergent lines, it's a must.

cjbroadbent
12-Apr-2011, 07:44
If you want swing or shift, simply turn the camera on its side :cool:
+1
Jon, I have the SW45 with an 80mmXL. I've never liked a camera better. But I also have a folding RWE45 for uncomfortable situations.
Maybe architecture is mostly uncomfortable.
However, with the SW rigid frame you can be 100% square on. Not so with the RWE45.

Nathan Potter
12-Apr-2011, 08:48
I would agree with Brian and Norm. For architectural work back tilt + front tilt is pretty vital for the correction of vertical convergence. I'd be lost without that capability along with front rise and fall. The 110 SSXL is nearly ideal for 4X5 format architecture due to its extreme sharpness and contrast. Sometime a wide coverage 90 mm is very handy, especially for interiors.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.