ground glass question

[DrPablo]

I have a Bos-Screen on my 4x5.

I absolutely hate it, it's been a huge impediment to me, and I want to replace it.

Its only plus is that it's brighter than the regular ground glass from my previous camera.

Its downside is that I can only see anything through it from a specific viewing angle, I can't see through it with both eyes at the same time, and I can't see anything through it when I wear my glasses (and I have a trivial prescription). Worse yet, it's a lot harder to focus on it using a loupe than it ever was with the plain old ground glass.

This is surprising to me, because this screen had been very highly recommended to me.

So I need some ideas of what to replace it with, and also where to get it. The websites and stores that sell used LF equipment don't have a ton of 4x5 ground glass replacements.

Thanks.

[Ash]

Satin Snow ;)

[reellis67]

I would recommend Satin Snow. Dave is a nice guy and his glass is very nice.

- Randy

[RichSBV]

Without any doubts whatsoever:

http://www.satinsnowglass.com/

[DrPablo]

Wow, that's really inexpensive too.

It's not finicky about viewing angle?

[Ole Tjugen]

I have one camera with a BosScreen, and four with SatinSnow glass.

I will be replacing the BosScreen fairly soon, but not because the SatinSnow is better - it's because the BosScreen is cracked and I don't want to risk it coming apart at the wrong time!

I'm a bit surprised by your difficulties, and wonder if you have the same problem with all focal lengths? I do find it difficult to use lenses of about 90mm and shorter, but that does not improve substantially with a SatinSnow glass! I wear glasses too (-4 both eyes, and lots of astigmatism), and when I plonk a 240mm lens on the camera the BosScreen lights up like a TV screen!

[David Karp]

I'm a bit surprised by your difficulties, and wonder if you have the same problem with all focal lengths? I do find it difficult to use lenses of about 90mm and shorter, but that does not improve substantially with a SatinSnow glass! I wear glasses too (-4 both eyes, and lots of astigmatism), and when I plonk a 240mm lens on the camera the BosScreen lights up like a TV screen!

I too am surprised. I have a Bosscreen on my monorail, and a GG/fresnel combination on my field camera. My Bosscreen is extremely bright and I have no problem with any viewing angle, except when using my 90 or 75. Then, the problem is the same as with my field camera. This is to be expected with wide lenses. Recently, I pulled out the monorail to test a new lens. It had been a while since I used it, and I was immediately impressed by the brightness and ease of focus with the Bosscreen compared to the GG/fresnel combination on the other camera.

[Dave Parker]

All screens can be finicky about viewing angle, even mine, there is some laws of optics that can't be overcome, but depending on the screen they can be lessened, take into account a Boss is what is called an enhanced viewing screen, where is mine are true ground glass, where our glass is good, is due the fact the screen is evenly ground to a flat surface, and the edges are finished to help with light distribution across the surface and it is very fine grind which also helps in light distribution, but with wide angles, you will still have what is called hot spots, which is created by entry and exit angles of the light rays.. I have not seen a perfect screen, I think ours is one of the tops when it comes to real ground glass. Now both Boss and Maxwell's are awesome screens as well, but they are quite expensive compared to ground glass, but many swear by them and I would say, it all comes down to preference, myself, I don't like fresnel/glass combinations, but many do..

Anyway, if I can help, or if you have anymore questions, feel free to give me a holler.

Dave Parker
Satin Snow Ground Glass

[Michael Graves]

I don't like fresnel/glass combinations, but many do..

I'm with you on that. When I had an accident and broke the GG on my Toyo 810M, I bought one of yours to replace it. The fresnel that was on the Toyo was undamaged, but I decided I liked the focusing better without it than with. My eye doctor suggested it is because I have astigmatism and that the grid on the fresnel created a form of interference for me.

[Eric Woodbury]

The second thing to do to brighten your ground glass is to get a really good darkcloth that keeps out all the stray light, especially that which comes through at the bottom of field cameras.

[DrPablo]

I'm a bit surprised by your difficulties, and wonder if you have the same problem with all focal lengths? I do find it difficult to use lenses of about 90mm and shorter, but that does not improve substantially with a SatinSnow glass! I wear glasses too (-4 both eyes, and lots of astigmatism), and when I plonk a 240mm lens on the camera the BosScreen lights up like a TV screen!

I have 90, 120, 210, and 300mm lenses, and it's not appreciably better or worse with any of them. I was doing some cathedral interior shots with the 90 lately, and it was no better or worse than when I was doing portraits with the 300.

Again, brightness isn't the problem for me. I'd give up the extra brightness of the BosScreen if I could easily see the image with both eyes at the same time, and I could see the image distributed over the whole screen simultaneously. The plain old entry-level ground glass that came with my previous camera was dimmer, but still sufficiently bright. My camera is a monorail, and I have a good darkcloth that I can wrap all the way around, so light leak isn't the issue.

Dave, thanks for the input. I've placed an order for the SatinSnow and I look forward to trying it out.

[naturephoto1]

I too recommend the Satin Snow. I have one in my Linhof Technikardan 45S and will probably get around to calling Dave either tomorrow or Friday to order one for my new Toho Shimo FC-45X.

Rich

[Brian Ellis]

The BosScreen actually isn't brightening your image. It isn't a brightening screen. What it's doing is spreading the image out evenly across the screen. Like some others here, I'm surprised at your problems and wonder if there isn't something wrong with your screen or whether there's some disconnect between your eye glasses and the screen. I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to use it while looking with both eyes. I'm also surprised at your viewing angle problems. Having trouble when looking off axis is a characteristic of a Fresnel screen and the BosScreen isn't a Fresnel. In fact one of its strong features is the ability to view off-axis. Also, you indicate that you have problems using a loupe. Because the BosScreen isn't a Fresnel it's usually much easier to focus using a loupe with it than with Fresnels.

I've used BosScreens on four different cameras, including an 8x10 on a Deardorff. Next to the Maxwell screen the BosScreen was the best as among the various screens I've used which iin addition to Maxwell and BosScreen include a Beattie screen, a Linhof screen, OE Fresnels on two Ebony cameras and a Tachihara, and plain ground glass on several other cameras.

I don't mean to sound like a wise-ass and hope you don't take my question that way but are you sure you have a BosScreen? I ask because the one benefit you describe - brighter image - is a characteristic of Fresnels and isn't a characteristic of a BosScreen. And several of the problems you describe - difficulty viewing off-axis and problems focusing with a loupe - are characteristic of Fresnels which the BosScreen isn't. Also, where did you acquire the screen and who installed it?

[DrPablo]

I don't mean to sound like a wise-ass and hope you don't take my question that way but are you sure you have a BosScreen? I ask because the one benefit you describe - brighter image - is a characteristic of Fresnels and isn't a characteristic of a BosScreen. And several of the problems you describe - difficulty viewing off-axis and problems focusing with a loupe - are characteristic of Fresnels which the BosScreen isn't. Also, where did you acquire the screen and who installed it?

"BosScreen / Holland patent" is printed on the glass itself. I can post a photo of it if you'd like.

I got the screen with the camera, which I bought used. I don't know any more history than that.

Whether or not it's intended to be a brightening screen, it is indeed brighter than the ground glass I used previously.

As far as the glasses and viewing angle, it's exceptionally difficult to see through there with glasses on, but it's pretty bad even without them. I never compose critical scenes with glasses on anymore.

A couple weeks ago I was shooting in a cathedral, and there was important subject matter throughout the frame. I had to constantly move my head around to evaluate the image -- it was so annoying, because I couldn't simply look from place to place, because then the viewing angle became a problem. I had to keep bobbing my head around in circles to inspect the whole thing.

[jmcd]

I have used and enjoyed ground glass from Stephen Shuart, at stephenshuart.net. Most recently, I ordered two sheets with clipped corners this past Tuesday afternoon, and I had them by lunchtime today Friday, shipped from coast to coast.

I would like to try the Satin Snow.

[Capocheny]

I have used and enjoyed ground glass from Stephen Shuart, at stephenshuart.net. Most recently, I ordered two sheets with clipped corners this past Tuesday afternoon, and I had them by lunchtime today Friday, shipped from coast to coast.

I would like to try the Satin Snow.

John,

If you're really happy with the Shuart glass... why change?

I've been using Satin Snow and think they produce a really great product but it takes them quite awhile to produce and ship. I need one for an 8x10 => 5x7 reducing back that's on its way. So, that's why I'm tossing the idea around of trying the Shuart gg that you're recommending.

Are you really, really happy with them? :)

Thanks for your input.

Cheers

[jmcd]

I am happy with the Stephen Shuart ground glass. But, I am no connoisseur when it comes to ground glass—I have never met a ground glass I didn't like, once it was cleaned, anyway. I have used Wisner, Canham, Burke and James, Graphic View II, and so on. They are all different, but they all get the job done, it seems. The glass from Stephen is what I would call good old ground glass. Nothing fancy, but it gets the job done, in regards to composing and focusing. And I have enjoyed his service over the years.

[Dave Parker]

Stephen has glass in stock all the time

His glass is produced differently from our, but I would never say he does not make good ground glass, just his process is different and his grits are different than ours, if I remember right his is mechanically made where is ours is all hand ground, and the couple of pieces of it that I have and have used, is courser than ours.

But as has been said, it gets the job done and you can get it quicker from Stephen than you can from me.

Dave

[Capocheny]

Stephen has glass in stock all the time

His glass is produced differently from our, but I would never say he does not make good ground glass, just his process is different and his grits are different than ours, if I remember right his is mechanically made where is ours is all hand ground, and the couple of pieces of it that I have and have used, is courser than ours.

But as has been said, it gets the job done and you can get it quicker from Stephen than you can from me.

Dave

Hi Dave,

I've always been a big fan of your ground glass and have them in my 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10 cameras. But, I've just picked up an 8x10 => 5x7 reducing back and need to put a great gg into it before I can take it out into the field.

What's your turn-around time these days? :)

Cheers

[Tony Lakin]

Hi
I first heard about Satin Snow G/G on this forum last year and thought it sounded great, as ground glass is difficult to obtain in the UK, I ordered and paid for a piece on the 26th. Sepember 06 I knew from reding the threads on this subject that it would take a while and was prepared to wait, however by the end of November I was getting a little impatient so I Emailed G/G Specialities and asked when I could expect delivery, their responce was that they produced the G/G for overseas customers in batches and that the batch including my order was almost complete. Now we don't nomally see much snow here at Christmas time and Xmas 06 was no different, no snow at all, now January has come and gone still no snow, meybe I'll have to wait till Xmas 07:confused: :mad: :rolleyes:

P.S. I also ordered a sheet of 7x5 in November 06:(

[Dave Parker]

Tony,

Your screens were sent out as promised, if they have not arrived, you should have emailed me and I can check to see what may have happened and if the shipment is lost, so I can replace them, you will get a quicker response by direct email then posting on a forum, I have had quite a few overseas shipments go lost this year and have replaced them, but if I don't know about it, I can't do anything about it.

Please send me a note and we will get it straightened out.

Dave

[Dave Parker]

Tony,

Just as a follow up, both screens were shipped on the 2nd of Dec, 2006, so if they have not shown up, then they have gone lost, I have pulled the orders and will send a replacement shipment this week.

Dave