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walter23
24-Feb-2007, 13:35
How do people shoot these anyway? Packard shutters or something like that? Stop down or shoot in low light with the lens cap as a shutter?

Gordon Moat
24-Feb-2007, 13:55
This week I was able to try out my 1935 Zeiss Tessar 21cm f4.5 with colour transparency films. I used the cap for a fast speed of two seconds, or longer for easier to do time exposures. To use it in daylight, I machined down an adapter (58mm to 52mm) to a tolerance fit, which now allows me to place 52mm filters in front of the lens. After getting the adapter on the lens, I can use ND filters to allow longer exposures in daylight conditions. While not as nice as having a shutter, it makes the lens more usable.

I would like to eventually have some sort of shutter solution, ideally with a sync post for flash. The downside of this is the high cost of old shutters that would actually fit the lens. I have trouble spending much on a barrel lens and shutter solution when the cost of everything combined is near the price of a much newer lens of similar focal length in a much newer (and smaller) Copal shutter. If you have several barrel lenses that can share a shutter, then it might make more sense.

A Packard shutter in front of the lens is one option. Another is a roller blind shutter, which will offer more shutter speeds. Then there are leaf shutters such as Ilex, Rapax, Alpha, or a few others that might be possible to mount to the front of the barrel. Then another issue is the weight on the front standard with all that.

Very old Compound shutters that can fit behind the lens barrel are another choice. The downside here is cost, since these are very desirable for people shooting 8x10 or larger formats. They do not come up for sale often, and can sometimes run more than a newer lens/shutter combination just by themselves. if you are patient and search carefully to find a better deal, these might be the best choice for barrel lenses.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

C. D. Keth
24-Feb-2007, 13:56
The answer is yes. All of those things are options. Some barrel lenses can be front mounted on a shutter, but this often limits their coverage or maximum aperture. Another option is to use ND to lengthen exposure times.

Jim Galli figured out a way to use two 5x7 darkslides as a shutter. He holds them both with one hand so they form a plane with a wedge cut out of it. Moving this past the lens at different speeds and/or with a different cutout angle will change shutter speed. I can do it fairly accurate to about an 8th of a second. Jim is better practiced and I think he mentioned having it down to about a 20th or so. I'm sure he'll be attracted here and correct me if that's wrong.

Walter Calahan
24-Feb-2007, 14:09
Another way is to mount these lenses to cameras with focal plane shutters, such as a Speed Graphic or a Graflex SLR.

Dan Fromm
24-Feb-2007, 14:12
Walter, I shoot an absurd number of lenses in barrel. Some of the lenses are absurd too. Mainly process lenses, usually f/9 or f/11; some aerial camera lenses, one of them f/2; and a variety of more or less normal lenses for formats larger than 2x3.

Two ways. I use a 2x3 Speed Graphic, which has a focal plane shutter. If you shoot 4x5 (your screen name suggests otherwise), there are 4x5 Speeds.

Front mounted on a #1 shutter. Chris' concern about the risks of vignetting is well taken, but I haven't found it to be a problem with my lenses, my adapters for hanging them in front of the shutter, and 2x3. For larger formats, it would probably be best to use a #5. #5 Betaxes aren't that expensive.

Gene McCluney
24-Feb-2007, 14:17
The logical way to use a barrel lens is to mount a Packard shutter on the back side of your lens board. They are still made, but you can find used ones in all sizes. If your barrel lens is big, and you have a small lensboard, you can still use a small packard shutter, but it will restrict the maximum aperture of the lens. It will still work though. A packard shutter will have two operating options, both using a bulb and airhose. One option is open and close. The other option is an instantaneous speed of about 1/20 sec., depending on the size of the shutter. If you are the least bit mechanically inclined, you can mount a micro-switch on the back of the shutter such that when the air cylinder reaches the top of its travel (shutter fully open) it will push on the micro-switch, closing its contacts and acting as a flash-trigger.

Ole Tjugen
24-Feb-2007, 14:20
Speed Graphic, or slow film and a big hat.

I've got a packard shutter somewhere, but can't make up my mind which camera to mount it on/in - the 24x30cm plate camera is a good candidate, but the thickness would actually limit the possible focal lengths I can use on it!

walter23
24-Feb-2007, 14:27
Two ways. I use a 2x3 Speed Graphic, which has a focal plane shutter. If you shoot 4x5 (your screen name suggests otherwise), there are 4x5 Speeds.

Hah, I hadn't noticed that (for medium format, as with most other things except large format, I think in centimeters). I shoot 4x5 (at least, in the hypothetical context of barrel lenses, of which I own none yet).

Mark Sawyer
24-Feb-2007, 15:12
Neutral density filters or a pair of stacked/rotating polarizers let you get longer shutter speeds if you want to work wide open and still use a simple lens cap.

I prefer to think of mine as "kegs" rather than "barrels"...

Ash
24-Feb-2007, 17:13
check out my thread here for how I managed it http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=23098

Jim Noel
28-Feb-2007, 09:54
Jim Galli's method works well with only a little practice.

Curt Palm
28-Feb-2007, 10:05
I have a luc shutter, it mounts to the front of a lens with thumb-screws, they thumbscrews aren't very long so it fits a narrow range of lens diameters. it has one speed plus open/close option. they seem to run $ 50- 100 on ebay and turn up there once in a while.

Jim Galli
28-Feb-2007, 11:44
Here's how my shutter works. (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum44/22200-jim-galli-shutter-barrel-lenses-drum-roll-please.html) I used it just last weekend in Rhyolite.

Pete Watkins
28-Feb-2007, 12:06
Walter,
LUC shutters are a bit European (they were made in Germany) and availability in the U.S. could be a bit limited. I've got a few and as long as you can cope with about 1/125th they work well and they are a lot lighter than Packards. This is not a critisim of Packards (I have and have used a couple of those as well), LUC's are just different.
I've also glued the lens nut/locking ring from a Copal 1 shutter to the front of a Repromaster process lens with great sucess, when I get more locking rings I'm going to perform this stunt with a few other repromasters (I've got an f8 135 mm which must be quite modern as most of them are f9).
Best wishes,
Pete.

Doug Howk
28-Feb-2007, 13:33
I have 4 barrel lens and two are with Packard shutters. The other two I use lens socks originally designed by Tom Hoskinson view APUG thread here (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum48/26057-exposure-barrel-lenses-2.html) The lens socks work fine since they slip on/off with minimal vibration.

Ash
28-Feb-2007, 14:08
I've not seen the lens-sock things. Anyone got the images uploaded somewhere you don't need to be a subscriber to view?

Jim your method looks great, unfortunately it wouldn't solve my own problem of mounting each lens on the camera!

For me, once the lenses are on their mounting blocks, everything is interchangeable and if needed I could even 'borrow' your method by keeping the packard shutter wide open, then using the slits ;)

Pete Watkins
28-Feb-2007, 14:14
I've just re-read my post. LUC's are good for 1/25th NOT 1/125th, sorry.
Pete.

Ole Tjugen
28-Feb-2007, 14:47
Jim your method looks great, unfortunately it wouldn't solve my own problem of mounting each lens on the camera!

Ash, you need one of these: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showpost.php?p=197964&postcount=4

Not the lenses or the camera, but the iris lens mount that's on the camera!

Any lens from about 15 to 94mm diameter can be mounted in the same lens holder. And it even holds a 2.5kg 640mm f:8 Aplanat securely.

Ash
28-Feb-2007, 14:51
Yea I've been recommended one of them. I'll be damned if I can find one though!

Doug Kerr
1-Mar-2007, 22:08
Hi, Gene,


. . . A packard shutter will have two operating options, both using a bulb and airhose. One option is open and close. The other option is an instantaneous speed of about 1/20 sec., depending on the size of the shutter.

The instantaneous mode is only provided on the Packard No. 6 (or the more rare No. 8) shutter.


If you are the least bit mechanically inclined, you can mount a micro-switch on the back of the shutter such that when the air cylinder reaches the top of its travel (shutter fully open) it will push on the micro-switch, closing its contacts and acting as a flash-trigger.

There are Packard shutters around that also have a genuine flash sync contact built in.

Ash
2-Mar-2007, 04:55
Who knows more about the number 8? I'm possibly buying one.

Ole Tjugen
2-Mar-2007, 05:26
Who knows more about the number 8? I'm possibly buying one.

http://www.packardshutter.com/

They're still being made, you know :)

Ash
2-Mar-2007, 09:18
The number 8 isn't. I've been in contact with Reno. The 5&6 are in demand, but the 8 was too difficult to manufacture so they stopped making them 35 years ago. I'm just looking for more info on them Ole :)

Ernest Purdum
3-Mar-2007, 10:41
The number 8 is a convenience if you don't tend to get mixed up. As with any old Packard, though, condition is the most important fsctor. Maybe more so for an 8. If the maker found manufacture difficult, maybe refurbishing would be diffficult too,

Jim Galli
3-Mar-2007, 10:46
Ash, the 8 needs 2 hoses, 2 bulbs. One is for time only. Stays open until you close it and one is for instant. At 54 remembering which bulb does what is getting to be a challenge.

Ash
3-Mar-2007, 10:50
Ernest, it's a NOS from Reno, I'm buying it with a years guarantee. Jim/Ern I guess that the two cylinders would get me a little muddled though :)

Ernest Purdum
4-Mar-2007, 11:21
Ash, NOS sounds great. Are you buying the bulbs from Reno, too? If you need a red bulb, let me know and I'll send you one no charge. If you need a black bulb I may be able to help, too, but I am not sure,

Ash
4-Mar-2007, 11:36
Ernest see here - http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=23774

that's the dilemma I'm facing between buying the packard and not.

Saves going OT here. :)

Ernest Purdum
4-Mar-2007, 14:02
Well, between the two, I think I'd go with the Russian, mostly because of the timed speeds. On the other hand, if you plan on long exposures only, lensboards for the Russian shutter could be a bit of a problem. Whether or not this would tip matters in favour of the Packard would have to be your choice.

Ash
4-Mar-2007, 14:08
so much for not hijacking :)

Well I thought long exposures would be easier with the Ruskie, since a locking cable release is 'as instant' as an air bulb.

Pete Watkins
5-Mar-2007, 00:03
Ash,
On the Sunday 20th of May the Photographica 2007 event is taking place in London. It's organised by The Camera Collectors Club of Great Britain. I'm going on spec as a couple of dealers who I meet regularly, and buy old "stuff" from have recommended a visit. I'm not a collector (more a hoarder) but I'm hoping for a few L.F. bargains, LUC's etc. I know that it'll cost a few quid to get there but it's only five quid to get in and you should get a few hours to photograph in London (mind you don't get arrested by Kenny's men though!).
Pete.

Ash
5-Mar-2007, 02:53
Pete thanks for the HU. But will me and you be fighting over the few bargains they'll have? :D

If I can make it I'll drop you a PM with my mobile number and meet you for a pint during the day if you like. Pretty difficult to miss a tall ginger haired guy though ;)

Dan Fromm
5-Mar-2007, 04:52
Ash,

Speak of, um, the devil: http://cgi.ebay.com/1-9-300mm-LENS-with-SUTTER-1-1-2-1-15-1-30-B-T-RARE_W0QQitemZ150098328429QQihZ005QQcategoryZ15248QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem