Questions before spending the big bucks on Technika

[Frank Petronio]

Hi -- Okay, I'm getting pretty close to spending some big bucks on a Technika and have a few questions:

1. I've had Tech IVs before but never set them up for rangefinder focusing. Several people have cautioned me to get a V or Master so I can interchange lenses with other cameras. But I doubt I will buy a second Technika, nor do I think I'll be buying or sharing many Technika cammed lenses. I want to use the good lenses I already have (which are without cams). So any Technika I buy is making a trip to Marflex for camming anyway...

So why not just get a less expensive IV since I have to pay for camming anyway? The difference of having the V's lever rise is not very important to me, and I don't shoot enough wide angle to care about the Master's top flap.

So why not save $1000 and get a clean IV...?

2. Marflex is not much at email, so -- not holding them to this -- what is the approximate price for camming a lens, including the cam itself? Is it more for a IV camming than a V or later camming?

3. Any idea what they charge for a new 4x5 bellows?

4. How about the leather covering replacement? I know I can do cameraleather.com myself but I always get it slightly crooked...

5. Can I get a Prontor Pro #1 with a 150 Symmar to close up inside? It is about the size of a Copal 1 with a very small 58mm front element.

6. Has the rangefinder improved with the IV - V - Master progression?

7. How does the rangefinder viewing compare with the Crown Graphic's Kahart RF? Is there more relief and is it "nicer" to use?

8. Can I really expect a cammed 150mm lens to focus "wide open" at portrait distances (four feet) like this attachment? Is it that good!? It would be so great if I could do this sort of shot handheld...

9. Does the left-handed grip really help when handholding or is the weight and bulk a trade-off?

10. Is the modern viewfinder any better than the older IV-V finders when used for moderate 135-150 lenses?

11. Is there any consensus on the best all around fresnel for normal (not wide) lenses? I know Brian uses a Maxwell and they have a great rep...

Thanks! Frank

[Bob Salomon]

Hi -- Okay, I'm getting pretty close to spending some big bucks on a Technika and have a few questions:

1. I've had Tech IVs before but never set them up for rangefinder focusing. Several people have cautioned me to get a V or Master so I can interchange lenses with other cameras. But I doubt I will buy a second Technika, nor do I think I'll be buying or sharing many Technika cammed lenses. I want to use the good lenses I already have (which are without cams). So any Technika I buy is making a trip to Marflex for camming anyway...


A IV is pretty old and replacement parts are becoming scarce or non existant for the IV (except when Master parts fit).

"So why not just get a less expensive IV since I have to pay for camming anyway? The difference of having the V's lever rise is not very important to me, and I don't shoot enough wide angle to care about the Master's top flap."

If you have the IV and use a 90mm you will find it very difficult to access the rise knob behind the front standard. The crank is far easier and more convenient

So why not save $1000 and get a clean IV...?

"2. Marflex is not much at email, so -- not holding them to this -- what is the approximate price for camming a lens, including the cam itself? Is it more for a IV camming than a V or later camming?"

Same for aa IV, V and Master.

"3. Any idea what they charge for a new 4x5 bellows? "

Best to call Martin and ask

"4. How about the leather covering replacement? I know I can do cameraleather.com myself but I always get it slightly crooked..."

Only the black covering for the MAster is available today.

"5. Can I get a Prontor Pro #1 with a 150 Symmar to close up inside? It is about the size of a Copal 1 with a very small 58mm front element."

You can't. That fits a flat 1 board only and will stick out to far to close in the camera. The 150 on Copal 0 on the recessed board will close in the camera.

"6. Has the rangefinder improved with the IV - V - Master progression? "

Yes but which improvement are you looking for? A IV is 40 to 50 years old. You could be comparing a rangefinder system in need of cleaning to a current one. And remember the Master was introduced 30 years ago so an old Master may also need a good cleaning.

"7. How does the rangefinder viewing compare with the Crown Graphic's Kahart RF? Is there more relief and is it "nicer" to use?"

We have never had anyone compare them or mention that they liked one over the other. But that would only be since 1980.

"8. Can I really expect a cammed 150mm lens to focus "wide open" at portrait distances (four feet) like this attachment? Is it that good!? It would be so great if I could do this sort of shot handheld..."

Yes but the minimum distance a cam works at is focal length specific. Martin can tell you the minimum distance that can be ground. But a properly ground cam and its matched lens always focus accurately unless there is damage to the lens, the cam or the camera.

"9. Does the left-handed grip really help when handholding or is the weight and bulk a trade-off?"

Why would it be a "trade-off" It gives you a firm, comfortable two handed grip at the very minor cost of a few ounces and a few inches. Otherwise you put your left hand under the bed with your bent wrist bearing the weight.

"10. Is the modern viewfinder any better than the older IV-V finders when used for moderate 135-150 lenses?"

Old finders are not even remotely close and there are no format masks for the old style ones. Old means 25 or 30 years old and older.

"11. Is there any consensus on the best all around fresnel for normal (not wide) lenses? I know Brian uses a Maxwell and they have a great rep... "

The Linhof for all around. The Maxwell has less contrast, is harder to focus accurately with shorter lenses and is a focusing system replacement. Not just a fresnel as the Linhof is. With the Maxwell you also replace the Linhof ground glass screen.

Thanks! Frank

[Oren Grad]

Frank -

I have a Master in Martin's hands now. I bought it a few months back complete with a cammed 150 Sironar-N, thought I would just use it as is. But there were enough nagging little issues with the 25-year-old camera that I spoke with both Bob and Martin for advice, then finally bit the bullet and sent it off for a general overhaul and to have some other lenses cammed while I was at it.

Can't lay my hands on the invoice just now, but my recollection is that camming for the Master is on the order of $250 per lens.

I doubt I'll be doing much hand-holding because the weight is a bit much for me. But before sending the camera to Marflex, I experimented with holding it both with and without the left-handed grip. I found to my surprise that the grip did help, despite the extra weight. I found it awkward to release the shutter with a cable threaded through the grip, though - too much for my weight-bearing hand to do.

The rangefinder was clearer and easier to see than that on the 4x5 Crown I just sold, or on any of the quarter-plate Graphics I still have. But there's lots of variation in the condition of old Kalarts, so YMMV.

The view through the current multifocus finder is great - bright, crisp and clear. But it has a couple of quirks. At the marked focal lengths, the field of view doesn't exactly match what you get on the ground glass. Very easy to fix, though - a few minutes of tinkering will show how much of a fudge factor you need in setting the finder to meet your preferences with whatever lenses you have. Also, at many focal length settings the finder eyepiece tube extends backward to the point that it gets in the way of inserting or removing the film holder when the back is vertical - you need to crank it back in to make room. I haven't used an older finder so can't compare.

I know you like printing out to the border sometimes. Bear in mind that the Technika will clip the far corners of the 4x5 frame ever so slightly with longer focal lengths. I'd previously heard that it starts at 210, but on my camera I found that my 180 Apo-Sironar-S clipped too. It wouldn't be a huge surprise to learn that the Technika was originally designed as a 9x12cm camera and 4x5 was something of an afterthought.

As you make your plans for the camera, allow some extra time. Martin's been intermittently out of commission in recent months. I had the misfortune of having the Master kit come back from its first trip to Marflex with the RF out of adjustment - perhaps something happened to it in shipping. Martin took it back, paid for the shipping for the second trip down, verified the problem and is working on it now. Between the two trips and Martin's own down time, it will end up being more than three months before I finally have the working kit back in hand.

Best to pick up the phone and call Martin with any questions. He's been great about answering mine, always giving good information, being candid about when he doesn't know something, and never trying to sell anything.

[Frank Petronio]

Thanks Oren and Bob.

And for all the junk Bob puts up with, here he his helping me with a purchase that won't be putting any $ in his pocket - that is real costumer support! A class act.

[Oren Grad]

And for all the junk Bob puts up with, here he his helping me with a purchase that won't be putting any $ in his pocket - that is real costumer support! A class act.

Same experience here. Many thanks, Bob - much appreciated!

[Brian Ellis]

I'll respond to the questions you asked with which I have personal experience:

The cost for Marflex to cam a lens was $250 when I inquired a couple years ago. However, they do more than simply cut a cam, they optically set the infinity position and do a couple other things I've now forgotten. They may also provide an infinity stop and/or a distance scale, I'm not sure but obviously they could tell you exactly what they do in addition to simply cutting the cam.

Marflex replaced the bellows on my Technika V about five years ago. The cost then was about $300.

I've probably used more different screens than most people. The ones I've used, from memory, are three BosScreens, an original Linhof screen on a Technikardan, a Beattie screen, an original Deardorff ground glass, original equipment Fresnels on two Ebonys, plain ground glass screens that were on a couple cameras when I bought them, make and vintage unknown, and the original equipment Fresnel on a Tachihara. The only two that I would even consider using again would be the BosScreen and the Maxwell (or the original Deardorff if I had that camera).

The screen on my Technikardan purchased about ten years ago was the worst by a wide margin (it was quickly replaced by a BosScreen at John Sexton's recommendation when I attended one of his workshops). It was dim and the "bright circle in a black surround" effect was so bad with a 90mm lens that it was almost impossible to compose. Bob Salomon thinks they're the best available so perhaps Linhof has made some changes since I owned mine. The Beattie and the various other Fresnels (except the Maxwell) varied. In general they were plenty bright but not easy to focus with a loupe and required that you keep your head pretty much straight on axis in order to see everything. The BosScreen is excellent but its potential problems with extreme heat and cold are well-known though I never encountered any serious problems with mine in Florida heat and never used it in extreme cold.

Maxwell basically provides all the advantages of a plain ground glass (mainly ease of focusing) and of a bright screen (it's a Fresnel but easier to focus and compose than the others I've used). It's particularly good in comparison to other screens I've used with a wide angle lens. I used an 80mm lens with mine and the corners and edges of the screen were essentially just as bright as the center, a remarkable achievement IMHO for a lens that wide. I don't offhand recall anyone who has installed a Maxwell screen having anything bad to say about them (with the possible exception of Bob Salomon above though he doesn't provide us with the basis for the views he expresses).

[Bob Salomon]

Brian,

The experiance was with Maxwell screens installed on cameras that came in for service, sometimes attached to their owners, who could not get sharp focus and thought it was a camera or lens problem. When replaced with a Linhof ground glass and Linhof fresnel the problem went away.

The problem with the Maxwell is insufficient contrast and that prevented the image snapping into and out of sharp focus when focusing a 90 or 75mm with a good 4x loupe.

As for images blacking out on some screens that is a pretty normal result of using most enhanced brightness screens. Since the screens do not increase the amount of light coming into the lens they have to concentrate the light passing through the screen. When that happens they easily black out when the eye is no longer on the optical axis of the lens.

[Frank Petronio]

For what it's worth, I usually just use a plain GG, or one of those Satin Snows, cause fresnels seem like more trouble than benefit. However the fresnels that Arca and Wista use seem to be pretty darn good all-around...

[David A. Goldfarb]

I had the good fortune to pick up a spare Linhof fresnel from a bargain table at a photo store in Hawai'i (the same place that had that 8x10" Linhof TL kit) for $15 once, and it comes in handy for seeing the whole groundglass with ultrawide lenses. I wouldn't focus with the second fresnel in place, but just to see the scene, I sometimes hold it up against the fresnel on the camera, and it works quite well.

As far as the IV vs. V issues. The rise crank is a real improvement over the knob on the IV, which is hard to reach with wide lenses. Realistically, I've only bought one cammed V/MT lens separately from my original kit, which had 4 cammed lenses--there just aren't that many out there on the used market. If you plan to have your own lenses cammed, it makes sense anyway to send the whole kit to Marflex and have a CLA and have the stops and scales set precisely. Aside from the fact that Martin will do it accurately, he can also do things like shim different lenses so they can share one set of stops.

I had a 75/4.5 Grandagon-N cammed in October and the cost for parts just for camming the lens was--$128 for the cam, $22 for the scale, $25 each for the stops. I had a bunch of other things done at the same time, so I'm not sure what the labor charge would be just for camming a lens, and if you were having the camera adjusted, it would depend on the condition of the camera anyway.

The cammed lenses are quite accurate within their focusing range, even at close distances, but I find that with the 75mm it is more critical to be sure it's set up correctly with the front standard right at the infinity stops, and the lens cells screwed in snugly. I usually check the rangefinder quickly against the groundglass when I switch to the 75mm cam.

The current style zoom finder is a real improvement over the old one. If you're patient you can find the rollfilm masks for the old finders used. Masks for the new finders seem to be special order items in general, and they don't come up used often.

[Brian Ellis]

Brian,

The experiance was with Maxwell screens installed on cameras that came in for service, sometimes attached to their owners, who could not get sharp focus and thought it was a camera or lens problem. When replaced with a Linhof ground glass and Linhof fresnel the problem went away.

The problem with the Maxwell is insufficient contrast and that prevented the image snapping into and out of sharp focus when focusing a 90 or 75mm with a good 4x loupe.

As for images blacking out on some screens that is a pretty normal result of using most enhanced brightness screens. Since the screens do not increase the amount of light coming into the lens they have to concentrate the light passing through the screen. When that happens they easily black out when the eye is no longer on the optical axis of the lens.


If someone can't get a sharp focus with a Maxwell screen then they either got a bad screen (which I've never heard of anyone getting) or they didn't install it properly. Installation of a Maxwell screen in a Technika isn't a simple matter of removing the old screen and dropping the Maxwell into its place. You have to carefully follow the detailed instructions that Maxwell provides, which among other things involves replacing the Linhof screws and Linhof shims with screws and shims that Maxwell provides for the Technika. The first time I tried it I messed it up because I didn't read the instructions carefully. And unless the owners of the cameras sent to you for service included the instructions and the replacement shims and screws (which seems unlikely since you indicate they thought the problem was with their camera, not the screen) you wouldn't have been able to properly install the screen (which would also explain why the problem went away when you installed a Linhof screen since you obviously know how to do that). So that would be my guess as to the reason for the "sharp focus" problem with the Maxwell screens you've seen from customers. Too many people have raved about their Maxwell screens for me to think there's some inherent defect that prevents users of Maxwell screens from getting a sharp focus.

I use a 4x loupe and I've used an 80mm lens. I have no trouble at all in getting the image to "snap" into focus on the Maxwell screen. In fact that's one of its best features compared to other Fresnels I've used.

Blacking out when your head moves away from the lens axis is, as you say, a problem common to all Fresnels in varying degrees. However, it seems to be less of a problem with the Maxwell than with other Fresnels I've used. And the Linhof screen in my Technikardan was so dim that I had to move my head up, down, and all around the screen with a 90mm lens to see different portions of the image since it was impossible to see the entire image at one time with that screen and a 90mm lens. In that respect it was worse than any Fresnel I've used.

I certainly respect your high regard for the products you sell and your knowledge of them. But you're the first person in my memory who has had anything bad to say about Maxwell screens. Most people whose comments I've seen here and elsewhere who use Maxwell screens have had only good things to say about them. I'm sure if you did a search here and on other forums for the word "Maxwell" you'd see the kinds of comments I have in mind.

[Dean Jones]

Hi Frank....I bought a Master kit a few years back, it is a great camera. The later finder is streets ahead of the early model, even if a little more expensive. The rangefinder has rather small windows, makes it difficult to work fast if you`re wearing specs I find.
I purchased cams separately and had quite luck at matching them.
You can check the accuracy yourself with a GG at various distances, before shelling out $250 a time.

I have a spare 90mm cam if you plan on using an Angulon.
Condition of the bellows is usually the main problem with older Techs, as well as seized lockers on the rear standard caused by overtightening.

Linhof leatherette isn`t a problem to replace if you`re handy, you can buy sheets of Linhof style stuff from Micro-Tools (Fargo Enterprises in Vacaville CA)...just make patterns from paper first. I completely recovered mine as it looked slightly shabby.

The camera is difficult to hand hold without the grip, even go for twins, (left and right).
The Tech gets a bit unwieldy if you rack out the beds with a long lens, so best to keep it under 300mm for hand held use. My outfit is pictured here somewhere......
Cheers.

[stompyq]

This is outside the original posters question (sorry frank) but, DEAN JONES? in Australia? You didn't play cricket for Australia did you?

[Scott Whitford]

My Tech V closes up just fine with a 150 Symmar on a flat lensboard. Not a Prontor shutter, though. My shutter's labeled Linhof, but I suspect it's a Compur.

I use the left-hand grip and rangefinder to do hand-held portraits quite often, even without a viewfinder. Takes some guesswork initially, but you'll be able to frame quite accurately with some practice. Focusing with the rangefinder is amazingly accurate, even at f5.6.

I find it very liberating to use this camera hand held. I can get sharp negatives all the way down to 1/30 of a second. The mass of the machine makes it very steady.

I replaced the stock Linhof GG with a Satin Snow. It's significantly brighter.

Scott

[David A. Goldfarb]

Also, about the ergo grip--it works for me, and my left wrist is a bit weak from a fracture and subsequent surgery a few years ago. You have to adjust the angle so you can hold your wrist straight with the camera in the shooting position. I hold the camera with my left hand on the grip and my right palm face up under the bed with the heel of my hand partially supporting the base and my thumb and index fingers available for focusing. I carry the camera on a strap to take the weight off my wrist between shots.

It does make it harder to find a case that works with the grip attached. I have an old Perrin leather case made for press cameras that's perfect, but usually I use the Crumpler FuxDeluxe, which is more comfortable to carry, and I don't have to worry about messing up the leather.

I have yet to find a case that works with both the grip and the finder attached, so I sometimes just carry the camera over my shoulder from the strap with a fanny pack for an extra lens or two, cams and whatnot, and a couple of Grafmatics or rollfilm if I'm using a rollfilm back, and my Gossen Digisix meter in my pocket.

[Andrew O'Neill]

That reminds me. I have a technica 2000 sitting in a box that has never been used. Maybe I'll try it out as a hand hold camera...

[Neal Shields]

I have the old finder and have compaired it to the new style finder and the new finder is better. The old style finder basically crops the image when you change focal lengths and the new one appears to have some sort of zoom optics.

However, I do have an optical mask that fits my old finder to widen it to 75mm from the normal minimum 90

I also have two completely different 90mm lenses, both Linhof and both cammed. I have held the cams together and they are identical. I suspect that for all but the most critical shots (in which case you wouldn't be hand holding anyway) a cam is a cam is a cam.

I have both a 4 and a 5 and really like the geared rise. (I have the 70 mm Biogon and unless you overtighten the friction lock on the rise, it sinks slowly into the sunset with the Biogon. With the geared rise you can lock it in place. I suspect you aren't supposed to though.)

I also have the hand grip and like it for handling the camera, even if only to take it out of the case and place it on a tripod.

Last time I used my Technica hand held, I pulled a muscle in my shoulder and it took about 3 months to heal.

I have lots of Graflex press cameras in my collection and don't see a noticable difference in the Graflex and Linhof range finders.

Having said all that, and actually having the choice, any hand held 4x5 I do in the future will be with a Crown Graphic, not a Linhof.

I re-leathered my 5 and in most cases the leather fits in a recess and is very easy to get in correctly.

[Oren Grad]

I carry the camera on a strap to take the weight off my wrist between shots.

David - What kind of strap are you using, and how do you have it attached to the camera with the grip on board as well? Are you just using what would otherwise be the anchors for the wrist strap?

[David A. Goldfarb]

David - What kind of strap are you using, and how do you have it attached to the camera with the grip on board as well? Are you just using what would otherwise be the anchors for the wrist strap?

I should have specified--that's a neck strap, and I use the neck strap lugs on top of the camera. I've used a few different kinds.

For about a year I used a Calumet strap--the big one (but not the luggage strap) with the air cushioned neckpad. It was very comfortable, but it actually failed when I was using it frequently last summer, so I'm not using that one again. The neoprene separated from the leather piece that is sewn onto the webbing that attaches to the camera, but fortunately the piping along the edges didn't separate, and I was holding the camera so it didn't come crashing to the pavement.

Lately I've been using a Tamrac strap with a suede pad. It had two little pockets for CF cards, which I just cut off. For safety's sake I'll probably replace this one after a year, too.

I'm thinking of just having one of the local leather shops make something of my own design at some point.

[Steve Hamley]

Actually I have experienced what Bob's speaking about with Maxwell screens and posted here and on APUG. I replaced an Ebony screen with the Maxwell, and while it is brighter and less grainy, it did not "pop" into focus as the Ebony screen does. I ended up selling the Maxwell.

Now that's not to say it was a bad screen or a bad product. Certainly it is far superior to a plain ground glass. I also believe that focusing screen opinions depend on the individual using them - grain bothers some people, others want the brightest image regardless of other attributes, and so on.

Steve

[Brian Ellis]

Actually I have experienced what Bob's speaking about with Maxwell screens and posted here and on APUG. I replaced an Ebony screen with the Maxwell, and while it is brighter and less grainy, it did not "pop" into focus as the Ebony screen does. I ended up selling the Maxwell.

Now that's not to say it was a bad screen or a bad product. Certainly it is far superior to a plain ground glass. I also believe that focusing screen opinions depend on the individual using them - grain bothers some people, others want the brightest image regardless of other attributes, and so on.

Steve

That's surprising. I thought the "grain" in the Maxwell that's on my Master Technika was a good bit less than in the Fresnels on the two Ebonys I owned. But then I didn't own all the cameras at the same time (fortunately for my bank account) so I couldn't make a direct comparison. I don't know exactly how Maxwell makes his screens but there certainly could be variations from one to the other, perhaps I've just been very fortunate with the one I ended up with.

[archivue]

considering the price for caming a lens, i will go for a V in order to buy generic cam, or to buy second hand lens with theit cam (V or later camera)...
i had a V, and a IV but now prefer the arca swiss Fline 140... but i'm not interest in hand held shooting anyway... how can you shoot hand held when you use movements and F22 ?
the good think with the arca... full movements and one bellow only from 55 to 360 !

[Bob Salomon]

full movements and one bellow only from 55 to 360 !

But the Technika 2000 and 3000 do that with lenses from 35mm to 360! The MT and the V do it with the same range also but need a special focusing adapter for 58 and shorter. The 2000 and 3000 do not need an adapter.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Obviously, you don't shoot handheld with movements in general (maybe a little front rise with a tall building, but otherwise not), but can an Arca-Swiss F-line turn itself into a 4x5" press camera? Can you focus a portrait with the Arca while you have a filmholder in the back and the darkslide pulled, ready to shoot (well, you can if you use the trick of having a string to measure the distance between the tripod and the subject, which I use for 8x10" and 11x14" portraits, but it has its limitations, compared to a coupled rangefinder)?

The attraction of a Tech for me is to have a versatile camera that can function either as a view camera on a tripod or a handheld press camera that shoots 4x5" and various rollfilm formats and focuses accurately at wide apertures and relatively close distances (as close as any other rangefinder camera). While I have cameras that do one thing or another better than the Technika, the Technika makes a nice travel camera, because it's one system that I can use to accomplish a variety of photographic tasks.

[Frank Petronio]

Right, my ideal is shooting people at large apertures and being able to confirm focus with the RF up until the moment of exposure. And also having a general purpose 4x5, sticking to fairly normal-middle focal lengths (maybe 90-240), that is solid and robust enough to hang a Copal 3 shutter on and take a knock or two. And most importantly these days, being able to get the camera and gear into airline-approved carry-on without worrying whether or not I'll squeak it through...

I think there are a lot of great cameras out there but only the Technika does this gracefully, without kludges. And Linhof accomplished all this over fifty years ago...

[Oren Grad]

I should have specified--that's a neck strap, and I use the neck strap lugs on top of the camera.

Ah, without the camera in front of me, I completely forgot about those. :o

Anyway, thanks - some sort of strap that will allow me to keep it around my neck at least for brief periods will be essential to making much use of the Technika on the go. I'll keep an eye out for something that looks strong enough...

[archivue]

But the Technika 2000 and 3000 do that with lenses from 35mm to 360!

what ? rise with a 58 ? noway !

[Frank Petronio]

No, it's not the first choice for architectural photography...

[adrian tyler]

Ah, without the camera in front of me, I completely forgot about those. :o

Anyway, thanks - some sort of strap that will allow me to keep it around my neck at least for brief periods will be essential to making much use of the Technika on the go. I'll keep an eye out for something that looks strong enough...

oren, the hasselblad strap, the thicker one with the rubberised interior works great, take it to a leathercrafter and get them to rivet it closed.