On 4X5 wooden field camera what function would you like to have?

[Songyun]

front rise/fall,
rear rise,
front base tilt, center tilt
rear base tilt, axis tilt
front / rear shift (Is front shift really necessary?)
front swing,
rear swing
rear focusing
How about front geared rise?
I think if there is axis rear tilt which you can move the axis anywhere in the frame, that might be helpful at least for beginers.

[Ralph Barker]

Yes, all of the above, and weighing in at around 2 pounds. ;)

For me, front and rear base tilts and swings, along with front rise, are sufficient for a folding field camera. Shift is nice (both front and rear), but is more of a studio function, as are geared movements, IMHO.

[steve simmons]

Swing and tilt on the front and rear are basic requirements. All other movements can be created with these movements. Additional movements are nice but not a requirement.

Shift ability, either with direct shift or by using front and rear swings. can be very useful in the field, especially if you are photographing buildings.

steve simmons
www.viewcamera.com

[Vaughn]

front rise/fall,
front center tilt
rear base tilt
front swing,
rear swing

As a landscape photographer, this is what I would like as a minimum.

front shift would be an "extra" that would be nice having, but can live without.

Vaughn

[Michael Graves]

A 5fps motor drive?

Seriously, though. I use front shift enough that I would like that. As Steve pointed out, you can fake that with front and rear swing. But a shift is so much easier.

[roteague]

A metal body would be nice.

[Ken Lee]

Start with a monorail design, which lets you do all movements, with gears. Let it have lots of extension, and let it also be used with very short lenses. Let everything be interchangeable.

Now, make it possible to set up the camera, and knock it down, in only a few seconds. Let all the parts stay together. Let the camera be very light, and let it be very small when it is folded up.

In other words, if you can make an Arca Swiss camera that offers extreme bellows extension, all geared movements, folds down very small, and sets up in immediately - and which is much lighter - then I will be very interested.

Oh - I didn't see DannL's reference to the Burk and James Commercial View. If that camera accepted additional rails, and was light as a feather, and had geared movements, that would be darned close.

[Songyun]

What is the difference between front shift and rear shift? front shift left 5mm should yield the identical result as rear shift right 5mm. Unlike front base tilt forward 10 degree will not have the same effect as rear base tilt backwards 10 degree.


A 5fps motor drive?

Seriously, though. I use front shift enough that I would like that. As Steve pointed out, you can fake that with front and rear swing. But a shift is so much easier.

[Ernest Purdum]

Front and rear shift movements are identical in results, so it is a matter of convenience to have both. If the range of movement is small, you might occasionally run into a situation where you would use both.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Front shift is probably easier to implement and adds less weight on a folding field camera.

The rear standard is heavier and larger than the front standard, so the shift mechanism also has to be larger and heavier to facilitate rear shift without making the camera back unstable. Rear shift also makes the whole package larger, while you can add front shift and still fit the front standard inside a smaller camera body.

Now working against this principle, I generally prefer rear focus to front focus, particularly for close-up and macro work.

So if there is an interest in keeping the camera compact and light, I'd say full movements on the front and maybe rear tilt and swing, which would also let you get some indirect rise/fall/shift when you need more than the front standard allows.

Asymmetric rear tilts and swings? Yeah I like that, if the camera has scales on the front and rear standards so you can transfer the movements from back to front like a Sinar. Floating asymmetric rear tilts and swings? Yeah even better, if it doesn't make the camera too heavy and bulky.

[GPS]

..
Now, make it possible to set up the camera, and knock it down, in only a few seconds. Let all the parts stay together. Let the camera be very light, and let it be very small when it is folded up.

In other words, if you can make an Arca Swiss camera that offers extreme bellows extension, all geared movements, folds down very small, and sets up in immediately - and which is much lighter - then I will be very interested.
...
.

A good point, Ken. Not all the people realize that an Arca Swiss can be transported and used as a field view camera but with much better functions. To set up an AS on a tripod can be done quicker than a wooden field camera - and with all the movements ready to use. The external box for an intelligently packed AS is easy to make, even to find and in such a case you never look back at a wooden beast...

[evan clarke]

A metal monorail 8))..EC

[Gordon Moat]

Basically I have the movements I want on my Shen-Hao HZX45A-II. I don't miss not having front shift, since I like using rear shift. One thing I think would be nice to have would be rear geared focus movement, in combination with front geared focus movement. In other words, two choices for focus in the same camera body. I would also be happy with an accessory item to add onto my Shen-Hao that would allow geared rear focus movement.

The other thing that would be nice would be accessory shoes. One could be used for a viewfinder, and another perhaps to mount a flash or for a different viewfinder position. Of course these are not essential items for beginners, though I would like the added convenience.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

[Robert Oliver]

more bellows draw than just 12"...

[GPS]

..

The other thing that would be nice would be accessory shoes. One could be used for a viewfinder, and another perhaps to mount a flash or for a different viewfinder position.
Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

You can buy the accessory shoe from Fotoman for next to nothing. They will be pleased to serve you.

[Songyun]

Well, not everyone can afford Arca Swiss.
I guess that front rear shift combined with rear swing can give floating axis swing.

[MIke Sherck]

More bellows draw is my #1 interest. 12 to 14 inches (300mm-360mm) isn't enough. 20" (508mm) would be perfect. 18" (458mm) would be acceptable. Other than that,
front rise/fall
front axis tilt
front swing
rear tilt (axis tilt perfect, base tilt acceptable)
rear swing
rear rise/fall is convenient but not absolutely necessary to me

Mike

[reellis67]

I've got two Koronas (4x5 and 8x10) that have nice movements for what I need:

front rise/fall, tilt, shift, swing
rear tilt, swing
Plenty of bellows and fairly light weight

That may not be enough for everyone, but it does the trick for me...

- Randy

[walter23]

Shift ability, either with direct shift or by using front and rear swings. can be very useful in the field, especially if you are photographing buildings.


I use shift very often to either fine tune composition without moving the tripod, or decouple composition from perspective & point of view. I think it's a vital function and I'm pretty glad I ended up getting a shen hao instead of a tachihara because of this. Yes, it could be reproduced with swings, but sometimes I get things focused up and then realize I want to shift a tiny bit for compositional reasons.

[Oren Grad]

Front rise (lots of it!), rear swing and tilt are enough. That's all my 6.5x8.5 Eastman No. 2 has, and I seem to get by just fine with it. Oh yes, it has both front and rear focus, but I could live with only one or the other.

If I were allowed a modern convenience, I'd add front tilt, either base or axis. Indeed, I don't think I'd buy a brand new camera without. But I don't need it.

It's not necessary to have a camera that can twist into a pretzel.

[Songyun]

So for longer bellow draw, and rear geared focusing. The 3-section wood camera (like ebony sv) will work. I would like to have a geared front rise, front center tilt maybe not as necessary.

[Gordon Moat]

I think the Ebony SV45Ti has a nice focusing arrangement, though my thought on front and rear focusing was to separate the two more. In other words, the front focus on the side and the back focus on the rear. The rear focus I thought looked like a really nice solution was the slightly off centre knob on the newest Shen-Hao 5x7 camera. Combine something like that with a more regular front focus, and increase versatiliy. The rear focus could then have finer gearing to allow finer focus adjustment, compared to if it used the same geared track as a front focus then all you would do is allow position changes.

I don't see much advantage on a field camera of gearing other movements. Lots of things being geared would add quite a bit of weight. If I really wanted lots of gearing, and I think some people might agree on this, then it might be better to just take along a monorail.

I think the Arca Swiss Misura would make a nice field camera. However, I think they missed an opportunity of not providing carrying equipment for all the other items one needs to shoot 4x5. The packaging idea is a great design, but looses some practicality in not fitting in well with all the other items that need to be carried to actually use a Misura on location.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

[David A. Goldfarb]

The old Linhof Tech II managed to have geared front rise and shift and still be a relatively light, compact, metal field camera. No front swings, though, as I recall, and the front tilt was like on a Graphic in that it only tilted back so you would have to drop the bed and raise the lens to get a forward tilt, then tilt back to adjust, or do an indirect tilt by tilting the camera and tilting the back to plumb (it has the same style back as a modern Technika).

[Songyun]

I think the Ebony SV45Ti has a nice focusing arrangement, though my thought on front and rear focusing was to separate the two more. In other words, the front focus on the side and the back focus on the rear. The rear focus I thought looked like a really nice solution was the slightly off centre knob on the newest Shen-Hao 5x7 camera. Combine something like that with a more regular front focus, and increase versatiliy. The rear focus could then have finer gearing to allow finer focus adjustment, compared to if it used the same geared track as a front focus then all you would do is allow position changes.

I don't see much advantage on a field camera of gearing other movements. Lots of things being geared would add quite a bit of weight. If I really wanted lots of gearing, and I think some people might agree on this, then it might be better to just take along a monorail.

I think the Arca Swiss Misura would make a nice field camera. However, I think they missed an opportunity of not providing carrying equipment for all the other items one needs to shoot 4x5. The packaging idea is a great design, but looses some practicality in not fitting in well with all the other items that need to be carried to actually use a Misura on location.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)
After seeing misura, I think I would like to have 141 F-classic/metric instead. If I want to shoot 4X5, I had to carry other items.
But F-classic has no geared movement, F metric stand has geared shift, while the frame has geared rise, but no geared tilt or swing.

[wistarf]

It's not necessary to have a camera that can twist into a pretzel.

Unless you also want to do architectural photography.

[Ole Tjugen]

The Misura has the same weakness as the Carbon Infinity: A nice fitted case, with no spare room. The CI has everything a field camera could possibly have (and then some), but the nifty leather case doesn't have an extra pocket for four or five film holders.
As long as you have only one lens the camera can be closed in its shell with a smallish one inside. But as anyone who has been on this forum for a while will know, I tend to take more lenses than film with me! As long as I insist on bringing 90/120/135/150/180/210/240/300/355 lenses on every trip, I need an extra case anyway...

Back to wooden cameras: I don't have a 4x5" wooden camera. I do however have a 5x7" wooden field camera, which is what I would actually prefer: It's not much bigger than a 4x5", but has longer bellows and more movements. The weight difference between a 4x5" and a 5x7" is in most cases negligible, since there is a limit to how small the structural bits can be made without becoming unstable. Mine has front rise/fall and tilt; and rear swing and tilt. In 90% of the cases that's enough for me. The last 10% of the time I really would like a front swing, but that's only because I sometimes like to use reverse tilt and swing to isolate elements of the scene. I don't need any more than I have on the rear for "ordinary" reasons.

Come to that - one of my other cameras is a classic old German plate camera of the "Reisekamera" type: Solid front with rise and shift on the lensboard, and about 10 degrees each of tilt and swing on the rear. In 90% of the cases, that's enough as well. The added benefit of this is that the front standard is very solid, and holds my heaviest lenses without protest!

[GPS]

The Misura has the same weakness as the Carbon Infinity: A nice fitted case, with no spare room. The CI has everything a field camera could possibly have (and then some), but the nifty leather case doesn't have an extra pocket for four or five film holders. ...

A plenty could be said about this topic. The ideal, it seems to me, would be a modular case. Imagine the self cased camera (Misura, Carbon) to which you could attach yet another case (with a choice of different sizes and shapes) for the other paraphernalia. It could even have one side missing, as that would already be present on camera case. It is possible to make such a case in DIY style but professionally looking would be even better. Unfortunately, it's a field ignored by manufacturers.

[Bill_1856]

Nota.

[Frank Petronio]

More movements = more play and slop and weight, at least with wooden cameras.

[Ash]

I think mine has everything but rear rise/fall.

both front and rear have shift/swing/tilt I think, with front having rise/fall as well

[neil poulsen]

Check the archives on this. There've been a few threads on the same question.