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naturephoto1
22-Feb-2007, 08:49
Hi All,

I am trying to decide which is the best and possibly lightest, and most practical way (s) of shading my lenses in the field for transparency shooting with my Linhof Technikardan 45S and my Toho Shimo FC-45X from Sunlight and reflections. Presently I am using the Cokin P holder system as I have tried to keep all of my field lens filter sizes to 77mm or smaller. My present lenses include focal lengths of 75mm, 90mm, 120mm, 150mm, 210mm, 240mm (Apo Ronar MC), 300mm (Apo Ronar MC), 360mm (Apo Ronar), 450mm (Fuji C with 105mm Extension), 500mm and 720mm (Nikon ED T).

I have in the past generally been fortunate and have worked carefully without any or little lens shading. I do have the Linhof Compendium shade which can only be used on the Technikardan 45S but it is seldom used.

I have one of the double clamps from Calumet (similar and not as long as my Ebony Lens Shade Clip [which can be mounted on the Linhof but not the Toho]) which can clamp to the camera standard. Either of these clamps can be clamped to a Dark Slide to act as a shade. With this option the Calumet clamp is not long enough to shade the 450mm lens on the 105mm of extension or the Nikon 500mm and 720mm lenses.

I also have 2 of the Heliopan hoods- one a short metal hood (about 3/4" long) and a collapsing rubber hood also about 3/4" when extended. The 2 hoods screw together for about 1 3/4" of hood; the 2 hoods have a 77mm thread size. Presently, I have step up rings for my 43mm to 49mm, 49mm to 77mm, 58mm to 77mm and 67mm to 77mm made by Heliopan. The only step up ring for my lenses that I would presently require would be the Heliopan 52mm to 77mm.

Another consideration is the usage of the Cokin P Holder for all of the lenses when not using the lenses alone with only the UV filters. I have all of the proper adapter rings to use my lenses with the Cokin P Holder. I would be using the following P sized filters individually or as 2 or very infrequently 3 together: Singh-Ray Warming Circular Polaring Filter, Singh-Ray LB Enhancing Filter, Singh-Ray A13 Warming Filter, Singh-Ray Grad ND filters (different grades and hardnesses), Lee Coral Stripe, Lee Sunset Filter, Lee Coral Grad Filter. I am considering the Purchase of the Lee Pro Hood for Cokin "P" Series Filter Holder.

The link to the B & H listing for the Lee Pro Hood is below:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=133282&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

I would appreciate any suggestions and insight as to what is the best plan of action. I know nothing solves everything. :( :eek:

Rich

Bruce Watson
22-Feb-2007, 09:07
I know it's not for everyone, but I've had good luck just using the pulled darkslide to shade the lens. The trick is, apparently, to create the minimal shadow necessary -- so you just cover the filter threads. That way you minimize the possibility of the darkslide showing up on your film.

The reasons I don't use things like compendium lens shades are weight (I'm a backpacker), setup time, and that I very seldom shoot towards the sun.

Brian Ellis
22-Feb-2007, 09:11
The Linhof compendium shade that you already own is probably as good as anything else for your Technikardan, I don't know anything about the Toho. As I'm sure you've discovered, it isn't real convenient to use but I don't know of anything as good that's significantly more convenient. I've used a Lee shade, perhaps not the same one shown in your link. The one I used was a little more convenient than the Linhof compendium because it screwed onto the lens like a filter but it required a different adapter for each different lens filter size, plus it was so big that with some lenses it bumped into the camera bed and so couldn't be screwed on with the lens on the camera.

I've always understood that those little round shades sold with 35mm lenses or the similar rubber shades that screw onto lenses are pretty much useless. I think you need something rectangular like the film, something that can be adjusted to achieve the optimum length before vignetting, and something that can track the front movements of a large format camera. That pretty much describes the Linhof compendium shade (and maybe others, the only ones I've used are the Linhof and the Lee).

naturephoto1
22-Feb-2007, 09:11
I know it's not for everyone, but I've had good luck just using the pulled darkslide to shade the lens. The trick is, apparently, to create the minimal shadow necessary -- so you just cover the filter threads. That way you minimize the possibility of the darkslide showing up on your film.

The reasons I don't use things like compendium lens shades are weight (I'm a backpacker), setup time, and that I very seldom shoot towards the sun.

Hi Bruce,

That is kind of my thinking as well and I too seldom shoot into the sun. Certainly weight does become an issue. I have used something like a Gray Card as a Shade in the past myself, but even carrying a separate Dark Slide is a light option (I am shooting with a Kodak Readyload Holder and Fuji Quickload Film).

Rich

Bruce Watson
22-Feb-2007, 09:16
I have used something like a Gray Card as a Shade in the past myself, but even carrying a separate Dark Slide is a light option (I am shooting with a Kodak Readyload Holder and Fuji Quickload Film).

When I'm shooting readyloads, I tend to use my hat to shade the lens. Sometimes all it takes is standing in the right place and tilting my head just so... ;-)

Vick Vickery
22-Feb-2007, 09:22
These guys covered the subject pretty well...why do you think you never see photos of the old photographers without a hat on!!! I normally use a hat, a darkslide, or the shadow of my head or hand.

John Kasaian
22-Feb-2007, 09:39
I use my hat, but if you want to get high-tech about this a piece of that heavy foil thats black on one side can be formed into a lens shade that'll fit about any lens

Henry Ambrose
22-Feb-2007, 10:51
There is a recent discussion about lens shading here:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=23254&highlight=lens+shade

Robert Zeichner came up with good idea and wrote an article for Photo Techniques thats in the current issue. Its discussed in the above thread. I'm inclined to build/modify something like this. I've been using black cinefoil and tape but its not as easy to control precisely as nice little barn doors on hinges.

roteague
22-Feb-2007, 17:23
Rich,

I have two of those Lee shades. One that fits the standard Lee holder, and one with a built in slot (in the back). The one you have attached isn't a good picture of how it works - it shows the front of the shade, the filters are designed to go behind the shade. The slot on the front is for one of those type of cheap polyester filters.

The Lee shade works quite well, the bellows is stiff enough that they stay in place once set. However, the one you show doesn't work well with wide angle lenses. There is a wide angle version (not sure if it works on the Cokin or not), but it doesn't work well on a camera with a flatboard (like the Toyo or Tachihara).

Brian Ellis
22-Feb-2007, 21:01
Using your hand, a dark-slide etc. is fine for shading the lens from direct sunlight but that's all it does. The days when you really need a good shade aren't days when sun light is striking the the lens, that's easy to deal with. You need a good shade on those bright/cloudy days when extraneous light is striking the lens from all directions. If your hand, dark slides, etc. were an adequate substitute for a good shade then nobody would be making and selling good shades.

Don Boyd
22-Feb-2007, 21:16
Rich, I use the Lee hoods on my Toho. The regular one will vignette with my 90mm Nikkor 4.5, so I use the Lee wide angle version with it. Carrying two hoods is a lot of extra weight and space in my bag and I would like to find something that works with my entire range of lenses (90-450).

naturephoto1
22-Feb-2007, 23:49
I have a hairbrained idea that may work at least for my situation. I would have to still purchase the one step up ring for 58mm to 77mm to cover my lenses and I would also need to purchase a 77 mm to 77mm female coupler ring made perhaps by SK Grimes.

I have a short metal Heliopan Hood as I mentioned in 77mm size. See the first attachment bellow. Additionally, I also have a collapsible rubber Heliopan Rubber Hood in 77mm size see the 2nd attatchment (but this is not like my hood because mine is I believe a wide angle hood). I purchased these hoods quite some time ago, I would guess back about 1988 or so when Ken Hansen Photographic started importing the Heliopan system and before they were readily available. The Rubber Hood I believe is a wide angle hood which may no longer be made. The 2 hoods can screw together and when I purchased them the intent was to use them separately or together.

Additionally, I have checked the 77mm adapter ring and found that it will in fact slide into the front slot for the Grad filters of the P Holder. If I had a 77 mm to 77mm female coupler ring made, I could thread the hood (s) to the Cokin P 77mm Adapter ring. Therefore, I could use the same hood (s) attatched to the Cokin P Holder or directly to the lenses.

Regardless, I would have to confirm on the GG that there was no cut-off or vignetting caused by the hood (s) or any problems of stray light hitting the lens or front filters.

Rich

Carsten Wolff
23-Feb-2007, 01:25
I'm using The Lee pro hood P myself; it is actually really light, collapses quite flat and is a great (and relatively cheap) option. I also carry one of those bending clip-on whatsitsname rods to hold a darkslide, but I, too find that I a) seldom shoot into the sun and b) if I do do, holding a darkslide does the trick most of the time.... I agree with Brian, "open/bright diffuse light" days are the ones to watch out for....and, yes, I do up to week-long hikes with my (5x7) kit, but the little extra weight and size of the Pro Shade are minor ( I rather leave some heavy lens behind....).

Robert A. Zeichner
23-Feb-2007, 05:46
There is a recent discussion about lens shading here:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=23254&highlight=lens+shade

Robert Zeichner came up with good idea and wrote an article for Photo Techniques thats in the current issue. Its discussed in the above thread. I'm inclined to build/modify something like this. I've been using black cinefoil and tape but its not as easy to control precisely as nice little barn doors on hinges.

The reason I wrote this article had mostly to do with the discovery that I made about round shades, hats, dark slides and lots of other devices I've used over the years to shade my lenses as compared with what I was able to achieve with my barndoor shade.

The problem with fixed, round shades is that they at best, only prevent light outside of what, on the film would be the minimum image circle of the lens, when focused at infinity and when perfectly centered, on axis with the film. It doesn't address the fact that film is rectangular and can vary in proportion from format to format. It doesn't address bellows flare and it doesn't address much of what can be highly luminous areas outside of the picture area.

The problem with fixed, square shades is that while better than round ones in cutting closer to the sides of the image, they still don't take into consideration the difference in aspect ratio of various formats of film.

The problem with both of the above is that they can't be adjusted to compensate for movements, notably shift and rise, and so their shading effect becomes assymetrical with the projected image on the film, leaving much unwanted light to enter the lens.

Compendium shades are certainly better and ones that provide some adjustment to the angle at which they cut light entering the lens are better yet, but they still are of a fixed proportion and don't always prevent some unwanted light from entering the lens.

Is the business of allowing non-picture forming light into the lens a big problem? It can be. Modern, multi-coated lenses certainly do a marvelous job of arresting reflections within the lens and some are darn near flare-proof! But even those won't prevent non-image forming light from striking the interior of the bellows and causing flare that way. Single coated lenses are not so immune to flare caused by sky, sand, snow and other such highly luminous subjects, even in overcast conditions. Uncoated optics are worse yet. It is with these types of lenses that the most dramatic improvement can be realized.

The whole idea of my barndoor shade is to customize the shading of every lens in my kit and with every combination of movement I employ to insure that I have NO bellows flare and the least amount of lens induced flare that can be achieved. The results I have seen are quite dramatic.

The weight and bulk of this contraption and the adapter rings needed to clip it to 2 or 3 different sizes of lenses I have is not much more than the collection of rubber shades I have carried in the past and the results are worth it.

Consider this: If you are using a panoramic format that has a height to width ratio of 1:2, a round shade that doesn't vignette your image will allow an amount of non-image forming light into your lens that will, at very least, equal the area of the image itself. You can demonstrate this for yourself by making a drawing of a circle that just touches the corners of a rectangle that represents the film format you are using and then calculating the total area of the space between the circle and the rectangle.

Those working in panoramic formats with vintage lenses will be amazed at the difference this system can make in the shadow detail (local contrast) of your negatives.

naturephoto1
23-Feb-2007, 11:15
I have ordered one of the Lee Pro Hoods for the Cokin P holder. The item was out of stock, but I will see how it works when it arrives. Since the hood loads into the front slot in the Cokin P Holder, I will try to come up with ways of taping or clamping the Hood connection directly to the Cokin P adapters for the different filter sizes when and if needed when not using the Cokin P holder. I will have to check the system to see if there is cut off or vignetting with my 75mm and 90mm lenses and try to solve the problem if it is evident.

Rich

ageorge
23-Feb-2007, 12:59
Google "FlareBuster"

Carsten Wolff
23-Feb-2007, 17:34
Ahh, yes, the flarebuster was my "whatsistsname" item... good, light, small and simple.
Re: Richards comment about vignetting of the ProHood: yes that can become an issue,
It seems to be fine collapsed even on the 75mm (and I cut off the 2nd slot on the Cokin holder to make it shorter) but if it's collapsed I may as well just use my flarebuster with the Grey card ("Gray" card to our American friends) :) or dark slide instead.

Alan Davenport
23-Feb-2007, 18:53
That FlareBuster thing looks great. I know it will work because it's exactly the same as a darkslide, only it's got a stick to hold it. :confused:

I think the darkslide will be cheaper, easier to adjust, and a lot harder to leave at home.

Carsten Wolff
24-Feb-2007, 02:08
true, just a bit of a 3rd hand substitute....