Stacking film developing trays

[cyrus]

I have a lot of 4x5 negs from my last trip using my Polaroid 4x5 conversion, and I Need a quite & effective method of developing them. THe daylight tank isn't doing it. Not enough agitation, uneven development, and now I have had problems with the acufine starting to foam up & create bubbles

Way back when, I remember seeing a cool way of developing 4x5 film:
4 negs were placed separately inside an 8x10 tray that had a handle in the middle and raised areas shaped like a cross that prevented the negs from touching each other so each neg had its own little space in the tray.

This tray had holes on the bottom. It was placed inside another tray that held the developing fluid. THe fluid would seep through the holes of the top tray and would get to the negs, and when the time came to remove the film from the developer, you just lifted the tray using the handle. Then, you inserted it into another tray that had the stop, and then another tray that had the fix etc

Anyone know who made this product?

[David Karp]

I think you can get one from Photographer's Formulary. Also, Summitek makes one.

Or you can build one yourself out of acrylic. I have one made to fit in 11x14 trays that will develope six sheets at once. It works well. Here is a thread where we discussed it a bit. That thread also raises the possibility of developing sheet film in tubes dropped inside of a paint can: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=9438&highlight=slosher

Here is another thread on the subject: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=3340&highlight=slosher

[cyrus]

Yup! THat's the ticket!

400 sheets of film, here I come!

[Bruce Watson]

I have a lot of 4x5 negs from my last trip using my Polaroid 4x5 conversion, and I Need a quite & effective method of developing them. THe daylight tank isn't doing it. Not enough agitation, uneven development, and now I have had problems with the acufine starting to foam up & create bubbles
One thing to consider might be a Jobo 3010 tank with a roller. Ten at a time in daylight, with excellently even development. But continuous agitation.

Another might be an old Nikor sheet film tank. They show up on feeBay fairly often. IIRC, 12 sheets of 5x4 at a time, in daylight, and you agitate just like the smaller 35mm and 120/220 small tanks, which is small tank intermittant agitation.

There's also "slosher" trays that let you develop in trays, usually four sheets of 5x4 at a time, in the dark, but keeps each sheet of film completely separate from the others.

All depends on what you want.

[Donald Qualls]

If you're going to stand in the dark anyway, another option (simpler to build, perhaps less convenient to use) is simple pieces of 1 1/2" plastic pipe, five inches long. With the ends sanded smooth and a little chamfer on the inside of each end, you can easily put a film in and take it out without scratching, and there's no shuffling films or wondering if they've come out of the processing panel in the dark (you won't know until you have the panel in the fixer and turn on the light, probably).

Personally, I found it more effective to get some food containers that substitute nicely for 5x7 trays (for processing 4x5 and 9x12 cm films) and sacrifice enough negatives to learn how to process without scratching (the final trick was to process emulsion down -- all the contact between negative edges and flats is now on the back, where scratches are less likely to be noticeable, but this only works if the tray itself is smooth enough not to scratch). I can process six negatives in 250 ml of working solution (if the developer permits that many; I like high dilutions, and mostly find 4 negatives at a time works better), and the "trays" cost $4 for three at the local supermarket.

[David Karp]

My experience has been that if you make the slosher dividers taller than the tray, then the films do not come out of their compartment during development. This is precisely why I abandoned the Phil Bard processing panel concept and went with a slosher design.

[Louie Powell]

Cyrus -

Here is a picture of one that I made. It does six sheets in my 11x14 trays. I also have one that does two sheets in my 8x10 trays. Whether you can make one that will do four sheets in an 8x10 tray really depends on the dimensions of the tray.

I used standard 0.25" plexiglass from Home Despot. The best adhesive is plexi adhesive - Home Despot doesn't sell this but you can find it at glass shops. Be sure to also buy the applicator - a polyethelene bottle with a syringe-like top. To use, hold the pieces together, and apply a drop of the adhesive at the joint. It will be pulled into the joint by capillary action, and the weld cures in a few seconds. Do it outdoors - the stuff is flamable and the fumes aren't good to breathe.

If you want dimensions, send me a PM.

[David Karp]

Louie's post made me think of this. I used the type of cement that he did for my slosher. The brand and variety I used was Weld-On #3. Robert Zeichner suggested a thicker, more viscous version, Weld-On #16. This comes in its own tube and will make it a little easier to assemble the slosher because the glue sticks to the parts very well. You can apply it to the dividers and then push it into place. I bought a tube of #16 for my next slosher, which will hold 9 sheets. I would do a 16x20 "Super Slosher" but I don't have enough room to lay out all the trays in the bathroom!

[David Karp]

Louie,

That is a beautiful slosher! How did you make the cuts? I am thinking mostly about the slices with the curved radius toward the middle of each compartment, but also about the individual pieces.

I just drilled holes in the base for mine, and scored and broke the acrylic. All of the holes and edges of the breaks required sanding. I also beveled the holes with a file.

For what its worth, it seemed to me as if the cheaper acrylic sheets sold at Home Depot and OSH are a bit more ridgid than the higher-priced Lexan. This helps when you get into 11 x 14 and larger sloshers so they resist flexing when you agitate or remove them from the tray.

[David A. Goldfarb]

When I have a significant volume of 4x5" or 5x7" to process, I use tanks and hangers. You can do a lot this way, and you still can control the development of individual sheets easily by time or inspection. Hangers are quick to load and don't have to dry completely between batches. I haven't tried developing sheets back-to-back in hangers, but I've read that it can be done.

[Louie Powell]

How did you make the cuts? I am thinking mostly about the slices with the curved radius toward the middle of each compartment, but also about the individual pieces.

I just drilled holes in the base for mine, and scored and broke the acrylic. All of the holes and edges of the breaks required sanding. I also beveled the holes with a file.

For what its worth, it seemed to me as if the cheaper acrylic sheets sold at Home Depot and OSH are a bit more ridgid than the higher-priced Lexan. This helps when you get into 11 x 14 and larger sloshers so they resist flexing when you agitate or remove them from the tray.

I used a hole saw to cut the round holes. Then I used a table saw to cut the tangential lines. Easy to do - but you absolutely MUST wear eye protection when cutting acryllic with power tools - to definitely don't want to get the chips in your eyes.

All of the cuts require sanding, but be careful to not distort the edges that are to be glued.

IMO, Lexan is overkill for this application.

By the way, when you use a slosher, you always put the film into the compartments emulsion side up. Even so, you want to make sure that there are no burrs on any of the interior cuts that could scratch the back (non-emulsion side) of the film. Agitation is either by rocking the tray with the slosher inside, or by lifting alternate corners of the slosher and then dropping them back into the solutions.

[David Karp]

Louie,

Yes, I agree, emulsion side up, and Lexan is a waste of money here. (If it had been more rigid, I might have invested the extra money to use it for my 9 sheet slosher, but it is not, so I happily bought the cheap stuff. I seem to alternate between both types of agitation methods, depending on how what I touch first, the tray or the slosher. It doesn't seem to make a difference.

Thanks for the information on the cutting instruments. I will give it a try (with shop glasses over my eyeglasses). Whenever I think of doing something stupid when working with tools I hear my Jr. High shop teacher yelling at me!

[cyrus]

Next stage in the evolution of the slosher: double-decker slosher!

[Donald Qualls]

The traditional way to cut Plexiglas, Lucite, and Lexan is on a table saw. Don't linger in the cut, or the spinning blade will melt the plastic, use a hollow ground blade if possible (for clearance in the kerf), or use a blade with extra set on the teeth. You can also cut this material with a bandsaw (again, keep the cut moving to avoid melting), jigsaw, coping saw, and in thin sheets with a utility knife in multiple passes or with a hot knife.

Question -- how much liquid do you need in an 8x10 tray for a 4-sheet slosher? I'm processing 4-6 sheets in 250 ml right now, in food containers masquerading as 5x7 trays...

[Louie Powell]

Donald -

I use HC-110, dilution H, and mix working solution in 800ml batches. When I started with HC-110, it was for 35mm, and I have a graduate that ihas marks for measuring stock solution for either my one or two roll tank. It is purely a matter of convenience for me to use two of the two-roll measures to make 800 ml of working solution.

The key point is that all of the sheets must be covered by the solution between agitation cycles. I designed my sink bottom to have a slight slope toward the drain, so that means that the solution depth is slightly less on one side of the tray. My experience is that 800ml is sufficient in my 11x14 tray with a six-sheet slosher. Obviously, it's more than enough in an 8x10 tray with the two-sheet version, but dilution H working solution is cheap, and its easier to use to much than to take the time to figure out how little I can get away.

[David Karp]

Donald,

Thanks for the tips on cutting. I was thinking of using my jigsaw for some cuts (I'll get a plastic cutting blade), and a mitre saw. I'll clamp the plastic down good and tight and make sure not to cut too slow.

For developer quantities, I have always tried to follow the Anchell and Troop recommendations. For each 8x10 inches of film: 250ml of undiluted developer, 500ml for diluted developers (D-76 1:1, Rodinal 1:25 - 1:50, FX1, FX2, HC110 1:31 from concentrate, PMK), and 1L for very dilute developers (D-76 1:3, Rodinol 1:100, Fx2 1:1, HC110 1:90 from concentrate). I followed their recommendations when I was using D-76 and X-TOL at 1:1 or 1:3.

If the tray is not big enough, I would go to a bigger tray.

Lately, I use a two bath developer, which I would treat under the A & T suggestions above as undiluted. I usually put around 1L in the tray anyway, just to be sure the film is covered and make for more gentle agitation.