More Ballhead

[Kermit Burroughs]

So, I think I want a ball head. I've read all the threads here I could find. All I would like to me sure of is that any of the mid-weight type (Markins M10, RRS BH40, Kirk BH3) will be ok with my 6lbish wood field. Shooting landscape. Spec wise, should be fine. I know bigger would be better, but I would like to put that money elsewhere if I can (I need a 90mm).

Thanks

[Eric James]

Also consider: http://acratech.net/

I have a Kirk BH3 and it is marginally adequate with my Ebony RW45E.

[Greg Lockrey]

You would really want the RSS BH 55 too.

[Kermit Burroughs]

Well, I know I want the 55, but would the 40 be ok? I mean, when you look at price, I can get the bigger Kirk for the price of the 40. That might be the thing to do, I just like the way the RRS seems to operate better.
Likewise, I don't really want to buy something only to discover it doesn't do what I need.

[naturephoto1]

I definitely suggest that you consider the Markins M10 or the M20. Also, the M10 and the M20 are not that much different in their cost.

You indicate that you have read the threads here. If you have not read the one that is about the Markins Emille, Q3 read through the thread, but for the weight of the camera you are suggesting I would not consider the Q3, but read what is mentioned about the other Markins heads:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=23700

Hope this helps.

Rich

[Greg Lockrey]

Well, I know I want the 55, but would the 40 be ok? I mean, when you look at price, I can get the bigger Kirk for the price of the 40. That might be the thing to do, I just like the way the RRS seems to operate better.
Likewise, I don't really want to buy something only to discover it doesn't do what I need.

I was hesident about the extra bucks for the 55 for my Leica with Visioflex and extesion bellows and an occasional Graphlex use. Once I had in my hand, all doubts were gone. It's worth every penny. It is incredibly smooth and very adjustable and locks tight with ease. It will hold a tank! The size is very accomodating too.

[Rakesh Malik]

I second that part... the BH55 is gorgeous. And smooth. And when you lock it, your camera is locked as if it were welded down.

[Greg Lockrey]

I second that part... the BH55 is gorgeous. And smooth. And when you lock it, your camera is locked as if it were welded down.

And there is no slop in it at all.

[naturephoto1]

And there is no slop in it at all.

I can say the same about my Markins M20. It is much smaller and lighter than my Arca B1. I like the Markins better; it easily supports my Linhof Technikardan 45S in any position. It locks the camera down like a vice and is very smooth in adjustment and panning.

Rich

[Ted Harris]

Not knocking any of the heads mentioned but you have left out a whole raft of excellent heads ... you might want to take a look at the Foba Superball Mini, Acratech, Graf Studio Ball and Novoflex Classic 3 to name a few. I use a Foba and I much prefer the positive way it works ot any of the Arca look alikes, I have also just ordered a Novoflex Classic 3; when I saw it at a show last year both it and the the Novoflex QR system totally wonme over as the solidest and most versitle ball head system out there.

[Doug Dolde]

As a counterpoint, I really didn't like the RRS BH-55 and sold it off. I much prefer the Arca Swiss B-1.

[Kermit Burroughs]

I appreciate all the opinions. For me, the obvious problem is I can't touch any of them. Sure I can order and return, but that's a hassle. To be honest, I like the RRS looks the best. At this price point, they dang well all should work perfect!
The issue is, size. If I can't get by with the mid-sized balls, the Kirk seems to stand out as the value leader, which strangely bothers me.
Oh, I guess I should have said this will go on a too light set of legs, the old 1228. I have ditched the column I don't use. I suppose the larger heads would still be ok on these legs.

So, will the mid-weight heads work, or should I just suck it up and buy the heavier.

[naturephoto1]

Kermit,

My Markins M20 with the Kirk QR (at the time I prefered the Kirk, the new Markins Clamps are improved) only weighs about 20.4oz. The Markins M10 weighs about 16oz. You may wish to read this review from Nikonians if you have not:

http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/non-nikon_articles/markins/index.html

Rich

[Kermit Burroughs]

Rich - The question is, 10 or 20? Clearly the 20 would, but will the 10 support a 6lb camera plus lens, plus film? I want to save money, but I don't want to cheap out. Know what I mean?

[naturephoto1]

Hi Kermit,

I have not used the M10. From what I have read and been told via e-mail from Markins America, the M10 would be enough to support as an example my 7 1/2lb Linhof Technikardan 45S. The M20 would be smoother in operation including the panning than the M10. The M10 is supposed to be able to support 88lbs as I recall and the M20 can support 99lbs. They both have amazing holding power for their size and weight. The M20 is not really that large, substantially smaller than the Arca Swiss B1. The M10 is quite a bit smaller than the M20.

I have included the attachment so you can get a better idea of the size comparison of the 3 Markins heads; but for your needs, I would recommend the larger 2. I have the smaller Emille Q3 for long hikes and backpacking with my Toho (2lb 12oz) and lenses up to the Nikon 500T ED or the Fuji 450C with extension.

Rich

[Songyun]

By the way, what is the official weight of Arca B1？

[Greg Lockrey]

Kermit,
There were very good choice suggestions made here. It would be more what you like fuctionally and asthetically for you in the final decision. It is difficult to make such choices without putting one in your hands. The main thing is to get one that will be more than what you think you need. If you like the 40, get the 55 etc. you'll be glad you did in the long run. I will say I like my RRS-55 which I have has both the pan on the base and at the head. Probably more than I really need but if I do, there it is. One thing about the RRS is that it seems to be designed with the left hand doing the main operations in mind. If you absolutley have to use your right hand to fine tune your adjustments, you may not like it. Took me about an hour to get used to that. Hey, I can keep my right hand on the camera and left to operate the control. :) Just my 2c.

[naturephoto1]

By the way, what is the official weight of Arca B1？

I am not sure if this is the official weight, but the Nikonians article lists the Arca Swiss B1 weight at 772g (27.2oz).

Rich

[Eric James]

This is a halfway decent ballhead thread, but when I first reread the title I wondered if it belonged in the lounge.

I really think that you should get the Arcatech V2, any then tell us what you think. These are well-crafted ballheads, I think. When their original ballhead was introduced I tried it for a week (the pan mechanism was impossible to lock tight). Overall I was impressed with it's design and fabrication - and the customer service was good (but I sent it back because the panning platform wouldn't lock down tight - it might have been a sample defect).

Other complaints that you will read about their original ballhead suggests that the post bends too much. I'm sure that in a lot of applications the stiffness of the post is crutial to a good shot (remember this isn't in the lounge). My point is, many of us would be interested to know just how stiff the post is on the newer Acratech V2, and whether or not the panning platform will lock down tight. Please let us know what you think after you've tried it out:)

[Kermit Burroughs]

Eric, no problem. I'm new to the forum, so I'm guessing that I missed the thread where you submit the invoice for test gear? :-)
The Acratech, I just don't know. I stared at the pictures for awhile, and its just odd. Cool for sure.
And Greg, likely you make the point I'm trying to avoid. I *should* overbuy. I have tried tiny ballheads in the past and all to well remember trying to wrench down the bolt to get it to hold. I don't want that worry.

Ok, so why is the RRS so much more expensive? The Markins doesn't change price much between sizes. Kirk and RRS do. On the larger heads,the Markins and Kirk are similar, price wise.
>sigh<

[Kermit Burroughs]

And now to confuse myself even more, I see Arca-Swiss has the Z1 with the bicycle wheel lever as well.

[David Rees]

FWIW, I use an Acratech Ultimate (V1) ball head on my Gitzo G1228 legs, and find it an excellent combination with my Wista DX, and Ebony 45SU. I also use the same ballhead on my G1348, and a Graf Studioball on my G1548 legs (supplied by Eric -- thanks!).

The Acratech is a fine head, with a couple of idiosyncrasies, which I am happy to live with. I find it eminently usable, and on the G1228, makes an unbeatable long-distance hiking or travel rig.

One warning, though -- there is something to be said for a weighty tripod combo. I was out photographing yesterday, on the side of a hill, with a Walker Titan XL 5x4 + 210mm f5.6, balanced on my Gitzo G1348 + Acratech. For extra stability, a camera bag with 6 other lenses, filters, etc (several kilos at least), was hanging from the hook under the tripod. I had turned to put a film holder into another bag behind me, when a sudden (and very powerful) gust of wind hit, and the tripod blew over, and rolled down the hill. The Walker is now in a seriously sad state, and is being sent off to be looked at by Mike Walker. If I'd been using my G1548 + Graf, I am confident this would not have happened; it is clearly possible to have a tripod that is too light, even with ballast attached!

[Ron Marshall]

I'm very happy with my Acratech Ultimate, solid, light, very smooth, well made. Their customer service (for an extra quick-release plate) is great.

[Kermit Burroughs]

David - I am a tad worried about the weight issue. I can't really afford to buy everything new for one trip tho, so I figure I'll just be careful. If I really end up doing more of this, perhaps I'd get some new legs to go with the head and keep the lighter legs for the Mamiya 7.
Anyway, I appreciate the info.

[naturephoto1]

Hi Kermit,

If you have the hook for bottom of the 1228 and a line attached to sufficient weight resting on the ground (do not suspend it), in most instances you should have enough mass (weight) to keep the tripod in place (I would suggest to try to have at least 10 or 20 lbs of added mass and possibly 30 lbs). Just use some common sense and keep your wits about you to keep an eye on the tripod and camera. I have an original 1228, but now I have substituted a Gitzo 1257LVL as my backpacking and long hiking tripod. For nearer the vehicle I have my 13XX series tripod which weighs more especially when I have the Gitzo leveling 1321 base attached. Don't forget, that a view or field camera will act like a box kite in wind due to the bellows regardless of the size and weight of the tripod and camera. :eek:

Rich

[Kermit Burroughs]

Thanks Rich. Yeah, I did reinstall the hook when I removed the column. I have a Lowepro backpack, so I just need to get something to attach it to the hook.

[Timothy So]

I can say the same about my Markins M20. It is much smaller and lighter than my Arca B1. I like the Markins better; it easily supports my Linhof Technikardan 45S in any position. It locks the camera down like a vice and is very smooth in adjustment and panning.

Rich

Another vote for the Markins M20. It has been a perfect match for my Ebony 45S. The tension control is excellent. Locks down like a breeze. For your 6 lb wood field camera it would be quite ideal too...:)

[Kermit Burroughs]

If it weren't for the cash, this would be easy. Making the wiser choice and going to the bigger head kind of puts the RRS out as a choice, even though its my preference. I'm very interested in the Arca Z1. The only downside I can *see* is that the pan lock is small and low. I have small hands, so it might not be an issue. I just really like the flip lock.
I found a thread that said Arca had changed the pan lock knob from all the published pictures (someone bought one last month), but that's the only reference to that I've seen.

[naturephoto1]

Hi Kermit,

Am I correct that you are referring to the flip lock on the Arca Swiss Z1? If so, from my underestanding all of the flip locks do not tighten as much as the the usual screw type.

The Arca Swiss Z1 is available in different forms: Z1 sp (Single Pan) Ballhead with Quick Release ($309, 635g [22.4 oz]; Z1 sp (Single Pan) Ballhead with Flip-Lock Quick Release, ($335, 590g [20.8oz]); Z1 dp (Double Pan) Ballhead with Quick Release ($440, 725g [25.57oz]); and Z1 dp (Double Pan) Ballhead with Flip-Lock Quick Release ($460, 680g [23.99 oz]).

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=469077&is=REG&addedTroughType=search
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=469923&is=REG&addedTroughType=search
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=469926&is=REG&addedTroughType=search
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=469925&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

The Arca info from the B&H site indicates that the Z1 now can support 130 lbs; it is an R version according to the photos. Arca has obviously made changes from the B1 since the B1 can only support 90 lbs and weighs as indicated previously. The Z1 balls are certainly smaller and lighter than the B1

If you are unaware the Markins M10 and M20 are available as L (left) or R (right) versions. Additionally, they can be purchased without a clamp if you desire. If you prefer a 2nd pan feature as the Arca Swiss Z1 you could purchase the panning head from RRS or any rather than an alternate "normal" clamp from RRS or Kirk.

Check the Markins America Site to find the L and R versions of the Markins M10 and M20 as well as their heads without a clamp:

http://www.markinsamerica.com/MA5/index.php

Also, here is the link for the RRS panning clamp:

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/pano/index.html

The RRS panning clamp will cost $235 however. The Markins M10 can be purchased as L or R versions with the clamp for $340 or without the clamp for $310. The Markins M20 can be purchased as L or R versions with the clamp for $390 or $360 without. If you decide you need a Markins Ball Head with a RRS panning clamp, the Markins M10 it will cost $545 and the Markins M20 will cost $595. The RRS panning clamp weighs 296g (10.4oz) The Markins M10 without a clamp weighs 498g (17.57oz) while the Markins M20 without the clamp weighs 568g (20.04 oz). So combining the RRS panning clamp to the Markins M10 the combination should weigh about 794g (28 oz) while the RRS clamp combined with the Markins M20 should weigh about 864g (30.48 oz).

It is apparent that the Arca Z1 are lighter and less expensive options if you require the second panning option. The Arca Z1 is less expensive, but heavier than than the Markins M10 or the Markins M20 heads. Arca claims that the Z1 supports more than the Markins Heads and may be your best option aside from weight and being able to select the head in a L or R version. If lighter and the option of a L or R version are of prime importance, then the Markins heads may be your preference.

Rich

[Kermit Burroughs]

I only need the single pan. Frankly, yes, its the QR lever that I really want. As I don't have one of the heads in front of me I really can't say, but I see no way they shouldn't be tigher than the screw. Its a bicycle skewer and you can apply a great amount of force on those.
Honestly I just think its a better idea.

I really think I'd be happy with either the 20 or the Z. And right now, no one has the Z with the lever. We'll see.

[Eric James]

The new Arca flip lock platform has a silver knurled dial inside the clamp (see BHPV links provided by Rich) allowing one to adjust the width of the clamp's opening. I can leave the dial at a fixed setting for all of my RRS plates, but I have a Kirk plate that requires a closer setting. If the width setting is appropriate for a given plate the lever clamps the plate very securely; I'm not sure if it locks as tightly as the screw clamp, but it's certainly adequate - the key is the width adjustment. Incidentally, I found out the hard way - with frozen hands in windy 5F weather - that the knurled width adjustment knob can be over loosened! The clamp falls apart in your hands and the two tensioning springs are a devil to replace - with frozen hands, anyway.

The Arca lever lock has two safety catches to help minimize the chance that gravity will team up with carelessness. The first safety is positioned on the top of the lever; the secondary safety is positioned inside the clamp. These were a bit fiddly when I was first learning to use them, but now I find them easy to use - even when wearing gloves or mittens.

[kevvyb]

Hi Eric,

Interested to hear your experience with the 'exploding' flip lock. I had same happen just recently in the field. Fortunately was not cold and did not lose any of the bits.

However, this was caused by my trying to readjust to ensure the flip lock lever locked when clamped fully to the plate.

The QR lever locks in the 90 degree (sliding) position but appears to have stopped locking into place when fully closed against the QR plate (locking position), however it is adjusted for tension with the knurled width adjustment knob. I can therefore release the clamp to 90 degree (sliding) position without having to pull the release button.

Have you had experience of this? However I adjust the tension the flip lock will not lock in the locking position.

[Harley Goldman]

I have owned the Kirk BH-3, Acratech Ultimate and the RRS BH-40. I found the Kirk suffered from severe creep and I can not recommend it. I also could not tighten the pan knob to get it to completely hold. The Acratech held very well, but by design, has a LOT of flex in it. I found that to be problematic at full camera extensions. Of the three, I like the BH-40 the best. Holds well and is solid. Not as nice as the BH-55, but still a nice ballhead. Never used the Markins, so cannot compare it.

[kevvyb]

Thanks Harley but that doesn't really answer (or address) my question.

[Harley Goldman]

Hi Kevvyb,

I wasn't trying to answer your question. I was addressing the first post in the topic, which asked about the three ballheads in question. I thought that was the purpose of the topic. :)

[Eric James]

Hi Eric,

Interested to hear your experience with the 'exploding' flip lock. I had same happen just recently in the field. Fortunately was not cold and did not lose any of the bits.

However, this was caused by my trying to readjust to ensure the flip lock lever locked when clamped fully to the plate.

The QR lever locks in the 90 degree (sliding) position but appears to have stopped locking into place when fully closed against the QR plate (locking position), however it is adjusted for tension with the knurled width adjustment knob. I can therefore release the clamp to 90 degree (sliding) position without having to pull the release button.

Have you had experience of this? However I adjust the tension the flip lock will not lock in the locking position.

I just stopped back in without realizing you had asked me a question.

Now that you've had the clamp fall apart once I imagine you'll take more care in the future - it's a disaster waiting to happen, so I've been very careful since I had my mishap.

Funny you should mention the other problem: I had the same thing happen three weeks ago. I sent my flip lock into Precision Camera and they mailed me a new one. This is what I think happens: The last of the silver (tapeworm) sections breaks off and the silver fluted rod no longer reaches the locking socket in the fully closed position.

Easy to remedy, but what a PITA.

Say, can you tell me: 1) How many little brass washers does your flip lock have?
and 2) Which side of the knurled adjustment knob are the washers positioned?

I have four and I rebuilt the thing with the washers on the inside (away from the clamp).

Cheers,
Eric

[Rider]

Also consider: http://acratech.net/

I have a Kirk BH3 and it is marginally adequate with my Ebony RW45E.

In what way is it not adequate (or just barely so)?

[Kirk Gittings]

I have always disliked ballheads, but was finally won over by the new Manfrotto hydraulic ball head with the RC4 QR plate. It carries even a heavy 4x5 flawlessly.

[kevvyb]

Harley, Apologies. Absolutely right. Apologies to Kermit too.

Eric,

Can answer your questions because although my flip lock exploded after being loosened too much, I had it in my hand so it all held together. Only in trying to reassemble did the bits come adrift. There are four washers but they are on the flip lock side of the knurled adjustment wheel.

How long have you had your flip lock? Had mine since April so am not too impressed with this sort of thing happening so soon. It hasn't had very much use so far.

[Eric James]

Mine is coming up on a year old - yeah: not to impressive!

Thanks for the reassembly tip.

[Ole Tjugen]

There's a ball head review in MAGNAchrom - out today. :)

[big_ben_blue]

I use two beaten up NPC Proheads. Not really ballheads per se, but not pan&tilt head eithers (something in the middle). Extremely sturdy, and built stupid simple. I don't believe they are still made though (fleahbay might be an option).

[vinny]

From another thread:

I bought a b1 with the flip lock in december 2005. Right out of the box, the flip lock would stick when a qr plate was installed. In other words, the camera couldn't be removed without sticking something like a key behind the lock and pulling the little textured pin outwards. I didn't have another head so i had to use the b1 at the time. B&H wouldn't take it back since it was past the 14 day period. I contacted arca swiss and found out they don't fix their own equipment nor wood they send me a replacement. I sent it to the company they use in chicago for a fix and they fixed something else that wasn't wrong instead. They said they had a bunch of heads come back with lock-up problems involving the ball. Good to know. I still have the head and don't usually have flip lock problems unless it's below freezing. It works great even with my 8x10.
Would i buy another arca swiss product. Hell No! Too much $$$ for something too fall apart right out of the box and poor customer service.

vinny

[Ted Harris]

The Magnachrome review was interesting but it left out a lot that I am interested in. Further, I'll quibble with their review of the Novoflex Classic Ball 3. They say no way with a Technikarden and, while that may well be the case, I have been using one with a Toyo AII for nearly a year and it works very very well ... better than my old Acratech and as well as my Foba. Locks up tight and holds tension firmly. No complaints.

[MJSfoto1956]

The Magnachrome [sic] review was interesting but it left out a lot that I am interested in.

like what?


Further, I'll quibble with their review of the Novoflex Classic Ball 3. They say no way with a Technikarden [sic] and, while that may well be the case, I have been using one with a Toyo AII for nearly a year and it works very very well ... better than my old Acratech and as well as my Foba. Locks up tight and holds tension firmly. No complaints.

As stated clearly in the article: your mileage may vary. In the case of a TK45s vs Toyo, the TK is both heavier and due to its higher profile generates a larger moment arm. Our simple test demonstrated that the TK45 could not be held with this ballhead at a 45 degree angle and as such received a "no". I could of course actually use this ballhead out in the field quite effectively with a TK45 as long as I was keeping things centered on the ball. However, given the other choices out there, we felt there were much better ballheads appropriate for large format cameras than this one.