Photography or the Thought of Photography [Archive]

scrichton

2-Jun-2007, 17:29

I don't collect, I'm just interested. I'd rather buy and try it for a while, although for the last few months with an excessive disposable income meant the buying was very fast. Things like buying a bronica to replace the hasselblad that was in for repair for 2 weeks. Also my large format stuff was MPP -> Sinar to lots of lenses and bellows. More to try stuff once more. Although the going out taking pictures is still an area of well what do I take?

I feel I benefit myself and others by getting something and if it works I praise it and keep it otherwise I sell it on with an honest opinion. Like musicianship there are tools which are specific to certain things, but to know that you need to try them. I have nowhere to hire stuff so I'd rather do this.

Vaughn

2-Jun-2007, 18:53

Jack of all cameras...owner of many, master of none.

Lots of exceptions, of course.

Vaughn

Colin Robertson

3-Jun-2007, 01:46

There are lots of 'issues' here. Cameras are tools, and should be used. I don't think I've ever bought a camera just to own it- they're always to use.
However- as we've all noticed, film camera manufacture is in decline. So, for 35mm work I use Minolta XD7's, and recently I did buy a spare body just to stash as an emergency fall back. Roll film I use C330's- they're great, but now getting old, so I'm currently planning to re-equip with something newer 'just in case'. I get scared that in a couple of years some vital piece of kit will fail and I'll have little (or no) choice in how to replace it. Likely I'll get RB67's as they're less battery dependant.
In LF I think there is less pressure to stock-pile gear as so much of it seems amenable to fixing-up, unlike the smaller formats. It's always reassuring on this forum to see great photos made with really old kit which is still going strong.

Dick Hilker

3-Jun-2007, 08:43

From some forums, I get the impression that there are two kinds of photographers -- those who use the gear to make pictures and those who use photography as an excuse to buy and play with its equipment. I guess computer people are also in those same broad categories and, of course, many of us are photography and computer people. Figures!

scrichton

3-Jun-2007, 09:18

two kinds of photographers -- those who use the gear to make pictures and those who use photography as an excuse to buy and play with its equipment

I take a lot of pictures, plus I like the tools. How many farmers do you know who don't genuinely get excited over ploughs or tractors? Having a healthy interest in finding the best tools is not a bad thing is it, I found the best shoes for walking in after buying many other pairs does that mean I am a detriment to the professional walker's integrity?

I bought my voigtlander bessa 3a as I went from yashica electro -> kiev -> voigtlander. Through this process I have found a camera that I raise to my eye without thought for daily use. I kept the previous cameras that I like. The kiev is a beautiful machine now I have fully repaired it, the yashica I gave to a friend who is now starting down that chain of thinking.

I think in large format there is just not a saturation of lenses bodies etc, also the modularity of the systems means that the digital aspect can be addressed. Imagine how many people would hold onto gear if they ever brought out a proper digital CCD filmplane insert for 35mm?

My question in the thread was to see if like myself people have so many tools it is hard to quantify a situation to take the best thing? Look at a picture of David Burnett on the Kerry campaign trail or a vietnam photojournalist and the picture is that of a walking camera shop. I like using all my gear but find it hard to use all of it at the same time. Anyone else find the constant waves of I'll use this then this then this... frustrating?

Ash

3-Jun-2007, 09:43

If you want it, and you can afford it, get it.

There's so much hysteria on RFF over "gearheads" but to be fair if you're stupid enough to spend more time buying gear than using it, that's your call.

I'm the same as a few others. The important thing is using the equipment.

At the same time, why not try everything?

It's like saying "you only need one drink, so stick to the water". Maybe I want cola, maybe I want milkshake, or fruit juice, or a frapuccino. I may as well stock up on whatever i want, just for when I fancy it.

I can't afford to keep every camera I might chance upon, so only the ones I'll use are kept. That's why it took about 5 or so 35mm cameras before I got a Leica M2. I wanted to try every different one, and then I sold the few I had left to fund a much bigger purchase. Now the money has dried out, I'm sticking to using a good camera. At least I know I'm not missing out with the other options.

Same goes for LF. I can see what a monorail is like, a press camera, a field camera. Now I wanna try a Razzle, see if that will meet my love of RF focusing and hand-holdable cameras, with the fun of LF negs.

Still, it's all down to different strokes. Some equipment is better for different things. I haven't really doubled up on gear, everything serves a different purpose.

roteague

3-Jun-2007, 10:01

I guess we all like buying gear to some extent. I have the 4x5 for all my serious work, a Nikon F5 for a walking around camera and a digi toy for non-serious, playing.

Los

3-Jun-2007, 11:35

i have a similar issue as scrichton, but my problem comes from not using the camera i prefer as much as the others. i'd prefer to use the 4x5 for everything, but the 135 is always available in the bag for surprise opportunities, the 67 camera might not be the best choice for me around strangers but works with friends and family, and the digi p+s seems to get all the work with posting gear for sale or looking for a home for feral kittens. there is also the issue of content for me. is the subject something i want to print and put in the album or on the wall? if the answer is no, i usually do not reach for the 4x5...the one i'd rather use.

Dick Hilker

3-Jun-2007, 12:47

As an amateur, my choice of gear isn't dictated by the requirements of the job, so there's the temptation to try yet another camera or lens to see if that will improve my pictures. After having accumulated a couple of 35mm cameras, two bodies and a bunch of gear for medium format, a Wista 45RF and most recently a digital p&s, I can understand the problem of selecting the right camera for any particular application. Usually, the choice is fairly obvious, based on the subject or location. But, as I set off on a field trip, I most often take just about everything, "just in case" and end up using the silly little digital because it was so tempting to fire away at anything that looked at all promising, only hauling out the heavy artillery for the "sure thing" shots, or when the quality of the planned picture was of enough importance to take the time and spend the money on film and processing.

Did buying more gear make me a better photographer? No, but it's made it harder for me to blame lack of equipment for not doing as well as I'd like and convinced me that the most important thing is to get out there with whatever you have and make pictures. I don't mean by that to just take the digital approach and rapid-fire at everything, but to use whatever camera you have to hone your skills and thereby improve your output, rather than assuming that the next lens will be able to transform your work from where it is to where yhou want it to be.

r.e.

3-Jun-2007, 13:14

For casual photography, I take one camera and one or two lenses and look around for opportunities that work with the gear.

For example, a couple of weeks ago I was travelling in Connecticut and brought along a Leica M3 and 90mm lens. On the deck of the ferry between Connecticut and Long Island, I took the attached photograph. Obviously, the photo could not have been made with my view camera. If I'd had my Mamiya 7, which can't frame this closely, I would have taken a completely different photograph of my subject, if any at all. But it was just right for a Leica M3 and 90mm lens from just beyond the minimum focus distance (3 feet/1 meter). I'm just attaching this to make a point about working with what you've got, not claiming that it is a work of art, although the dog's owner, with whom I was travelling, was pleased as punch :)

The same applies to a number of other photographs taken on this trip. If I did a series in very low light, it was because I was using a relatively fast lens. If I had instead taken my Mamiya (for which my lenses are f4 and f4.5), or for that matter my view camera, I just would have taken different pictures.

Speaking only for myself, this approach makes more sense than lugging around 20-25 pounds worth of camera gear and/or fretting about whether I'm bringing the right gear.

J Peterson

5-Jun-2007, 07:49

I have a dirty confession to make.

i spend hours, days, too many months of my life scouring the pages of ebay looking for old polaroid cameras, shitty old lenses and cheap film.

I think it could be actually classified as an addiction. Know where I can score?

ljb0904

5-Jun-2007, 09:30

When I go hiking, I take my 4x5. Sometimes I take my 20D with one lens as well. That's it.

I want to make photographs. If others just want to have equipment, so be it, and more power to them. For some it's coke bottles, others guitars (I have 5 of those, can't play worth a damn), others currency. Me, I collect memories and feelings on 4x5 transparancy.

Rakesh Malik

5-Jun-2007, 10:18

When I go hiking, I take my 4x5. Sometimes I take my 20D with one lens as well. That's it.

Same here... though when I know I won't have time to stop and set up a shot, I leave the 4x5 at home... but when I want to photograph, it's my first choice, even though my 4x5 kit weighs in at 40 pounds + water and food.

cobalt

5-Jun-2007, 16:59

cobalt

5-Jun-2007, 17:05

Hi.
I am a reformed gear-aholic of sorts. But I bought several different cameras in several formats for a reason: to learn. I know: how to shoot and process digital capture, how to shoot 35mm, 645, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9, 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10 film and print digitally as well as chemically, how to shoot film, print digitally on transparency film and contact print and/or enlarge, and how to shoot film, scan and print digitally.
WHEW!

After all the experimenting, I have decided that I don't want to shoot (99% of the time) without obtaining the quality I achieve using rather large bits of (b/w) film. Therefore, I recently sold my MF film scanner, My last digital camera (fuji S5--best I've owned, and I've owned many.), and all 35mm gear save for a Yashica Electro (amazing fat little lens!).

If I have the time to set up and shoot at leisure, I prefer 8x10 and 5x7.

After various and sundry Hasselblads, Pentaxes, Mamiya TLRs, Rb/z67s Nikons (film and digital), the camera I carry around nearly everywhere I go is a Fuji gw690, and I have another on the way.

The camera is simple, will accomodate NO batteries, has a ridiculously sharp lens, and can potentially double as an anti-personnel device if needed. Oh, and the 6x9 negatives yield a tonality that approaches 4x5 film. I generally do not use a meter, and find I am becoming a better photographer for it.

I use two lenses for 8x10, an Eastman Ektar and a Schneider Symmar. Might let go of the Ektar (14 inch) soon, but NEVER the Symmar. Anything I can't do (in 8x10) with these, I don't need to do.

I am considering letting go of my other Ektars: 127, 203, 152, because I rarely shoot 4x5 any longer. But my 240mm Caltar (Rodenstock) will be wrested from my cold, dead hands--it is just too sharp and contrasty to give up, and covers 5x7 wonderfully.

I find that walking around with the Fuji (about 43mm in 35mm terms), has improved my composition. I am forced to learn how to see with that perspective. I am becoming a better photographer because of it. Same with the Schneider in 8x10.

If I need/lust over more gear, it will be in the form of yet a third Fuji...same format...same lens.

John Kasaian

5-Jun-2007, 17:20

Thinking about photography often leads to modifications and aquisitions.

I got this idea for some night photography, which lead to an ebay $40 AeroEktar roosting in my garage.

I got another idea for a ULF pinhole and now a wine barrel awaits my attention.

I got the bug to shoot LF aerials and now I have a room full of aerial cameras and processors left over from WW2 and earlier, plus part of a freezer dedicated to 9-1/2" roll film (did I mention the sprained back I got for free while strong arming a K-17?)

Yeah, its an illness.

J Peterson

6-Jun-2007, 02:39

But why should experiementation ever be considered a hinderence? Sure there come a point where hunting for gear overtakes the need to take pictures, or becomes an excuse to busy yourself not to take pictures...BUT...photography for me is all about experimentation.

If you really wanna go hiking with one camera and take the same pictures all the time then that's cool (and i totally understand if that is your bag), but IMO experiementing with every different thing you can think of or muster can only good. For me it's about spice and variety. Trying a bit of everything and seeing what I like. The downside of it is the "thrill of the hunt" for that elusive bit of junk that may just change the way you look at photography for good.

John, this is THE best quote I've heard in a long time! "Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire"---GKC

Rakesh Malik

6-Jun-2007, 07:13

If you really wanna go hiking with one camera and take the same pictures all the time then that's cool
[/B]

So you're saying that in order to take different pictures, you have to change cameras?

scrichton

6-Jun-2007, 07:32

I got this idea for some night photography, which lead to an ebay $40 AeroEktar roosting in my garage.

Hmmm seems like my idea for a poorman's xpan. I now have 1 nimslo sans film gate and most of the dividers removed. Along with one burnt out dremel. Which the sum total comes to an expensive doorstop. Hmm I seem to have a few too many doorstops and not enough doors.

Yeah, its an illness.

John not an illness, just something to occupy time with. I have to admit my peers spend their money on alcohol and boats .. pets (getting to about the right age for that to start) Plus the rest are doing the kid thing. I like cameras I like how they operate, they genuinely interest me. Since standing in physics watching a beam split I knew I was hooked on light. Plus I was hooked on how to capture it.

artedetimo

6-Jun-2007, 13:49

None of my photo teachers are gear heads, though they all are experts on some of it.

I think there is a point about the two types of people, often to describe computer people or techphiles. I don't think they are mutually exclusive, though. You can be into gear and not the photography or vise versa or both. Though it seems obvious the ones who make it in photography or make good photographs are the ones into photography not just the gear.

I have some cameras (Pentax, Canon film and digital, Mamya, Wista, and Holga) and use them all for differnt projects at different times for the most part. They provide different shooting experiences and printing options. I tend to focus on gear that gives me some feature that another doesn't. Weight, size, speed, output being the main quantifiers. A tool for a job (in the project sense).

I tend to think of the ouput first before I decide on which gear I use. If nothing I own can get the results/print I want then I start looking for something that can. Right now I am in the process of designing a 16x20 field camera. I don't have $10K to buy one but I have a project in mind that idealy needs large negatives, so I started on a gear project with a photo project in mind for later. Could I do with something else, sure, but if there is a better tool available then I say seek it out. And if there isn't maybe it should be made or resurrected.

I think I am collector *Cough-packrat* in general of all sorts of things. I have 2 computers lying on my floor waiting to be made useful as I type. I use most of the stuff I collect though, and I get rid of what I don't. I think its part of being creative for me. I develop ideas and then collect the things/tools I need to realize the idea over the course of months or years. I would say that I don't add anything to my collections for the sake of just collecting. I have a specific purpose in mind when I go hunting for something.

scrichton

6-Jun-2007, 18:22

So you're saying that in order to take different pictures, you have to change cameras?

I think not 100% but in many cases yes. Henri Cartier Bresson used a leica with a 50mm all the time, but only normally in his reportage work. Others he admits the tools lend themsleves to a very different requirement.

For instance 2 weeks ago I went kayaking up the Great Glen in scotland. I felt perplexed what to take. I ended up on an MPP with a 6x12 back and a Contax T2. The T2 got all the pictures of us acually on the water with the scenery the Field Camera was just too much to wrestle in and out of a Drybag, However theoretically it should have been great for sweeping vistas. I know now I should have taken my hasselblad and forgone the rest.

That is the initial point I was trying to make with this thread. That if there is a descision to make like this, does anyone find it hard? Not should collectors be persecuted or do you have to feel guilty for spending money you earned on a passion. Simply if you have more than one variable be it colour Vs. B&W does anyone else here find it highly frustrating that there are many times where in retrospect you chose the wrong one as it is impossible to allow for all at all times.

Oh and for the people who only have ever had one camera used the same film and lens, developer etc ... If this was found without ever trying anything else how can your work mature if you never tried something to see if it detriments or improves how things go?

Jim Galli

6-Jun-2007, 20:57

Guilty....maybe. I must admit that Ebay changed things a LOT for me. I live in a town where a speed graphic would be considered a museum piece. When I discovered that with a computer and ebay there were 40,000,000 other people out there with interesting stuff to buy and sell, well it just made it easier to explore what would have otherwise been only things read about in books. And why not? If a piece lays about un-used (like the 14X17 Bausch & Lomb tessar upstairs....now why did I buy that??) you can simply put it back on ebay and send it on to it's next owner who likely will use it.

I've got a lot of stuff. A LOT! No, I can't use it all at the same time, but I can honestly say I've used and explored every single piece I have (except 3 lenses bought in the last month that just haven't gotten their turns at the front of the camera yet for lack of time. But they WILL get used. (a Ross f3.5 Petzval of about 12" focus, a similar Bausch & Lomb Petzval of similar aperture and focal length that I'll likely sell, and a Voigtlander Euryscop Serie II Portrait #6 that I'm quite positive is in for the long haul in Tonopah.)

Have I crossed over some line that means I'm a collector? Look at my web pages and then tell me. I'm just a guy having a great time trying out just about everything anybody's ever heard of.

Along the way, I occasionally make a worthwhile picture or two.

r.e.

6-Jun-2007, 21:04

So you're saying that in order to take different pictures, you have to change cameras?

Without a doubt, or you just adjust to what you have. Works fine, either way.

Ash

7-Jun-2007, 00:57

Without a doubt, or you just adjust to what you have. Works fine, either way.

I kinda have to agree to an extent.

I was using a Minolta SLR through a few months of college and got bored to death of photo's because they all looked and felt the same. Plasticky and typical, just like the camera.

I started using rangefinders and I had a TOTALLY different view of photo's, and how to take them. My photo's changed with the camera.

I look at scenes differently depending on whether I have a Rolleicord TLR, a Zeiss Nettar 515 MF 6x4.5 folder, a Leica M2, or one of the large format cameras.

I react differently depending on what's in my hands. So yes, you can say you need different gear. At the same time I LOVE using a Rolleicord and a Leica M2 as my kit of choice for portraits (one for staged, one for more candid) and it works great and the photo's always have something unique in them.

scrichton

7-Jun-2007, 03:08

Hi Ash,

I must admit rangefinders let me work as I think a lot more than before.

Plus a certain camera gives a certain look.

The examples here are the same subject same day 2 totally different cameras.

First off ... Voigtlander Brilliant 1924. This camera was my grandfathers from when he was stationed in egypt (well he got it before the war for documenting his life I imagine) This oozes vintage haze and the square format is much more fun. I can compose square instantly no thought at all.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/159/384638292_73444c9d8c.jpg

The second same day same light ... Contax T2 compact. This has the signature sonnar contrast, but non-square and totally different feel. These were literally 2 mins apart. That day it just was lucky I had put both in. This camera just feels like you should grab a shot, not really spend your time composing or thinking too much.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/139/384633236_317db9f6f4.jpg

Large format ... 1 shot at a time and slow. Different horses different courses :D

Rakesh Malik

7-Jun-2007, 08:06

Oh and for the people who only have ever had one camera used the same film and lens, developer etc ... If this was found without ever trying anything else how can your work mature if you never tried something to see if it detriments or improves how things go?

While I agree that trying new things helps one grow, I don't agree that you need a new camera to do that -- though every camera does have its limitations, like for example most current large format cameras aren't exactly ideal for, say, shooting a tennis match ;)

However, I think that even if you don't change equipment, you can still change the types of pictures you take with it, by training yourself to see differently.

Of course, changing equipment can FORCE you to try different things, which might be the only way for some people to make themselves see differently... but I'm finding that I do better by cutting down on my kits, and optimizing for the trip; when I plan on hiking with the knowledge that I won't be able to stop everywhere, I won't take the 4x5 because I know I won't be able to use it, even though I'll wish I had it with me when I find the right spot.

scrichton

7-Jun-2007, 09:02

rakesh your fractals are beautiful, what software do you use? I have been quite addicted to the chaosscope, but it not so good for certain formulas

seawolf66

7-Jun-2007, 09:16

Scrichton: to this I say AMEN:
[John not an illness, just something to occupy time with. I have to admit my peers spend their money on alcohol and boats .. pets (getting to about the right age for that to start) Plus the rest are doing the kid thing. I like cameras I like how they operate, they genuinely interest me. Since standing in physics watching a beam split I knew I was hooked on light. Plus I was hooked on how to capture it.]

I believe its all there for all of us, for every camera and lens record time in a different way as you have deminstrated , and there lies the fun for me:
although I am not a heavy collector but do have few , all of which would not add up more than 10 cameras:
so enjoy your self with your thing that makes you happy and if It does not harm anyone at all, More power to you\\\Lauren

Rakesh Malik

7-Jun-2007, 09:47

rakesh your fractals are beautiful, what software do you use? I have been quite addicted to the chaosscope, but it not so good for certain formulas

Thanks! I used Apophysis (http://www.apophysis.org/).

scrichton

7-Jun-2007, 16:52

argh no mac version :( Oh well looks like I'll be spending a few night with the source code re-compiling :eek: Looks worth it though.

J Peterson

8-Jun-2007, 05:39

So you're saying that in order to take different pictures, you have to change cameras?

Yes & No. At the end of the day though the least important thing in photography is the camera. The most important thing with an image is the image. The message. That's what ultimately makes a photo different. But different cameras give you different ways of shooting. Different films give you a different look. Different lenses give you a completely different look from the other. That can be inspiring. THat can lead you down another path of enjoyment. Sure you change that in photoshop but...I don't like it.

Your pictures are always going to be YOUR pictures. Your style is always going to be your style, and I don't think it changes that much over the years. Refine, yes. change, to a degree - but only as you get more in touch of your self as an artist. You become more you.

It's different tools for different things.

I will use either of these for a different look, a different feel and a different inspiration.

35mm film, 35mm digital, polaroid (sx70, packfilm cameras, bigshot, home made there's differences in each), Holga, Diana, Pinhole, M1 Leica, medium format film (we all know the differences in hass and rz, not only in the look but also in the act of shooting), medium format digital, and of corse my preference LF.

Each one makes a different result, each one feels different to use. There's a big diff in handholding a 110 polaroid conversion and putting a Deardorff on a fucking great big Tripod....ya know?

Changing your tool is liberating your creativity.

Rakesh Malik

8-Jun-2007, 07:30

argh no mac version :( Oh well looks like I'll be spending a few night with the source code re-compiling :eek: Looks worth it though.

If you have Parallels or something like that, you might not have to recompile it. :)

I think there were some folks working on a mac port at one point, but I haven't been keeping up with news on that front.

Rakesh Malik

8-Jun-2007, 07:33

Changing your tool is liberating your creativity.

I'm pretty much on the fence on this sone, because I know a few very good photographer who have only one camera. Even most of the ones who have more than one camera only have one format, though. It seems like us multi-format folks are the oddballs ;)

I do, however, have more than one camera... but I like to challenge myself by trying different types of shots with the same camera.

tombob

8-Jun-2007, 16:08

i now have a good "collection fo cameras" but i use them all therfroe i am a photgrapher not a collector, the only camera i dont use it the bellows kodak viewfinder i bought for a £1 but i cant get the other 620 real, i've also had 2 rangefinder 35mm die on me recently at uni. overall i think i have

3 slr
1 tlr
3 rangefinder (1 works)
1 35mm viewfinder
1 6x7 620 viewfinder
1 5x4
1 digi
3 polaroid
1 6x6 pinhole

i cant think of any others, i sometimes use my dads contax G2 as well