Which 4x5 darkcloth to avoid fogging?

[walter23]

My biggest issue right now with my T-shirt tube darkcloth solutions is fogging of the ground glass. I live in a cold climate, and I also seem to exhale a lot of H2O, so what commercially available darkcloth would be best? I don't want it to be too heavy.

I envision something made out of breathable but not too dusty/fibrous fabric, with a bungee or whatever cord to cinch it up around the back of the camera, and velcro to open / close it on the bottom. What dark cloth would this be?

I've only read about these things online. There aren't really any stores around me that cater to LF weirdos, so I must order blind.

Breathable is top priority, above darkness or anything else.

[Brian Ellis]

When you say "breathable," do you mean something that will allow you to continue looking at the ground glass while you breathe and not fog up the ground glass in cold or humid weather? I'm not sure there is such a thing made, maybe others know more than I do though.

With that possible exception you've otherwise described the BTZS hood - light and small, cinches around the camera back with elastic, velcro to open and close it. I've used them for years and like them a lot. In cold or humid weather I stay under the hood but when I need to exhale I look down through the opening at the bottom, then inhale and look back up at the screen while holding my breath. Much better than having to get in and out from inside a tee shirt to breathe but maybe not what you have in mind with "breathable."

[Capocheny]

Hi Walter,

I heard the weather in Calgary isn't all that cold these days! ONLY -7 degrees??? :)

I use one of the lightweight Calumet dark cloths and it has a velcro stripping around one end of the cloth. This goes around the camera and I gather it in such a way that I can hold the cloth closed at the bottom AND this leaves my nose and mouth on the outside. This way, I can breathe comfortably and not worry about the fogging...

Of course, we get more rain out here than anything else. Mind you... we did get a pile of "the white stuff" back a few weeks ago! The above method also worked for me while shooting in Banff a few years ago.

Secondly, there's a glass coating material that helps prevent fogging... accessible from a place like Speedy Auto Glass or Home Hardware. :)

Cheers

[walter23]

Capocheny: At least in Calgary's snow you can lay down your pack and setup without getting muddy. Out here in Victoria (I'm on vacation / family visit) I've been shooting my digital SLR mainly because I can pull it out quickly in between rain bursts, and everywhere I want to set up my 4x5 is too muddy! I can't imagine how any of you in Vancouver survive the rainy months.

Anyway I guess I'll order a BTZS. The blackjackets look slick but I'm not sure you can open them up and I think opening the bottom is what I need, which my T-shirts don't do.

[John Kasaian]

As has been mentioned many times before---try a snorkel. ;)

[Walter Calahan]

Put an anti-fogging agent on your groundglass. No amount of "breathable" fabric will help when you exhale directly onto a cold groundglass.

Exhaling through one's nose helps since the air is directed down. But I find working quickly with a loupe while holding my breath is the best solution. When composing, I keep my face as far back from the groundglass as possible.

I tend NOT to use my BTZS in the cold because the elastic closes one end too tightly around the groundglass so the air I exhale is trapped. In the winter, I use a more traditional darkcloth because it is looser letting the air escape more easily.

If you're really into having lots of stuff, skip the snorkel and go directly to SCUBA gear. HA!:D

[Alan Rabe]

You might try "rainX" on the ground glass to prevent fogging. I haven'y used it but I don't have this problem.

[gregstidham]

I have one of those Calumet cloths with the velcro closure at one end and it works good. Otherwise, if you know someone that sews, buy some Gortex type cloth and sew a velcro strip along one edge. Not sure if this would solve your trouble however.

My solution is to hold my breath when using a lupe for focusing and when I need to take a breath I look down and away from the ground glass. Not sure if RainX would work, it never did on my windsheild. :)

[Mark McCarvill]

Have you tried working without a dark cloth? I find that, even at F8, I can easily see where the edges of the image should be. And then the loupe blocks out light wherever I'm fine focusing. Plus, a dark cloth is one more thing to carry, set up, etc.

Mark

[RichardRitter]

I Velcro a clear sheet onto the ground glass frame and let that take all the fogging from my breathing. Being clear I can focus and compose the image. When I am done and ready to take the photo I remove the clear plastic sheet and do a final check of the focus. The clear sheet has rain x on it and the frost just whips off.

[Jim Rhoades]

I was going to stay away from this thread, but Walter brought it up so blame him. As any SCUBA diver can tell you the best "Anti-fogging agent" is spit.

Not that I spit on the back of my cameras, I just hold my breath then exhale down, like Brian. I too use the BTZS after seeing his a few years back.

[Capocheny]

Capocheny: At least in Calgary's snow you can lay down your pack and setup without getting muddy. Out here in Victoria (I'm on vacation / family visit) I've been shooting my digital SLR mainly because I can pull it out quickly in between rain bursts, and everywhere I want to set up my 4x5 is too muddy! I can't imagine how any of you in Vancouver survive the rainy months.

Anyway I guess I'll order a BTZS. The blackjackets look slick but I'm not sure you can open them up and I think opening the bottom is what I need, which my T-shirts don't do.

Hi Walter,

I have a piece of heavy, waterproof fabric that I can lay on the ground and this is what my pack sits on. Alternatively, it can also be used to cover the camera during a heavy rainfall. I've only had to use it a few times. :)

Yup, a snorkel would also work considering it's the warm air being exhaled that will fog up your ground glass. I'm sure it would work fine... but it's just a bit...! :)

Cheers

[Ron Bose]

Gore-Tex !!

[Keith S. Walklet]

Actually Ron, the marketing term "breatheable" applied to Gore-Tex and many other outdoor gear fabrics is a misconception. A better term would be "permeable" as it is actually water vapor (perspiration) permeating through a rubber membrane that the manufacturers are talking about.

A true breatheable fabric like cotton is uncoated and the degree to which it is breathable will affect its light blocking abilities. Loosely woven fabric will breathe very well, but have poor light blocking abilities. Conversely, tightly woven fabric will block light very well, but also restricts the movement of air and moisture.

All dark cloths that I have ever seen or used result in some degree of fogging of the ground glass in cold conditions. Tube-style cloths exacerbate this issue since they trap the exhaled air in the vicinity of the ground glass. So Brian's solution of holding his breath is what I do, although in my case, I exhale out a sleeve of my cloth. I rarely have frost on my ground glass.

I thought I'd found a product at the Outdoor Retailer Show last year that would minimize and possibly completely eliminate the issue, but it didn't work as I had expected. In the end, I think the trick is to either redirect the air with a snorkel, or put something on the ground glass to keep it from fogging.

[stompyq]

I have a Blackjacket hybrid. It does not stop my GG from fogging up but it's much much better than the old T shirt i was using. With the T shirt one look at the GG and it was all fogged up. Now at least i have some time to compose and focus before the GG gets fooged up

[Jeffrey Sipress]

Try an electric blanket.

[Steve Hamley]

Better yet, try Pentax Clear Vue anti fog cleaning fluid, or if you don't want to bother finding it, rub any dry (or moist) soap on the GG, let it dry and buff it off with a dry cloth. Soap is an anti-fog agent. Gelatin soap is good.

I'm surprised no one mentioned it yet.

Steve

[Capocheny]

Try an electric blanket.

And, don't forget a looooooooooooooooong extension cord when you're out in the field! :)

Cheers

[Capocheny]

Better yet, try Pentax Clear Vue anti fog cleaning fluid, or if you don't want to bother finding it, rub any dry (or moist) soap on the GG, let it dry and buff it off with a dry cloth. Soap is an anti-fog agent. Gelatin soap is good.

I'm surprised no one mentioned it yet.

Steve

Hi Steve,

The idea of using soap is a great idea... I'll have to give that one a try! I should have remembered that one from my chemistry days! :>0

Mind you, living here in Vancouver with all the rain we've been getting, we'll be getting "tiny bubbles!" :)

Thanks for the idea.

Cheers

[brook]

If its really cold, dont even fight it, just carry a little windshield scraper, and use a big heavy darkcloth around you to warm up.

God I miss cold winters.

[walter23]

Better yet, try Pentax Clear Vue anti fog cleaning fluid, or if you don't want to bother finding it, rub any dry (or moist) soap on the GG, let it dry and buff it off with a dry cloth. Soap is an anti-fog agent. Gelatin soap is good.

I'm surprised no one mentioned it yet.

Steve

Well, one problem is that in severe conditions the rear element of my lens also fogs up as the humidity seeps in around the cut corners of the ground glass. Antifogging my lens is out of the question obviously ;)

[Frank Petronio]

This is why a folding focusing hood and a long loupe work so well...

[Alan Davenport]

The snorkel thing might work. The only other solution is simpler: don't exhale while you're under the darkcloth.