If Alpinist Can So Nice, Why Can't We Have a Quality Magazine?

[Frank Petronio]

So I'm looking through Alpinist magazine and it hits me, "Why isn't there a decent large-format photography magazine with quality reproduction and design? Not to mention excellent content and "heft"?"

[Walter Calahan]

Market forces. If there were as many LF photographers as there are Alpinist, View Camera magazine would be full too. Steve tries his best, but Madison Avenue doesn't come knocking at his door to put jewelry, high-end cars, perfume, and other high dollar ads in his magazine.

[clay harmon]

No kidding. I got the most recent issue in the mail yesterday, and it is incredible. I have been a subscriber from issue one, and they have all been stellar. From what I understand, it is sort of subsidized by the owner/publisher, who was one of the original founders of Red Hat Linux.

But still, the quality of the writing, the reproduction and layout of that magazine are truly world class. What is really funny is that the target audience is mosty dirtbag climbers, who can barely rub two pennies together, and know how to live for a week on the road on twenty dollars. (I used to be one, so I am allowed to say that)This in contrast to a target audience who can drop a couple of grand on camera. Go figure.

[naturephoto1]

Hi Frank,

Maybe we could, but I am not so sure that I would like the subscription price since the magazine costs would be mainly based on the subscriptions and not enough based on the advertising. :eek: :(

Rich

[Struan Gray]

I have often wondered why there is so little good photography writing. Climbing writing can be repetitive and formulaic, yet still interesting enough to read in a magazine every month. Most photography writing is simply dire.

Photography as an activity also lacks the humour that you find in most adventure sports. I don't miss the laddish he-man aspect of that, but the black self-deprecation of much climbing writing doesn't seem to translate into photographic articles. Perhaps it's because in photography everyone has to self-promote so much. Perhaps also, because you do not have to measure yourself against admantine hard reality, so it is easier to preserve and coddle your illusions about yourself.

[Bruce Watson]

So I'm looking through Alpinist magazine and it hits me, "Why isn't there a decent large-format photography magazine with quality reproduction and design? Not to mention excellent content and "heft"?"

It's a free market. You going to give it a go? If you do, please put me on your mailing list so I can buy a subscription.

[Bruce Watson]

I have often wondered why there is so little good photography writing. Climbing writing can be repetitive and formulaic, yet still interesting enough to read in a magazine every month. Most photography writing is simply dire.


If photographers could write, they wouldn't need photography so much.

[Struan Gray]

If photographers could write, they wouldn't need photography so much.

True. But then climbers are not exactly noted for their refined elocution.

[paulr]

I don't think it's market forces. It's the crazy dedication of the editor, Christian Beckwith, and his one very very rich investor.

I met Christian in Jackson Hole a couple of years ago and the first thing out of his mouth was "hi, I'm Christian, do you have a million dollars?"

Aparently their investor had gotten cold feet and was about to pull out. The magazine was bleeding $9000 a day, and they were unable to print the issue that was finished and uploaded. Sadly I didn't have a million dollars so I was no help.

Aparently CB talked the investor into sticking it out for a while, so the magazine
was saved ... but that's what supports it. Subscriptions and sales and advertising
hardly make a dent. I don't think us climbers are all that supportive ... on
the climbing bulletin boards there are always jackasses complaining about how much
alpinist costs. And then there are jackasses like me who let our subscriptions run
out so we can buy film and whisky. And resoles for my climbing shoes.

[Michael Gordon]

True. But then climbers are not exactly noted for their refined elocution.

I think that this is exactly what makes climbing-reading enjoyable.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

I agree with Paul, having been a climber for more than 25 years I can tell you that climbers complain about the exact same things LF photographers do when it comes to "their" publications. It costs to much, the writing stinks, the same climbers are in every issue, the photography sucks, the new format sucks ( some magazines switched to a new format not long ago), etc, etc, etc.

I have not read Alpinist in a while ( same reasons as Paul) but I do remember it is a slick looking magazine. If you think of ALL the photo publications, there is a magazine to fit just about every niche in photography; by and large I think the photoraphy publicaton market does a pretty good job.

[Brian Ellis]

There's plenty of excellent writing based on photography. Anything John Szarkowski writes is usually excellent. Or try the book "Caught in the Act" for some outstanding contemporary fiction that's based on photography. Or "Photography in Print" edited by Vicki Goldberg (bet you didn't know that in 1859 Lewis Carroll wrote about Hiawatha's use of a large format camera). Or read almost anything Walker Evans wrote, he was an excellent writer. Robert Adams comes to mind as someone who's both an excellent photographer and writer. Nancy Newhall was another excellent writer. Those are people who just come to mind quickly, I'm sure there are others who don't come immediately to mind or who I don't know about.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Well, there is _Aperture_ which has pretty high production and editorial quality, if you are willing to meet it halfway. If the content just doesn't interest you, that's another story.

As far as people who write about photography in a more traditional vein, I like A. D. Coleman, Ben Lifson, Mike Johnston, and Roger Hicks, in addition to those mentioned by Brian Ellis.

[Frank Petronio]

"Caught in the Act" for some outstanding contemporary fiction

Which author? I don't readily see it at Amazon but there are several titles named that...

[Gordon Moat]

Funny enough the publication and printing quality of Leica Fotographie International and Leica World are both quite good. The absolute best printing quality I have ever seen in any magazine is a publication out of Detroit called CLEAR. Market is one aspect, though if more well off individuals saw large format cameras as they did Leica cameras, then a finer printing quality might be sustainable; we would see adds for expensive watches, perfumes and clothing instead of dedicated gear advertising.

View Camera has quite nice printing quality for a dedicated publication. I like the quality and selection of images from most months. The level of design of some advertisers ads could be better, and sometimes I feel the layout could be a cleaner design, though in general it reads as a cohesive tome each issue. Compare it to the CommArts photography annual, or the Surface magazine once a year Avant Guardians issue, and you can see a direction to attempt, though that takes more deep pockets advertisers to get there.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

[tim atherton]

Funny enough the publication and printing quality of Leica Fotographie International and Leica World are both quite good. The absolute best printing quality I have ever seen in any magazine is a publication out of Detroit called CLEAR. Market is one aspect, though if more well off individuals saw large format cameras as they did Leica cameras, then a finer printing quality might be sustainable; we would see adds for expensive watches, perfumes and clothing instead of dedicated gear advertising.


A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

Blindspot and Prefix-Photo both have beautiful printing

[evan clarke]

So I'm looking through Alpinist magazine and it hits me, "Why isn't there a decent large-format photography magazine with quality reproduction and design? Not to mention excellent content and "heft"?"


The guy who has stuck his money and life into the LF magazine we have is doing his best.. Cough up some dollars and DO it. If you follow the forums, all you see is people talking about buying cheap used junk instead of new merchandise..no advertisers or manufacturers will be drawn to advertise to or make products for this clientele..EC

[BrianShaw]

Wow Evan, talk about just getting to the point and saying what's on your mine. :)

I agree, even though I went through my phase of buying new equipment years ago and I'm still happy with what some call "cheap and aging 1980's LF crap". I'm focused mostly on buying film these days and, as you say, cheap used junk... but I did spend the $500 on a new meter (as advertized prominently on the back cover of a popular LF magazine) so maybe I'm not as guilty as I think I am.

My personal feeling is that we (the collective "we") should stop beating up the magazine's/editor's and start contributing if "we" don't like what we are seeing published. I know a certain editor has made the offer before and I'll bet he really means it - write a decent article and he'll publish it. I believe that was an honest offer rather than a smart-aleck challenge.

[roteague]

but I did spend the $500 on a new meter (as advertized prominently on the back cover of a popular LF magazine) so maybe I'm not as guilty as I think I am.

How do you like it? I've been thinking about getting one myself.

[PViapiano]

Nobody's mentioned LensWork, unless I missed it.

Absolutely gorgeous printing...and Brooks Jensen's writing transcends the realm of photography into other creative endeavors like music. The LensWork back issue CD is a treasure chest of great writing, just incredible stuff...and portfolio after portfolio of beautiful inspirational images.

[BrianShaw]

How do you like it? I've been thinking about getting one myself.

I like it a lot. I did not previously have a spot meter. It's bulky but the averaging functions and the all-in-one metering is convenient. I did not like the price, but once it was paid I quickly forgot.

[Frank Petronio]

Ah, I wasn't criticizing any particular exsistant magazine. That's a different issue altogether. I love cheap, little photo zines too, like Shots. And sure, the art mags are well done, but 90% of the time their content isn't related to large format.

It just seems ironic that an activity that attracts people so obsessed with visuals and image quality should be so, umm, lacking. Especially since I know there are more than a few "Sugar Daddies" online here who might help get such a vehicle off the ground.

Like mountaineering, I bet there are a lot of "armchair" LF photographers who would buy such a magazine even if they weren't active or expert photographers.

[roteague]

Nobody's mentioned LensWork, unless I missed it.

LensWork is a great magazine. Just a bit flat in the color department. :rolleyes:

[roteague]

I like it a lot. I did not previously have a spot meter. It's bulky but the averaging functions and the all-in-one metering is convenient. I did not like the price, but once it was paid I quickly forgot.


Good deal. I'll probably buy one in the next couple of months. My old meter, partially died in Australia this past October (the inside display no longer works).

[Christopher Perez]

The photo commentary in LensWork is entertaining, thoughtful, and illuminating. For photo periodicals, LensWork is my current favorite (though I enjoy many other publications as well). :)


LensWork is a great magazine. Just a bit flat in the color department. :rolleyes:

[Marko]

It just seems ironic that an activity that attracts people so obsessed with visuals and image quality should be so, umm, lacking.

Well, I guess there's no nice way to say this, and I am not exactly known for being diplomatic anyway, but I find even more ironic, to the point of occassional incomprehension, the fact that most of those same people would choose to present themselves in this day and age with web sites whose technical quality is so lacking, as you put it.

Or perhaps analog would be a fitting term... ;)

[QT Luong]

An alpine ascent on a big mountain is slightly more exciting than a great day of photography. This, in turn, can motivate a few individuals to battle market forces.

[BrianShaw]

An alpine ascent on a big mountain is slightly more exciting than a great day of photography.

Not if the photography is done "Frank-style" :eek:

[Frank Petronio]

LOL, that is Taschen territory ;)

[Eric Biggerstaff]

To rob this thread:

Has anyone been watching that Everest show on Discovery?

[paulr]

Why don't we solve this with a merger?

"View Camera Alpinist"

I would love to hear someone like Steve House lambasting a Russian expedition for using fixed ropes and for bringing nothing larger than a 5x7.

[Oren Grad]

I would love to hear someone like Steve House lambasting a Russian expedition for using fixed ropes and for bringing nothing larger than a 5x7.

When I bought my 300 Caltar II-N out of the used equipment case at one of the Calumet stores, the salesman told me it had been traded in by a regular customer who had used it on an Arca-Swiss 5x7 for some serious mountain photography - Himalayas, I think it was. No wimpy Nikkor-M or Fujinon-C for this guy...

[Brian Ellis]

Which author? I don't readily see it at Amazon but there are several titles named that...

"Caught in the Act" is a collection of photography-based short stories by authors such as Alberto Moravia and Annie Proulx and edited by Barry Munger. ISBN 0-943221-27-7

[Peter Lewin]

Quick reply to Eric's "thread robbing": I've been watching the Everest series, and its the first time I've seen any mountaineering film that really tells me why I've restricted myself to "simple" things like rock climbing in the 'Gunks and more-or-less hiking up Mt. Rainier. I think its been an excellent series so far, and wow, you really can die on those big mountains! (By the way, speaking of lugging large-format cameras, didn't Ed Visteurs lug an iMax movie camera up Everest a few years back?)
As to the original thread, I guess I'm easier to please than many, I really do like View Camera, as well as LensWork. I suspect that if the market was bigger, View Camera would be a monthly, rather than bi-monthly, publication. So I would be very satisfied if VC simply published more frequently, and if each issue had more pages.

[Turner Reich]

Frank I wonder if Weston, Edward, and all of the early photographers were concerned about a quality magazine, or any magazine? Did they even read what little there was? Have we evolved into having to have constant elevated stimulation to inspire us? For me it's probably yes. I enjoy reading and seeing what others are doing and I want it in hi def. as they say. If there wasn't any publications would emerging photogs be asking "what's my style" so often?

tr

[paulr]

Frank I wonder if Weston, Edward, and all of the early photographers were concerned about a quality magazine, or any magazine? tr

They had Camera Work, which might have been the nicest photo magazine ever. Certainly the most important.

Whether they read it or wished for anything better, I don't know. But they were actively fighting to get photography taken seriously as an art medium--and one of the trappings of getting taken seriously is having people write and publish things about what you do.

[David_Senesac]

These days now in the 21st Century, there is a glut of paper media photography magazines covering every angle imaginable. Just go down to your local Barnes & Noble and take a look. And for most of us, 90% of the article subjects have been rehashed over and over year after year. It is of course worst for many of we view camera folks as more than not we have been around the most reading it all. Another issue with the combination of LF and magazines is smaller formats are more suited to display images at a size as they were captured whereas Lf is doomed to various amounts of downsizing. The www internet gives us more communication than magazines ever did although they fall way short with displaying our images due to puny monitor sizes. ...David

[Erik Gould]

Frank I wonder if Weston, Edward, and all of the early photographers were concerned about a quality magazine, or any magazine? Did they even read what little there was? Have we evolved into having to have constant elevated stimulation to inspire us? For me it's probably yes. I enjoy reading and seeing what others are doing and I want it in hi def. as they say. If there wasn't any publications would emerging photogs be asking "what's my style" so often?

tr

Well, as Paul said, they had CameraWork, and when that became a memory they started up Aperture. Adams helped get it off the ground and Minor made it his passion, with CameraWork very much in mind. I think there was always a hunger for good work and to see that work validated in print.

[MJSfoto1956]

Nobody's mentioned LensWork, unless I missed it.

Absolutely gorgeous printing...and Brooks Jensen's writing transcends the realm of photography into other creative endeavors like music. The LensWork back issue CD is a treasure chest of great writing, just incredible stuff...and portfolio after portfolio of beautiful inspirational images.

I agree, Brooks is one of the best writers on photography there is. He is a true inspiration. His early issues were almost entirely WRITING -- very few photos.