Linotype-Hell Topaz scanner

[rob]

I'm picking up a Linotype-Hell Topaz Scanner for $125 next week. Is this a good price for this industrial oldies? It looks like the first generation, 6000 pixel CCD. It seems to have optical zooming capability, doesn't it? Can anyone share info about it? How good is this scanner in term of resolution, color etc?

thanks
rob

[Gordon Moat]

If it is still working nicely, and the glass is fairly clean, the results should be really good. I think actual D-max should still be nearly 3.8 or even as good as 4.0, depending upon which vintage. It would work nicely for transparency scanning. Just for reference, Genesis Equipment has a few in stock:

http://genesis-equipment.com/products.cfm?prodTypeID=6&manID=2

Seems that if you really do have a not so old Topaz, it is still quite desirable. LaserSoft is now also making a version of SilverFast software for most of these, so you should be able to drive it with a more modern computer. The old LinoColor software is good, but would mean running an old computer dedicated to the scanner.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

[Ted Harris]

I hope Gordon is right but the machine may be firmware limited as well in terms of the vintage of the machine that will work with it.

Regarding the software, I would recommend using the LinoColor software if the machine comes with as it is very capable software and may pull more out of the machine than Silverfast.

It's a good price for the machine assuming it is in topflight working condition. You do know how big it is I assume?

[archivue]

Regarding the software, I would recommend using the LinoColor software if the machine comes with as it is very capable software and may pull more out of the machine than Silverfast.

it depends... for COLOR NEGATIVE i will go with silverfast !

[rob]

It's a good price for the machine assuming it is in topflight working condition. You do know how big it is I assume?

It's from a closing press-business. The owner claimed it works fine. Yeah, I know, it's a 300 lb beast. I believe he has the linocolor software for the mac. I'll let the group know what my opinion would be when I get it next week or so.

[Ted Harris]

If it were being offered to me I would run a couple of scans with it before hauling. There is a printing biz near me that has one sitting in the hall ... been there for 4 years. Ask and they will tell you it works fine but no one has fired it up since they replaced it.

[rob]

Thanks for the advice, Ted. I just called him, he actually offered me to test it. Should I bring a mounted 35mm slide or larger slides (I have some 6x7s)? He also mentioned that it also comes with a fluid mounting thingy. Is it true that you can increase or decrease the magnification of its lens so that you get higher or lower dpi from it? The common flatbed scanners like the epsons have fix lens (or dual lenses in the V series), so does the topaz work like this common flatbed? I do really hope I'm getting something cool. :)

[Karl Hudson]

The Topaz is a remarkable product and I'm sure you will be quite pleased with it. The 6000 pixel CCD version is the first generation and they don't have much resale value anymore. An easy way to tell the difference is the shape of the blinking lights on top of the legs...Rectangular is Topaz 1 and round ones mean its a Topaz 2. Bear in mind the Linocolor is Mac OS 9 only. If you need to run the scanner with OS X, then Silverfast is the way to go. I am actually a dealer for Silverfast and could save you three hundred dollars off their price if you decide to go that direction. The scaling range on that machine is 20% to 2000% based on a 35mm slide mounted in the center of the scanning tray. It is important to lock the CCD and lens carriages before moving the scanner. If you initialize the machine and after its done take off the two long plates under the back cover, you will see that if you turn these plates over there is a little tongue which goes down through the main cover and lines up with a screw hole. A 3mm allen screw will hold the carriages in place. Make sure you take these screws out and flip the plates back over to cover the holes before firing the scanner back up at its new location. Hope this helps.

[Joerg Krusche]

rob,

if it is working then you have bought a very good scanner. I have acces to one that runs on a G3 or G4 with Linoscan 6.0.12, which appears to an outstanding software. Nice feature is the tablet on which you put your negative or chrome emulsion side down, i.e. no frames etc. Plane of sharpness is where it belongs. Liquid mounting is a matter of a few seconds, film cleaner on the glass .. film emulsion side down .. film cleaner on backside of film .. mylar(polyester sheet) on top .. push air bubbles out .. and there you are .. you will never again do without it .. and it is easy. Scan with sharpening off !! .. in Preview check the various scanner options for the Fine scan .. then run Fine Scan .. store the file and open with PS .. do the sharpening in small increments if you want or whatever adjustments .. the Autotools in PS will often be a reasonable match. The entire machine .. Incomparably superior to the Epson's. Enjoy the Topaz !!

Joerg

[rob]

Karl and Joerg, thanks for the advices. I will bring allen screw set there, and lock the carriage before bringing it into the car.

[Ted Harris]

Rob. the Topaz, IIRC, uses a zoom lens. It was, when in production, sort of Heidelberg's 'entry level' high end scaner usingmuch of the technology of their top-of-the line F4200. To give you an idea of performance the F4200, in a comparative test conducted by Seybold of most of the then current high end scanners using a 4x5 chrome the F4200 rank 4th out of 14 scanners tested. The Heidelberg 2400 ranked near the bottom and the Topaz, had it been tested likely would ahve come out better than the 2400 and not as good as the 4200 ... a long winded way of saying that you will get excellent performance from this machine as all the scanners that were tested are in a different universe than the prosumer scanners.

[JW Dewdney]

Regarding the software, I would recommend using the LinoColor software if the machine comes with as it is very capable software and may pull more out of the machine than Silverfast.

it depends... for COLOR NEGATIVE i will go with silverfast !

For COLOR NEGATIVE - I'd go for LinoColor 6.0 !!!
:)

really.

[rob]

After talking more with the seller about locking the CCD/lens of the scanner for transport, he said that this scanner actually moves the glass platform (where you put the transparencies) instead of the ccd/lens assembly during scanning. From our conversation, it seems that the glass platform is removable. He doesn't know whether it should be locked during transport. He mentioned that an image setter needs to be locked during transport. My question is: do I still need to lock it before transporting it? How?
thanks for any advices.

[Ted Harris]

Actually they both move if memory serves ...the platform moves in one axis and the ccd in the other.

[rob]

Thanks for the info, Ted. When I get there tomorrow, I'll check on the scanner what Karl Hudson said in his post about locking the CCD/lens. I want to be really careful to not to damage it.

[erie patsellis]

Though there isn't a version of Linocolor for the PC platform, there is Color Factory Pro, I use it with my Opal Ultra.



erie


The Topaz is a remarkable product and I'm sure you will be quite pleased with it. The 6000 pixel CCD version is the first generation and they don't have much resale value anymore. An easy way to tell the difference is the shape of the blinking lights on top of the legs...Rectangular is Topaz 1 and round ones mean its a Topaz 2. Bear in mind the Linocolor is Mac OS 9 only. If you need to run the scanner with OS X, then Silverfast is the way to go. I am actually a dealer for Silverfast and could save you three hundred dollars off their price if you decide to go that direction. The scaling range on that machine is 20% to 2000% based on a 35mm slide mounted in the center of the scanning tray. It is important to lock the CCD and lens carriages before moving the scanner. If you initialize the machine and after its done take off the two long plates under the back cover, you will see that if you turn these plates over there is a little tongue which goes down through the main cover and lines up with a screw hole. A 3mm allen screw will hold the carriages in place. Make sure you take these screws out and flip the plates back over to cover the holes before firing the scanner back up at its new location. Hope this helps.

[rob]

Finally I had a little time to play with this topaz scanner. This is an example scan of a 35mm velvia slide at 8150 dpi. It can do 8150 dpi by scanning along the long dimension of the film. I did not correct the color. No sharpening from the scanner. Film was laid on the glass, and I put 2 pieces of glass on top of the perforation sides to keep the film flat.
http://faculty.washington.edu/robi/test2.jpg

The pics below are the actual resolution (100%) of the red rectangle area (red arrow, "NE 42 ST", I used to live in that area) without USM:
http://faculty.washington.edu/robi/nousm.jpg

and with USM (Threshold 1, 3 pixels, 200%).
http://faculty.washington.edu/robi/usm.jpg

Under a dissection microscope, I could still see more from the slide, but this scanner is much much better than my epson 3200. It's well worth $125 :D, but it's also a monster.

[bwchrome]

rob; YES you must lock these things when moving this machine!

I wont get into the terrible experience we had with this machine, but you are lucky to have a good working unit at this price.

BTW, Karl Hudson is the go-to guy for this equipment. We had to lean on him heavily with our many problems. He charges us nothing and answered many email.

good to see a good story revolving this machine.

dw

www.dr5.com
www.filmrecording.net




After talking more with the seller about locking the CCD/lens of the scanner for transport, he said that this scanner actually moves the glass platform (where you put the transparencies) instead of the ccd/lens assembly during scanning. From our conversation, it seems that the glass platform is removable. He doesn't know whether it should be locked during transport. He mentioned that an image setter needs to be locked during transport. My question is: do I still need to lock it before transporting it? How?
thanks for any advices.

[Ivan JB]

rob,

if it is working then you have bought a very good scanner. I have acces to one that runs on a G3 or G4 with Linoscan 6.0.12, which appears to an outstanding software. Nice feature is the tablet on which you put your negative or chrome emulsion side down, i.e. no frames etc. Plane of sharpness is where it belongs. Liquid mounting is a matter of a few seconds, film cleaner on the glass .. film emulsion side down .. film cleaner on backside of film .. mylar(polyester sheet) on top .. push air bubbles out .. and there you are .. you will never again do without it .. and it is easy. Scan with sharpening off !! .. in Preview check the various scanner options for the Fine scan .. then run Fine Scan .. store the file and open with PS .. do the sharpening in small increments if you want or whatever adjustments .. the Autotools in PS will often be a reasonable match. The entire machine .. Incomparably superior to the Epson's. Enjoy the Topaz !!

Joerg

I have a Heildelberg_Linotype-Hell Topaz 2 scaner. Is connected to a G4 Mac running 0S 9.2.2. Linocolor 6.0.12 is not saving my scans. I can do all the adjustments but once I want to save the TIFF scan the machines stays in a constant saving cycle. I changed the location it will save and it freezes when I do this any suggestions. I already found the Silverfast software, but spending $2500.00 on software when I'm just doing a scan every two months is not worth it to me. I just want this software to run as smooth as it was before. When is on I get one of the best scans I can buy from a flatbed. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

[Joerg Krusche]

Hi,

I am afraid I cannot help you .. if it works it's great .. if not I have a problem with such a machine .. try to keep the file not too large .. scan at max 1800 to 2400 dpi .. going much higher by interpolation will not add that much but inflate file size .. storing with adequate size is best .. keep file small and try again ??

just my less than 2 cents,

joerg

[rob]

I have a Heildelberg_Linotype-Hell Topaz 2 scaner. Is connected to a G4 Mac running 0S 9.2.2. Linocolor 6.0.12 is not saving my scans. I can do all the adjustments but once I want to save the TIFF scan the machines stays in a constant saving cycle. I changed the location it will save and it freezes when I do this any suggestions. I already found the Silverfast software, but spending $2500.00 on software when I'm just doing a scan every two months is not worth it to me. I just want this software to run as smooth as it was before. When is on I get one of the best scans I can buy from a flatbed. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

It may be a dumb question: the software needs a dongle connected to the mac ADB connector (keyboard and mouse) in order to save the scan, did you check this dongle?

[Allen in Montreal]

Ivan,

I too have had these issues, while not totally resolved, here are things I have picked up along the way.

I am running Linocolor 6 on OS 9.2.2 on a 233 mhz G3.

1)

Lighten the operating system. remove all unneeded extensions and control panels (place them in a disabled folder) to reduce the OS demands. Clean up the hard drive to allow as much scratch disk space as possible. I need 2 gigs of scratch disk space to save a 1 gig scan. If you have Norton, run Speed disk and Defrag the disk.

I may blast my hard drive and do a clean install with nothing but OS, Photoshop and Linocolor to see if that works better. perhaps a scratch disk partition of 10 gigs or so.

2)


Linocolor seems to prefer LAB scans and saves much larger LAB files than Gray. I scan using the gray channel in LAB.

If you scan a 6100 dpi 4x5 or a 4000 dpi 5x7 file in Gray, it won't save unless I go in to Correction/image size/ down size. The software will give you a green light, yellow or red depending on the requested downscale.

That said, if you save as another format than TIFF, it will save!
I can save a 4000 dpi Gray scan as an EPS, or LAB but not as a TIFF.

8x10 negs just don't want to save over 2500 dpi but I can live with that, it is enough meat in the file for my needs. out putting at 760 dpi, it seems to hit the wall at around 20x24 on smaller formats and a little larger than 16x20 from 8x10 scans.

I restart my computer after three scans. For the moment I scanning everything in both LAB and Gray to explore the files and boundaries.

I have not played with the CMYK scans yet, there is no RGB option sadly, let me know how color scans go if you go down that road.

It seems to be a very nice scanner, and I am just starting to learn how it reacts, I think it will provide us with many satisfying scans over the next few years. :)

There is another LFPF member running a Topaz on an old Mac in Austria.

Allen




I have a Heildelberg_Linotype-Hell Topaz 2 scaner. Is connected to a G4 Mac running 0S 9.2.2. Linocolor 6.0.12 is not saving my scans. I can do all the adjustments but once I want to save the TIFF scan the machines stays in a constant saving cycle. I changed the location it will save and it freezes when I do this any suggestions. I already found the Silverfast software, but spending $2500.00 on software when I'm just doing a scan every two months is not worth it to me. I just want this software to run as smooth as it was before. When is on I get one of the best scans I can buy from a flatbed. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

[Allen in Montreal]

Ivan,

Have you managed to progress at all?
One aggravation is that you are never sure what it will deliver, my last scan was a 40x32 at 720 dpi output from a 4x5. Not bad, but it is still a little inconsistent.

[permafrost]

I'm picking up a Linotype-Hell Topaz Scanner for $125 next week. Is this a good price for this industrial oldies? It looks like the first generation, 6000 pixel CCD. It seems to have optical zooming capability, doesn't it? Can anyone share info about it? How good is this scanner in term of resolution, color etc?

thanks
rob

[permafrost]

Giday Rob...
I just collected a Topaz scanner, I see you got the machine to run. I'd be grateful for any advice. The machine powers up but it will not scan, one error is the reflection bulb yet it seems to light up. I read somewhere there is a cheap alternative for the NEC bulbs, does anyone know what that might be???

I am also concerned the machine might still have some part of the scanning carriage locked down, as it makes some strange noises... I did remove the two scres in the back area of the scanner holding the carriage. All and any information would be most appreciated.
Thanks Raoul

[permafrost]

Hello Ivan

I just got a Topaz and have some issues, I can't get the machine to scan, I have no manual and hence are asking people for advice. I am not certain the topaz is fully unlocked, I did follow the posted instructions in any earlier blog on unlocking the carriage, but the machine makes some very strange noises, hence my concern. I get an error stating the reflector bulb needs replacing. I read on a blog there is a cheap alternative to the NEC bulb. If you have any advice on using the scanner I would be most grateful...

You might be interested to know I have run Lino color on a G5 Tower running classic... the software runs perfectly. Till I get the machine to run I can't say the two will work but I can't see why not.

I look forward to any advice...
cheers
Raoul

[Asher Kelman]

Giday Rob...
I just collected a Topaz scanner, I see you got the machine to run. I'd be grateful for any advice. The machine powers up but it will not scan, one error is the reflection bulb yet it seems to light up. I read somewhere there is a cheap alternative for the NEC bulbs, does anyone know what that might be???

I am also concerned the machine might still have some part of the scanning carriage locked down, as it makes some strange noises... I did remove the two scres in the back area of the scanner holding the carriage. All and any information would be most appreciated.
Thanks Raoul

Raoul, Rob and anyone else in the know! Are you still using your topaz scanners.

I too collected a Topaz II today with a G3 machine, a wonderful Radius CRT Monitor and nearly killing two movers, got the 330 lb monster to my studio, removing 4 doors on the way!

Did you work out the way to check whether or not the scanner glass and CCD are locked down. I myself couldn't find the place where one could get any Allen wrench screw in to secure those two narrow metal plates. The directions are so unclear! i ended up wedging cloth and paper to keep the glass from moving and just prayed for the CCD!

Any details on this would be appreciated.

Asher

[Asher Kelman]

Where are the Topaz users? Speak up! We need you!

Asher :)

[Hunterprint]

I have a Topaz II fully operational with Linocolor 6 on a G4 OS 9 and NewColor on a G4 OS 10.1. I also have 2 incomplete working models, a Topaz I and a Topaz II which I have for spare parts if anybody requires anything. The NewColor is very good software and a lot better than Linocolor 6 in my opinion. I also have a Screen Cezanne Elite and an ICG350i. The Topaz consistently produces better quality scans. Picture 1 is an unretouched Topaz II scan from a 5x4 ICG test transparency, original scan available on request. Picture 2 is a Topaz II scan of a 6 x 4 prescreened postcard unretouched. Picture 3 is the same scan from a Screen Cezanne Elite unretouched.

[Joerg Krusche]

hello,

I heard positive opinions on Newcolor 7000 .. 16 bit etc .. which is the newest OS on G4/G5 ?? that could work with Topaz/Newcolor 7000 ?
best,

joerg








I have a Topaz II fully operational with Linocolor 6 on a G4 OS 9 and NewColor on a G4 OS 10.1. I also have 2 incomplete working models, a Topaz I and a Topaz II which I have for spare parts if anybody requires anything. The NewColor is very good software and a lot better than Linocolor 6 in my opinion. I also have a Screen Cezanne Elite and an ICG350i. The Topaz consistently produces better quality scans. Picture 1 is an unretouched Topaz II scan from a 5x4 ICG test transparency, original scan available on request. Picture 2 is a Topaz II scan of a 6 x 4 prescreened postcard unretouched. Picture 3 is the same scan from a Screen Cezanne Elite unretouched.

[Hunterprint]

10.1 is the newest that works. Runs on a single processor G4. Really does produce excellent results with very little effort. Silverfast I did not like when I tried the demo version, for me it is preferable to buy a cheap older Mac and SCSI board and install an old system to run Linocolor or Newcolor.