Beauty dish output compared to softbox

[Ron Marshall]

I am trying to decide what lighting equipment to purchase. I think I have a fairly good idea, but what I really need is a comparison of the light output of a 22 inch Beauty dish to a 24x36 inch softbox. I realise that this can only be a rough comparison, since much depends on brand, silver versus white etc. etc. But in general, would I get a wider f-stop from a Beauty dish or the softbox?

[Frank Petronio]

All things equal, not that they can be exact, but the dish will be more efficient than a softbox which will be more efficient than an umbrella...

I found a small umbrella can produce similar results to a dish, while being less expensive and FAR more portable. YMMV.

[Ron Marshall]

All things equal, not that they can be exact, but the dish will be more efficient than a softbox which will be more efficient than an umbrella...

I found a small umbrella can produce similar results to a dish, while being less expensive and FAR more portable. YMMV.

Thanks Frank. That was the impression I got from the reading I have done.

I'm not completely sold on the BD, portability is somewhat of an issue for me, but at least if it is more efficient than a SB it is still in the running.

[Frank Petronio]

I used to use large, squarer Chimeras (the Photoflexes fall apart) bit kept getting them smaller and closer to the subject as I got more proficient. And strip banks are great too. A large strip is great for groups of people, etc. wheras the regular large rectangular box just spills extra light around...

Now I don't even use them. But if I was doing a lot of studio/catalog/tabletop they are by far the most useful and versatile (compared to umbrellas and dishes).

I visited a national level still life photographer once -- he didn't use any commercial light modifiers, just multiple sheets of diffusion materials and scrims, like film lighting. Same for a lot of great fashion togs - direct light or bounced off large foamcores. So think/experiment - the beatuty dish had quite a run over the past 5-6 years so now everyone else has one...

[Michael Graves]

All things equal, not that they can be exact, but the dish will be more efficient than a softbox which will be more efficient than an umbrella...

I found a small umbrella can produce similar results to a dish, while being less expensive and FAR more portable. YMMV.

A key difference in quality of light is in the reflections of the light that appear in the eyes. If you look very closely at a portrait lit with an umbrella as a main light, the shape of the umbrella appears as the highlight in the eye. To get a round reflection, use a reflector.

[Oren Grad]

I'm also evaluating options for a possible purchase of lighting equipment, and have been thinking about this stuff.

It seems to me that unless you don't care what your pictures actually look like, you have the question backwards, or at least sideways. Would it not make more sense to decide what light character you need in order to get the type of pictures you want, then figure out which type of modifier produces that character, then figure out how much light output you need from the light source to achieve the desired aperture with the modifier you've selected?

Yes, if you have a tight budget you may find that you can't afford exactly what you'd like. But it ought to be helpful to know just what that is.

[Ron Marshall]

I'm also evaluating options for a possible purchase of lighting equipment, and have been thinking about this stuff.

It seems to me that unless you don't care what your pictures actually look like, you have the question backwards, or at least sideways. Would it not make more sense to decide what light character you need in order to get the type of pictures you want, then figure out which type of modifier produces that character, then figure out how much light output you need from the light source to achieve the desired aperture with the modifier you've selected?

Yes, if you have a tight budget you may find that you can't afford exactly what you'd like. But it ought to be helpful to know just what that is.

I agree completely. I will probably buy an octabox and a Beauty dish. I can visualise uses for both. But the relative efficiency is the key for me now as that will allow me to judge what power of lights to buy.

I will start with one or two monolights and will go with either the Alien Bees 1600 or the White Lightning 3200.

What sort of equipment do you have in mind Oren?

[Dominique Labrosse]

Ron,

The best thing to do is to make your own light modifiers. See the following pdf booklet

http://www.software-cinema.com/page/tinkertubes

Regards,
DL

[Oren Grad]

What sort of equipment do you have in mind Oren?

Well, in terms of light character I know I want a medium softbox for my initial experiments. The problem is that I want to work in larger formats up to 11x14 and I don't want to be stuck always working with razor-thin DOF, which means I need gobs of raw power, which in turn raises issues both of budget and of the electrical capacity of the circuits in my house.

If I were working exclusively in smaller formats, the White Lightning X3200 would be an extremely attractive proposition - it looks like superb value for the money, especially if you don't need the utmost in finesse for hair-splitting color transparency or digital applications. But I'd likely need to run at least a bracketed pair of them into a medium softbox for my purposes, and I'm still not sure (a) whether that would be enough and (b) whether I'd be comfortable having almost 20 pounds of lighting gear (pair of X3200s, bracket, softbox) sitting on top of a stick.

At higher output requirements, the monolights start to become impractical and one has to start looking more at the pack/head kits. One of the things you get with power packs from the more expensive brands is the option of a slow-charge mode that will run more safely within a typical 15-amp household electrical circuit. But making the leap from 2400 ws to 4800 ws is a big problem. You either have to buy one of the handful of high-end 4800 ws packs, which are stratospherically expensive, or you have to double up, whether it's using two complete pack+head combinations, or two packs to drive a bi-tube head; either approach is still very pricey. (No, the Speedotron 4800 ws pack doesn't count, both because it's reputed to be inefficient for its rating, and because its current draw is way beyond what my house's creaky electrical system could tolerate.)

So I'm still not sure what I'm going to do, or even whether I'll be able to do what I want. But what's clear from my homework is that if you're working in smaller formats and don't need so much power, and especially if you're fortunate to have 20-amp circuits in your house or studio, there are excellent choices at many different price points, typically monolights like the White Lightnings at the lower end and extending into pack/head systems as well as the price goes up.

[Ron Marshall]

Oren, your lighting requirements are definately in a different league than mine. The 11x14 negs will be tremendous.

I would like enough power to give me f16 on 4x5. I have taken a few head and shoulders shots and at that magnification, f16 is just what I want. for half or full body I think I should be happy with f11. Probably I will need the WL 3200 to get that from a medium octabox.

[Oren Grad]

Ron, I'll bet you'd do very well with the White Lightnings or Alien Bees. For what you want to do, you may not even need to go to the X3200.

[Capocheny]

Ron, I'll bet you'd do very well with the White Lightnings or Alien Bees. For what you want to do, you may not even need to go to the X3200.

Oren,

You're right... Ron won't need to go to the X3200.

Ron,

Remember, you can always do multiple flashes...

Cheers

[Ron Marshall]

Oren,

You're right... Ron won't need to go to the X3200.

Ron,

Remember, you can always do multiple flashes...

Cheers

Unfortunately I'll be shooting people, so I'll be limited to one pop only.

[Ron Marshall]

Ron, I'll bet you'd do very well with the White Lightnings or Alien Bees. For what you want to do, you may not even need to go to the X3200.

I will initially go with the 1600. If it is not enough I will keep it as a hair/kicker/background light and then go for the 3200.

[Jack Flesher]

One thing the beauty dish does is generate a hotter center, falling off more prominently to the edges; it does this in a far more noticeable fashion than a softbox without the secondary diffusion panel installed. This effect can be further modified by placing a "shower-cap" cover over the dish.

[C. D. Keth]

I visited a national level still life photographer once -- he didn't use any commercial light modifiers, just multiple sheets of diffusion materials and scrims, like film lighting. Same for a lot of great fashion togs - direct light or bounced off large foamcores. So think/experiment - the beatuty dish had quite a run over the past 5-6 years so now everyone else has one...

This makes me feel kind of good inside. I am of the opinion that there are far too many specialized gadget-like lighting implements for still photography. Film lighting has far fewer of those and I've never ran into a situation lighting films where I absolutely HAD to use some special widget.

[algogocom]

I'm also evaluating options for a possible purchase of lighting equipment, and have been thinking about this stuff.

It seems to me that unless you don't care what your pictures actually look like, you have the question backwards, or at least sideways. Would it not make more sense to decide what light character you need in order to get the type of pictures you want, then figure out which type of modifier produces that character, then figure out how much light output you need from the light source to achieve the desired aperture with the modifier you've selected?

Yes, if you have a tight budget you may find that you can't afford exactly what you'd like. But it ought to be helpful to know just what that is.
So great a post and i agree with you competely.
Thank you for your posts and wish you all coming here have a nice time!
Rgds,
http://www.algogo.com
:)