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View Full Version : 80mm SSXL: Is It Safe?



Lazybones
3-Feb-2007, 17:25
So I read in these threads (here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=9823&highlight=80mm), and here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=15123&highlight=80mm)) about a strange ring of fog appearing inside the 80mm SSXL, and a possible pattern in that the retail origin of the defective lenses is Badger Graphic.

Problem is, I want to buy this lens, and I want to buy it from Badger. Has this problem been rectified? Anyone not have a horror story about 80mm SSXLs from Badger?

Bruce Watson
3-Feb-2007, 17:53
My copy is excellent. Nice and sharp wide open. No fog, no "Schneideritis," no problems of any kind. Well, there is the problem of my living in an area without the wide open vistas with which this lens really excells... ;-)

I highly recommend Badger Graphic Sales. They have always stood behind their sales with me. Always fast and accurate, and very Jeff in particular is very helpful and knowledgable about all things LF.

Scott Rosenberg
3-Feb-2007, 17:57
i've had one for a few years. it's always performed brilliantly for me - no issues of any kind. i bought mine from Jim at Midwest Photo Exchange and would suggest strongly you give him a call. if you don't already know jim, he's a gem to deal with and will always make things right if you don't feel they are.

Peter Lewin
3-Feb-2007, 17:58
I just purchased an 80XL from Badger. Before purchasing, I asked Jeff (who as many others have posted, provides excellent service and advice) that very question. He said that Schneider resolved the problem a while ago, and that the lenses currently for sale were produced after the problem (he said it had to do with the cement used in gluing the elements) was resolved. As we speak, my first negatives exposed with the lens are in the washer!

Richard Wasserman
3-Feb-2007, 18:16
I have had one for about 6 months, although purchased from MPEX, and it's perfect. It's also a great lens.

Ralph Barker
3-Feb-2007, 19:55
Can folks who have newer, post-fix lenses, as well as those who had problem lenses post the first few digits of their serial numbers? That way, we could collectively arrive at safe and un-safe/questionable serial number ranges.

Scott Rosenberg
3-Feb-2007, 21:01
No issues: SN 14900140

Brian Ellis
3-Feb-2007, 22:05
I bought one around 2004 and sold it in 2006 so I no longer have the serial number. I'm also not sure that I bought it from Badger but it's hard for me to see how a retailer who's selling the lens in its original packaging could be creating the problems others have mentioned. FWIW I had no problems with it at all, it was a great lens. I sold it only because I wasn't using it much and had a lot of money tied up in it.

Capocheny
3-Feb-2007, 23:28
...it's hard for me to see how a retailer who's selling the lens in its original packaging could be creating the problems others have mentioned.

Brian,

I have to agree 100% with you... it's not as if Badger Graphics had/has any influence on the quality control process of the manufacturer. They're simply the retailer of the good in question!

But, for whatever reason, they've been unduly linked to the problem(s) in question with this particular lens.

Cheers

Ralph Barker
4-Feb-2007, 10:11
True. The problem was with the early batch of lenses, not with Badger. They just happened to sell more of them than some other venders, apparently. I've not heard of any cases where Badger didn't handle the issue properly for their customer's benefit, however.

naturephoto1
4-Feb-2007, 10:15
Ralph,

That is true, however, there is certainly a major concern about buying one of these lenses used. The price on the lens just recently jumped I believe through Schneider USA about $500. :eek: :(

Rich

Brian K
4-Feb-2007, 12:09
I also recently bought an 80 SSXL from Badger and it looks fine to me. I have yet to test it though but from all outside appearances it's perfect.

Lazybones
4-Feb-2007, 12:28
Thanks for all the replies, everyone! I will proceed as planned.

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to insinuate anything about Badger. Hell, I just ordered a lens from him a few weeks ago...

Baxter Bradford
4-Feb-2007, 13:50
Having established that the lenses are all performing well. I would like to enquire from the respondants how many are using the ND centre spot filter? The price is not insignificant.

I recently bought one of these lenses, love the sharpness and contrast ( and weight/size) but am experiencing noticeable fall-off (with Velvia 50) if I use rear tilt and some front drop.

Scott Rosenberg
4-Feb-2007, 13:52
i use the center filter when i shoot color chromes... for black and white, it's mixed - sometimes i like a little fall-off and therefore intentionally DON'T use the filter.

Eric Leppanen
4-Feb-2007, 13:59
...I would like to enquire from the respondants how many are using the ND centre spot filter?I almost always use the CF when shooting chrome film, and sometimes use it with color neg or B&W film when applying significant movements.

Do a search of the archives and you'll find a lot of threads discussing this subject, such as this one: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=11228&highlight=super+symmar+center+filter

naturephoto1
4-Feb-2007, 14:00
Having established that the lenses are all performing well. I would like to enquire from the respondants how many are using the ND centre spot filter? The price is not insignificant.

I recently bought one of these lenses, love the sharpness and contrast ( and weight/size) but am experiencing noticeable fall-off (with Velvia 50) if I use rear tilt and some front drop.

Hi Baxter,

Though I have resisted purchasing this lens, as you know, I have had communications with other photographers that have had and those that presently have the lens and they have found the light fall off with transparencies objectionable enought to use the Center filter. I believe that Robert Teague has not found this to be an issue, but maybe he will check in on this question. It is also not beyond the realm of possibility that some of the lenses will have a little more light fall off than others.

Rich

Ralph Barker
4-Feb-2007, 14:13
. . . there is certainly a major concern about buying one of these lenses used. . . .

That's true, Rich. That's why I was hoping folks would post good/bad serial numbers for the benefit of others buying on the used market.

Bruce Watson
4-Feb-2007, 14:20
I would like to enquire from the respondants how many are using the ND centre spot filter?

I'm not. Don't even own one. I've never seen significant fall off. Here's an example (http://www.achromaticarts.com/big_image.php?path=sequoia&img_num=2) using the 80mm with significant front rise. No fall off that I can see.

naturephoto1
4-Feb-2007, 14:24
That's true, Rich. That's why I was hoping folks would post good/bad serial numbers for the benefit of others buying on the used market.

Ralph,

I agree, but additionally, I would have some concern about purchasing a used lens that was made after the date of the "fix" only to find the problem appear and neither Schneider, Germany, or Schneider USA stand behind the product. That is a real reason why I have been really gun shy for purchasing one of these lenses used. Additionally, since Badger and MPEX are selling at least some of the lenses as "Gray" I am still a little concerned if the problem arises afer say a year or more after the purchase of one of these lenses from these 2 sources. On the other hand, though at about $2,040 for a Schneider USA warrantied lens, Schneider USA will at least give a lifetime warranty on the lens. To say the least, this is an expensive 4 X 5 lens.

Rich

naturephoto1
4-Feb-2007, 14:30
Hi Bruce,

What film was used for the image that you have referenced?

Thanks.

Rich

Bruce Watson
4-Feb-2007, 14:51
Hi Bruce,

What film was used for the image that you have referenced?

160PortraVC. The subject brightness range was fairly large. There's a good bit of shadow detail allowing one to see into the dark parts of the woods although you can't really tell that from a small image on the web.

I've made a 150cm long print of this (about 12x enlargement). The print is very sharp, but then I didn't have any depth of field issues and could shoot at f/16 (IIRC). All I'm saying is that the 80mm SS-XL is quite a nice lens.

Baxter Bradford
4-Feb-2007, 15:27
Many thanks for the link. Sorry, I wasn't wanting to hijack the thread.

roteague
4-Feb-2007, 15:59
I have the 80mm XL lens, and have found it to be a great lens, very sharp, with good contrast.

Unfortunately, my lens has the haze problem others are reporting here. I purchased mine a little less than a year ago from B&H. According to the Schneider chart, the lens is from sometime after April 2000, which doesn't tell me a whole lot. But, it seems quite obvious that the lens was made before the fix. However, I have not found this to be a real issue, nor have I noticed any problems with any of the images because of it.

To answer your question about the center filter, I use mine almost all the time. But, there are times when I don't - mostly when I need to use a polarizing filter (I just don't have one big enough to fit on the CF). From what I've seen with this lens, the drop off is more noticeable at low light levels - like those Baxter (and I) like to photograph in - as well as when using large amounts of movements.

I haven't found the drop off to be a problem in normal, daylight type of shooting. FWIW, Jack Dykinga has a good discussion and illustration in his book "Large Format Nature Photography".

I like the lens quite a bit, but haven't used it as much as I thought I would. However, I'm hoping to add the 110mm XL later this year.

naturephoto1
4-Feb-2007, 16:11
Hi Robert,

You should contact B & H and/or Schneider USA to find out who is going to cover the repair/replacement of the lens. The 1st question is this a US or a Gray Market warranty. If imported by B & H they should have to deal with the problem. If the lens was imported through Schneider USA, then they should take care of the problem for you.

Rich

Lazybones
4-Feb-2007, 16:27
You can find a complete list of serial numbers through the year 2005 here (http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/service/serie.htm). I agree that it would be most beneficial to try and establish which numbers are "safe."

roteague
4-Feb-2007, 19:17
Mine is a USA warranty; I just haven't gotten around to doing anything about it.

Thanks Lazybones for the up to date link. Mine Jan 2004 - Jan 2005 timeframe.

Peter Lewin
4-Feb-2007, 19:51
Further to the serial number timeline: when I purchased my lens from Badger, I was concerned about the production date, since I can't imagine that the inventory on an expensive, "niche item" like the 80XL moves that quickly. But the Schneider inspection certificate packed with the lens showed 29.M.06, and the serial number is consistent with a 2006 production date. What I'm trying to say is that, at least from Badger, when you buy a new 80XL, it really is "new production."

Rakesh Malik
8-Feb-2007, 09:49
I got mine new from Badger last March, and haven't seen any hazing or anything like that on it. It doesn't get a whole lot of use in my photography, but there are times when it's just what the doctor ordered :)

Besides, if you get the lens from good dealer, they'll work with you to get you a new one if necessary should it haze up or something on you.

filmfan45
20-Feb-2007, 09:47
no problem with mine.

Songyun
25-Feb-2007, 09:35
Just curious, how long does it take for the fog showing up on the lens?
I have seen an "older" 80ssxl (manufactured before 2004) didn't see any fog on the front. Doest that mean it is safe for this lens?

Anthony Lewis
23-Mar-2007, 03:47
I had an 80mm SSXL that had the problem severly. It showed up as haze after about six months - was very obviuos. I thought it was fungus and so did the retailer. It was cleaned and then reappeard six months later. As soon as I brougth the problem to the attention of Schneider they replaced the lens immediately. It is the coating on the front inside surface of the front element evaporating. This all goes back to 2002. My replacement is perfect to this day. I doubt that there are any of these faulty lenses around any more. It rendered the lens useless and anyone with the problem would have eventually had to have approached Schneider. They replaced them with no questions asked.

If anyone is buying a 80mm SSXL second hand then I say just look into the lens. If it is clear then the lens is fine and does not suffer from this problem. If it is hazy then don't buy it for anything in the world.