Old lens haul (1 of 3)

[Rider]

I recently acquired 3 old lenses that I will be experimenting with once I have them mounted in boards.

I was wondering if you can tell me anything about them.

The first one is mounted in a shutter. The shutter is Baush & Lomb, I think. It's got two pistons, one on each side of the lens, and the speeds are 1/100, 1/50, 1/25, 1/5, 1/2, 1, B and T. The 1/100 speed seems to work pretty well; the others stick.

On the barrel, I can make out the letters Serie III D agor. It's 180mm. The f-stops are 6.8 through 64. The diaphragm is not completely smooth, but it works.

The glass is pretty clean on the outside, but there is a lot of dust on the inside.

Besides the experimental value, is this lens worth repair / CLA? What is the lens design? How old is it (it does refer to a Jan 91 patent, but I'm not sure whether this is for the lens or the shutter).

[Ole Tjugen]

That's easy - it's an early Goerz Dagor.
The design is Dagor, 6 elements in two groups, symmetrical. The Jan 91 patent is the shutter; the Goerz Doppel-Anastigmat Serie III (later called D.A.G.O.R for Doppel-Anastigmat GOeRz) was patented in 1893.

[Rider]

Here is a snapshot of the lens (taken real close with my 120 mm Nikon macro :)).

What kind of shutter is that? Do you think the lens/shutter are worth restoring, or should I just experiment with them as they are?

[Ernest Purdum]

Many people are fond of Dagor lenses. Yours is certainly worth getting the shutter working. Since it operates on 1/100th, the problem seems to be only a sticky piston, easily corrected just by cleaning.

You are right that the shutter is a Bausch & Lomb, a "Unicum" I think.

[Toyon]

I haven't seen a troll in a long time.

[Uusilehto]

I haven't seen a troll in a long time.

Who exactly are you referring to with that?
While the original poster's question was something he could've easily found out with a little bit of Googling, he didn't do anything wrong as far as I'm concerned.

[Rider]

Toyon--I haven't the foggiest idea what you are talking about. In fact, I'm a little taken aback by your post.

Ernest, you are absolutely right, it does say Unicum on the front. I did not think to connect that with the shutter, but a quick google search confirms that this is in fact a B&L Unicum shutter!

I'll have to mount it in a 4" lensboard (currently, it's in a 3.5" lens board--what camera could that be for?) and take a few pictures. Then I'll decide whether to have both the lens and shutter cleaned or just the shutter. (I assume the contrast will be reduced by the lack of coating and by all the dust on the inside.)

Btw, what kind of remote release do I use with this? I don't think the standard screw-in release works.

Stay tuned for the other two lenses!

[Toyon]

Rider, you've been a member since 2006, you know your way around a Nikkor macro 120 AM, but haven't heard of a Dagor? It's just not credible. All in good fun though.

[Jim Galli]

To release the shutter you need a piece of tubing and a bulb on the piston on the left side. If everything else is freed up and working OK, take the sleeve off the piston on the right and clean all the surfaces. This one gets set at different distances dependent on what speed is set. It has to displace the air inside before the shutter can close. Look through the lens at the sun with all the blades closed. Some of these early shutters don't stop all the light. They did however turn whatever light was getting through to red so it didn't effect the blue sensitive film. It could effect our pan films now though.

[Rider]

That's easy - it's an early Goerz Dagor.
The design is Dagor, 6 elements in two groups, symmetrical. The Jan 91 patent is the shutter; the Goerz Doppel-Anastigmat Serie III (later called D.A.G.O.R for Doppel-Anastigmat GOeRz) was patented in 1893.

Givent that both the acronym "DAGOR" and the designation "Serie III" are used, does that tell you anything more about the vintage of this lens?

[Donald Qualls]

Pneumatic shutters were, AFAIK, pretty much gone by the 1920s, possibly before WWI. That should narrow it down a bit...

[Uusilehto]

Pneumatic shutters were, AFAIK, pretty much gone by the 1920s, possibly before WWI. That should narrow it down a bit...

Except that they weren't. The Compound shutter type was still widely used for sizes of Copal #3 and above as late as in the mid-70's.

EDIT: Although, yes, the Unicum (double-piston) type shutters were pretty much dead before WWII.

[Frank R]

I have a double piston B&L shutter with a Rapid Rectilinear lens on my Poco #15.

I think watching the shutter's action as you squeeze the bulb has to be one of the coolest things in photography.

[Gene McCluney]

That shutter on your lens that you show in the photographs is a two-bladed shutter, very simple in design. the two blades pivot sideways to open.

[Rider]

To release the shutter you need a piece of tubing and a bulb on the piston on the left side. If everything else is freed up and working OK, take the sleeve off the piston on the right and clean all the surfaces. This one gets set at different distances dependent on what speed is set. It has to displace the air inside before the shutter can close. Look through the lens at the sun with all the blades closed. Some of these early shutters don't stop all the light. They did however turn whatever light was getting through to red so it didn't effect the blue sensitive film. It could effect our pan films now though.

I've been releasing the shutter by presssing a little lever. Can you tell me what kind of tubing and bulb are involved?

It is not obvious to me how to take apart (and put back) the piston on the right to clean.

I will definitely hold it up to the sun, the next time I see him.

[Gene McCluney]

There are vendors on the auction site that sell new tubing and bulbs, however you can use surgical tubing or vacuum tubing designed for automobile applications. The squeeze bulb has a fitting for the tubing at one end, and a hole at the other end that you cover with your thumb when you squeeze to push air thru the tube into the piston on the lens. The piston rises and trips the shutter lever. You release the bulb and remove your thumb from the hole on the bulb to allow the pressure to be released and the piston on the camera comes back to rest under spring pressure.

On your lens, you have to "cock" or reset the shutter after each shot.

[Bernard Kaye]

Your 3 1/2 inch or 90mm. lensboard: Is it metal, (aluminum), is it square(3 1/2 x 3 1/2 inches) or 90 x 90 mm.? If yes, it may be for my Zeiss Universal Juwel. If it is flat on one side (front), with two tracks or slits running along two opposing sides about 3 to 4 mm. from edges (back), you and I are in business. It is right vintage for my camera. The one lens board I have is black on both sides.
Even without the slits, if it is square and metal, please contact me. Bernie eviebob@tx.rr.com

[Rider]

Bernard--the lens boards are nothing special and are made of wood, so probably not what you're looking for. I'll keep my eyes open though.

[JOSEPH ANDERSON]

I have a similar sutter to your B&L. But,mine is a wollensak housing a 12" velostigmat with
the adjustable front cell with good glass. But it will only fire at one speed all the time
and B and T some of the time. I've been told these pneumatic sutters are not hard to fix.There no complex gearing. However, it's marked Pat-1900 to 1901 and parts may
be an issue. If it were any other sutter I would just dump it. But this sutter and I shear
a history going back to 1949 and my wife also shears a history with it back to 1951.
Obviously I didn't own it then, or even know my wife. It belonged to a pony photographer
who took our pictures two years apart as we sat on his pony. Some 30 years later this
very same lens, camera and tripod used to take our pictuers as kids fell into my hands,
after an odd series of events and chance meetings. I also have all his other photo equipment. Everything at no cost. Most of it very old,but very useable. But that's
another story.I guess I'll contact S.K. Crimes or Flutot's. They may know someone
specializing in very old sutters.
I would have your sutter fixed if you could. Your lens is an oldie,but a realy good
oldie.
Good luck Joe A

[Rider]

Flutot fixed this lens, and now it works beautifully!