Price of film and paper in the future!

[Gerry Harrison]

Hello, you Gents may find this interesting ..this is the intro for the new FreeStyle photo flyer.

"Dear Creative Photographer,
Recently, I accompanied several members of Freestyle’s senior management team on a whirlwind trip to
Europe, touring the headquarters and manufacturing facilities of several of our key partners such as
Foma, Kentmere, Fotospeed, Ilford, Forte, and Fotokemika. As we met with the top executives of each of
these organizations, we were constantly assured of their support of Freestyle’s commitment to aggressively
work to insure Black and White photography remains alive, available and as affordable as possible.
Unfortunately, we also discussed the problematic issues regarding the rapidly increasing costs involved
in the production of Black and White film and photographic papers, especially petroleum and silver. With
increases in the past 12 months alone of over 40% for petroleum and silver prices that recently are in a
constant state of flux - at times reaching over $15.00 / oz. (a 100%+ increase over last year) - virtually
every manufacturer has been forced to raise their prices significantly. BE ASSURED, HOWEVER, THAT
FREESTYLE IS COMMITTED TO CONTINUE TO DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO MINIMIZE THE EFFECTS OF
THESE PRICE INCREASES ON OUR CUSTOMERS.
While we have been successful in negotiating delays in price increases thru mid-August with many of
our manufacturing partners, several have informed us they must raise prices immediately. I’m sure you
have noticed increases already in effect for some Ilford, Kodak and Fuji products.

[John Kasaian]

Gerry,
The costs are always going to go up. Freestyle to it's credit always offered very good sheet films under the Arista label. HP-5+ and FP-4+ were relabelled Arista until Ilford got in serious trouble. Then we had Fortepan under the Arista .edu banner until Forte started hemorraging. Now we've got Fomapan as Arista.edu Ultra to play with---its only a matter of time before they either go up in price or suffer---but don't worry 'cause 'time' is on your side. 'Time' being that it takes a lot longer to burn through film with a view camera than with a Nikon with a motordrive. I've learned to take my time, look more and shoot less---and trust myself to nail a shot rather than do a lot of bracketing.

Oh, and I've got a freezer loaded with sheet film, paper and a quite a few of rolls of aerial film I can cut down if need be!

[Gerry Harrison]

Oh, and I've got a freezer loaded with sheet film, paper and a quite a few of rolls of aerial film I can cut down if need be!



Me Too!

[Bruce Barlow]

I often find myself with finger on cable release, asking myself if this image is worth the cost of a sheet of film.

Then I remember spending $6 on breakfast, $60 on a motel room, $25 the night before for dinner, and gas driving 8 hours to get there...

Snap.

Film and paper are cheap compared to the opportunity. I can live with price increases, I can't live with lack of availability.

[j.e.simmons]

I've been attempting to be a somewhat serious photographer for more than 30-years. For the entire time, photography has been on the brink of disaster. Fuel prices increasing - silver prices being manipulated - the "good" Ilfobrom no longer made - Varigam no longer made - the original Brilliant no longer made - prices going up. Go read all the back issues of Fred Picker's newsletter - the 70s and 80s were filled with the end of products. Then, guess what? Somebody made something else.

I've decided to respond in two ways. First, I have some glass plate holders with film sleeves. I can use them now with film, and later -after doomsday - with glass plates I make myself. I've also experimented enough with salt prints to know I can always make a print on something.

Second, and I think most important, I've quit worrying about it. The future of film and paper is beyond my ability to control no matter what I do. I buy what I can get and what I can afford.
juan

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

Second, and I think most important, I've quit worrying about it

Exactly! Compared to the expenses one has when taking even a small trip film is still relatively cheap. Go take pics and forget about it........

[kjsphotography]

Exactly! Compared to the expenses one has when taking even a small trip film is still relatively cheap. Go take pics and forget about it........


You hit the nail on the head. In comparrison film is nothing especially when you sell your prints to recoupe the cost...

[Bruce Watson]

Exactly! Compared to the expenses one has when taking even a small trip film is still relatively cheap. Go take pics and forget about it........
Yup. Exactly right.

[Ron Marshall]

A sheet of film is still less than a cup of coffee. Good enough for me. The sky is not falling.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

I'll go out on the limb again:

I just finished testing the Chinesse "ERA 100 PSS" 4x5 film against Tmax TMX100. It is an identical, 1 to 1 replacement for TMX for quality, exposure, development, density, graduation, grain, detail and graduation. Side by side I can not tell the difference besides the film notches. I didn't notice any UV blocker but I don't print on platinum, someone else can test for that. I tried it in D23/carbonate, divided D76/carbonate and HC110 - D. I have not tried it with any pyro developers, I don't normally use them. ERA dislikes potassium bromide as much as Tmax does, don't use any. At $8.00 a box of 25, it cost more in shipping.

If Freestyle is worried about pricing, maybe they should get in touch with the Shantou ERA Limited Corp. in China about being a US distributor. If it does not have the UV blocker coating, and they would sell it in large rolls, maybe the ULF people will buy it all.

Just a thought

[Ron Marshall]

I'll go out on the limb again:

I just finished testing the Chinesse "ERA 100 PSS" 4x5 film against Tmax TMX100. It is an identical, 1 to 1 replacement for TMX for quality, exposure, development, density, graduation, grain, detail and graduation. Side by side I can not tell the difference besides the film notches.


Do they make a 400 ASA film?

[gary892]

I often find myself with finger on cable release, asking myself if this image is worth the cost of a sheet of film.

Then I remember spending $6 on breakfast, $60 on a motel room, $25 the night before for dinner, and gas driving 8 hours to get there...

Snap.

Film and paper are cheap compared to the opportunity. I can live with price increases, I can't live with lack of availability.

Well Said!!!

Gary

[John Bowen]

Yes, unfortunately as volumes go down the cost of film and everything else photographic will only go up. I already miss having Nikon 35mm film cameras available. Oh yea, and I really miss being able to pick up the phone and having a box of Azo at my door in 3-5 days.

I just hope and pray that Kodak and Ilford keep making quality films. I know JandC will be filling a much needed void in the market when they start coating their own films and papers, but nothing compares with Kodak and Ilford Quality Control. I don't think I've ever experienced a sheet or roll of Kodak or Ilford film that had a QC problem. I don't think users of the Eastern European manufacturers can make the same claim.

John

[Joseph O'Neil]

I just hope and pray that Kodak and Ilford keep making quality films. I know JandC will be filling a much needed void in the market when they start coating their own films and papers, but nothing compares with Kodak and Ilford Quality Control. I don't think I've ever experienced a sheet or roll of Kodak or Ilford film that had a QC problem. I don't think users of the Eastern European manufacturers can make the same claim.

John

Yes - exactly. I've used Forte pan 400 out of - Hungary I think. Anyhow, very nice film once you get used to it, but I noticed in the past the place I buy it from has had some Q/C issusesat one point.

Still you never know. I have this past summer bought a couple of items (non-photo related) made in what we would call the former "east Europe" and I notice the quality of these products is very high. At this point, I would not have a problem buying a consumer item mad ein Hungary, Czech Rep., Poland, etc. Considering the quality of Russian optics I have used in the past (binoculars, telescopes, etc), I almost wish the Russians would make - and properly market - some large format lenses.

add to that i just bought 100 sheets of Forte Pan 400 this past summer, I think the future looks good.

The other issue, as I see it, is variety. I use three B&W films - Tri-x, HP5 and Forte Pan 400. Price and and availabity has nothing to do with my choice here - all three are mail order for me. But each film has it's own unique "look" that is not matched or reproduced by any other film. It's that difference in tonality, shoulder to toe response, etc, etc, that makes a film desireable. Depending on the situation and subject matter, I sometimes will shoot a different film. Or, for say one place I am shooting, I might shot it with two or three different films. It is often facinating to see how different each film affects the mood of a shot, and how that mood affects your final print.

Future looks good to me

joe

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Ron,

"Do they make a 400 ASA film?"

I do not know. I just hit the 'buy it now' button on ebay for the goof and was very pleasantly suprised, so I ordered 4 more boxes.

I do know that Kodak invested about $50 million into China plus the technology and training and China has leap-frogged passed Eastern Europe in B&W film. They are making a really fine product. It would be well worth it to J&C, Freestyle and/or Ultrafine to check out a distribution partnership with ERA.

As far as the cost of film and paper:
Is there actually 1 once of silver in a box of 8x10 film???
How much fuel do they use to grind up cow bones for gelatin???

The cost of film is whatever the market will bear, they still make it by the mile and sell it by the inch. I just paid a dealer in Taiwan $8 for a box of film, he bought it for $4-6 from a dealer in China, who bought it for $3-4 for a distributor, who bought it for $1-3 from the factory. So much for the COST of film, it's all mark-up and taxes.

Have a great weekend people.

[Donald Qualls]

I do know that Kodak invested about $50 million into China plus the technology and training and China has leap-frogged passed Eastern Europe in B&W film. They are making a really fine product.

Kodak's investment was with Lucky, and made a huge difference in the quality of Lucky films; the current production SHD 100 and SHD 400 are quite acceptable, and IMO very similar to the Plus-X and Tri-X we used to get in the 1970s. I don't like them quite as well as Foma and Forte, but I like them well enough that I keep some SHD 400, 120 size, in my freezer.


It would be well worth it to J&C, Freestyle and/or Ultrafine to check out a distribution partnership with ERA.

I agree, and I'm confident J&C are keeping an eye on that possibility, but with the investment they must be making in coating their own film, I don't know if they'll be adding more imports to their line very soon -- not to mention that there might potentially be a bias toward European brands, given their product line is prettly closely matched to that of Fotoimpex, their sister company in Germany.