Antelope Canyon in November...

[joolsb]

I've booked an organised photography trip to Bryce and Zion in November but afterwards I'm planning to rent a car and strike out on my own. Tentative plans include the obvious locations (Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, etc.) and also Antelope Canyon. After reading Robert Hitchman's excellent Photograph America guides, I'm having second thoughts about Antelope, given that I'll be there between the 19th and 24th of November.

Does anyone have any experience of shooting at Antelope this late in the year? Is the sun still high enough in the sky at midday to make it worth the effort? And what about alternatives? I'm keen to get to the famous Wahweap Hoodoos but I'm unsure about what to expect in November.

Any advice, pointers, etc., gratefully received...

[Doug Dolde]

The weather should still be pretty good. Don't know about the light in Antelope though. The North Rim of the Grand Canyon will likely be closed by then though.

I think Laurent Martrès books are better than Hitchman's though:

http://www.phototripusa.com/e_guidebooks.html

[Eric Woodbury]

joolsb

That will be a great time of year to see the southwest. I don't know about Antelope. I did go to lower Antelope late one year, but it was before all the tours, etc. and I don't know if you can go where I did. Nonetheless, the biggest problem you will have is to contain your visit to an area that you can 'see'. It is so large and so tempting to go on to the next spot. It is easy to spend your time driving and not photographing. I've been photographing areas out there for 25 years, always thinking I'll get back, but always finding some new spot to spend the days.

If you are in Zion and have extra time, consider walking the Narrows or Angel's Landing, if you weren't already. As you travel east of the Grand Cyn, the upper part outside the park is very pretty. The river crossing above the Grand cyn and below Zion is very nice.

Should the weather turn cold, head south to Organ Pipes Nat Monument or Sedona or Tucson. So much to see and so little time.

Study this website:

http://www.americansouthwest.net/

[joolsb]

Thanks for the replies!

Eric, I'm already coming to the conclusion that trying to fit everything in is just going to be pointless so I'm trying to limit myself a little. It's just not very easy.... ;)

Hiking the Zion Narrows, from everything I've read, is not an easy proposition - especially for someone used to 'soft' European day-hikes (especially here in Switzerland where there's usually a nice mountain restaurant to head for...) - although I might be tempted to try for The Subway.

It looks as if it will be a choice between keeping moving from day to day or spending my time in Page and the surrounding area. Unless anyone has a better idea, of course... :)

[George Stewart]

Lower Antalope Canyon supposedly should be done in the mornings, and therefore may be better with lower angle sunlight. I don't think the lower canyon requires a guide. Try antelopecanyon.com for information and possible reservations on the upper canyon, they're a great tour operator with good flexibility.

If possible, you should rent a 4WD vehicle and cross the Grand Staricase - Escalante National Monument. It's the most direct route from Bryce to Paige. The North entrance can be found in Cannonville Utah. It takes about two hours (not including photography) to cross (to Hwy 89). It’s a rough ride but great photographically. The crossing can be done in almost any vehicle, but I'd recommend 4WD. Also, if the road is even the least bit wet, the crossing should not be attempted. Wet silt is like ice, and the road will be impassable.

[Eric Leppanen]

I strongly second Doug's suggestion that you purchase Laurent Martres' guidebooks Photographing the Southwest. The first volume (southern Utah) is newly revised and a new second volume (Arizona) has just come out (I received mine last week, see http://www.phototripusa.com/swb_20.htm). The second volume contains a separate, updated chapter on Antelope Canyon. Both upper and lower Antelope are certainly worth visiting in November (just watch out for flash floods!) but you won't get the good light beams present earlier in the year (on the other hand, the canyons should be less crowded and the light is softer).

According to Martres, visiting upper Antelope in November may be possible only as part of a group tour (probably not good for LF, unless you can make arrangements to be left alone in the canyon between tours). Lower Antelope can be visited independently and is best photographed in the morning. I strongly suggest you purchase the book, though, as it also gives recommendations for booking tours, lists tour operators, etc. It also lists lots of other photo opportunities in Arizona, and has lots of wonderful color photos.

[Adam Kavalunas]

Not sure about antelope canyon in november. I've never been there that late in the year, but i would suspect that the sun will probably not get high enough in the sky to give you any "light beams", but nonetheless, you should be able to find some nice reflected light plus it is always exhilarating to be there!! If you are thinking that the Zion Narrows will be too difficult for you, then the Subway is probably not an option. Its a much longer and more difficult hike, but its well worth the effort if you do it(best hike i've ever done, well..... tied with coyote buttes!) As far as the wahweap hoodoos, november is definately too late for any direct light. That late in the year the sun is blocked by nearby canyon walls, but of course, its still a very unique place, tread lightly. Another option would be the coyote buttes area. I think in november you have to get your permits in Kanab since the paria contact station closes. It is a lottery, but that late in the year it shouldnt be too bad, and its a great time to be out there. Dont forget coyote buttes south as well. Wow, this went longer than expected. I second Laurent Martres books, well written, and loads of info. Enjoy!!!

Adam

[Adam Kavalunas]

My apologies for restating some of Eric's points, seems he submitted his reply just before mine, great minds think alike!

Adam

[joolsb]

Thanks everyone! Loads of useful info and it's going to take a while to digest it all.

Now the really hard part.... waiting until November. :)

[Ryan Hill]

I recently made a trip through Page and took a tour of upper Antelope. Overall I was impressed, it is a neat place.

I took an 8am tour due to time constraints and there is colors even that early in the day. So even during November you should get some color, even if you do not get the light beams (but maybe not at 8am in Nov). You may need to go closer to noon then, but you will get color.

I took a regular tour from a guide in Page. They drive you out, lead you through it in about 20 minutes and then you have about 20 minutes to wander around. Obviously not long enough. A photographer tour is longer (and closer to noon) and gives you more time and that is the one to go for.

Now, I did a regular tourist tour and if I did that again , I would stop 30 feet in and just start photographing. The canyon is not that long and is all fairly similar. So just set up and photograph. Also, the ends receive good light even early in the day, so they are often good when the rest is still rather dark.

The canyon is on Navajo land. It is about three miles (5km) up a sandy treeless wash. A guide can drive you up this (you cannot) and personally that cost was worth it just for that convienence. I think you can drive up and hire a truck at the gate too, but I went with a guide from Page. If you go on a Page based tour, try to get a "photographer" tour it gets you a longer time and closer to noon.

Lastly tend toward over-exposure on your images. The canyon can be dim, so it is pretty hard to actually overexpose, but you get nice colors.

I say, go for it.

Enjoy.

[joolsb]

Thanks Ryan. I'll bear in mind the point about the photography tour, although outside the tourist season different conditions may well apply. Certainly sounds like Antelope is worth seeing though, even as late as November.

Thanks again for the useful advice everyone. It's all much appreciated!

[scott_6029]

Best times are May / September, the sun getting lower in the horizon in November...but I would try anyway. I went in November and they didn't even open lower antelope...I was friendly to the 'guide' / driver on upper antelope and he let me stay in the the slots for basically as long as I wanted to. Don't bother with a tour. You won't get any light beams, although that isn't necessarily 'the best' anyway...I happen to think the beams are 'overshot' anyway. I would recommend conatacting Jackson Bridges in Page for a photo guided tour. He will take you places you would not find on your own and you will be VERY pleased. Your throughput will increase dramatically, trust me. He knows places, times to be there, etc. I would do this before I spent too much time in Antelope that time of year.

[joolsb]

Thanks Scott. Jackson Bridges was mentioned by Robert Hitchman too, so it sounds like it will be worth getting in touch with him. And thanks for the Antelope Canyon tips!

[Charles]

When you're in Page, don't forget to make a quick trip to Horseshoe Bend...about two or three miles or so below the Glen Canyon Dam, on the Colorado River. It's a spectacular overlook...bring a WIDE lens.

[Alan Rabe]

You seam to have plenty of feedback on Antelope Canyon which is quite nice. But I want to tell about a place on the way to it from Zion and Bryce. As you travel on US 89 between Kaibab UT. and Page AZ. you'll come to the Paria river. This is about 25 miles west of Page. The Paria drains Bryce Canyon and the Kodachrome Basin, it emptys into the Colorado at Lee's Ferry AZ. Just past the river on 89 there is a right turn, on your right you will see a ranger station for the Paria Wilderness area. Go inside and ask them how to get to the Wire Bend Pass for Buckskin Gulch. It is backup the road the way you came about 5 miles. The Buckskin Gulch is an 18 mi strecth of winding narrows and grottos that runs east west on the AZ/UT border. You can get to the west end of Buckskin from the ranger station but it is a 5 mile hike with nothing of note to photograph along the way. The Wire Bend pass is a 2 ft wide slot about 50ft long. There is a parking lot about a half mile form it's entrance which is at the end of a wash. The pass will take you to the east end of what I consider one of the most amazing places on earth. It is not a color place like Antelope but is it's B&W equivilant.
Do an internate searh for "Paria Wildernss" you will be able to get all the info you need. You will not be sorry and since your coming so far and will be so near it will be a shame to miss it. Only about 2000 people a year go there so you will probably have it to yourself and November will be a great time for it. It is not an early morning or late evening place. Since it runs east/west the sun has to get up a little before it can lite it up.

[Charles]

Alan Rabe's suggestion regarding Buckskin Gulch is excellent and in the same area you will find Coyote Buttes North and South. The north section is the location of the famous Wave geologic formation. A permit is required and only 20 people per day are allowed in; with 10 permits reserved for walk-in application FOR THE FOLLOWING DAY!

If the northern section of Coyote Buttes is already fully alloted, the southern Coyote Buttes are equally interesting and far less visited, and should not present a problem with permits in November. Permits are available in Nov. from the BLM office in Kanab, Utah.
I find Coyote Buttes and the Paria Wilderness area far more interesting photographically but that is only my personal opinion.

[joolsb]

Thanks guys! Yet more food for thought...

I have been doing a lot of research into the Paria wilderness area and North Coyote Buttes sounds like the place to be but getting the permits may be difficult.

The South CB access road apparently requires not only a 4WD vehicle but a skilled off-road driver too (which I'm not). So I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that getting in touch with Jackson Bridges (assuming he's even available) would pay off big time.

Thanks for all the info, guys! So little time, so many options...

[Alan Rabe]

No permit is needed for the Buckskin Gulch nor a 4WD. A couple miles down a maintained dirt road and a short hike to the pass and you're there. It is a perfect spot for a day hike. If you are interested, the U.S. Geological 7.5 minute topographic map is called West Clark Bench Quadrangle. Buckskin Gulch runs across the bottom of it.

[Alan Rabe]

I thought you might like to see a little of what is in Buckskin. These are a couple of negative scans I have.

[joolsb]

Thanks Alan - it looks great! Will try to check it out if there's any time... problem is, I already have a list long enough to fill several 25 hour days! :)

[David Hedley]

A recent picture from Lower Antelope Canyon:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o205/Shiretoko/IMG_0502BW.jpg

[DavidFisk]

When you're in Page, don't forget to make a quick trip to Horseshoe Bend...about two or three miles or so below the Glen Canyon Dam, on the Colorado River. It's a spectacular overlook...bring a WIDE lens.

And by "wide", this means a 58. A 75 won't get the whole thing in.

[Kirk Keyes]

I find Lower Antelope more interesting. Here's a shot of mine from a few years ago, shot in October:

http://www.keyesphoto.com/Resource/Kdk0019Heart_Slot_500x381.JPG

I suggest planning on getting there around 9 am and staying until 2 or so. The light is constantly changing and different parts of the canyon are illuminated at different times.

[joolsb]

When I was there in November last year, Lower Antelope was closed for the season due to the dangerous state of the ladders after recent flashfloods. Pity, really. Upper Antelope was amazing but crowded at times.

[Eric Leppanen]

I also visited Antelope in November, and could also only visit Upper Antelope due to the ladder problem. The crowd situation is becoming more challenging photographically than the canyon itself. Many good shots (the corkscrew, etc.) involve shooting up at or near the top of the canyon, so LF is feasible even with the crowds (although the canyon is so narrow in spots that even one photographer blocks the canyon, and you'll have impatient people waiting for you to finish your time exposures). However, if you want to get light beam shots during the spring and summer months, then shooting LF may be all but impossible. One light beam occurred during my November visit, and once it started there was a mad scramble of photographers jostling for position, the flashes of their point-and-shoot cameras repeatedly going off (even though the guides request that you not use flash). Setting up an LF camera on a tripod, let alone making time exposures, was absolutely impossible under such circumstances. Given that prime light beam season is much more crowded than November, I suspect that shooting digital may be the only way to photograph, not because of the canyon, but because of the crowds.

The owners of the canyons are nice people, and they (and the guides they've hired or contract out to) did a good job in my brief experience. However, the canyons are of course an income source for them in a geographic area that is struggling economically, so they are incentivized to fill the canyons up with paying customers as much as possible. Getting a day-long dedicated photographer's tour (available for something like $180 or so) might be a bit better, but I am concerned that so many tours are going on that there will virtually never be a time when the canyons are empty, especially when light beams are present.

Film-wise, color shooters may want to consider color neg rather than chrome. I shot Provia 100F (Fatali shot his famous images with Velvia so I figured what the heck) and ended up using exposures in the 30 second to one-minute range, and the lighting was so extreme that the film really couldn't capture everything. Plus there was little time for exposure bracketing due to the crowd situation. The more sophisticated digital folks were shooting multiple exposures and planning the blend them in Photoshop.

I may visit Antelope again during light beam season if I can find a guide who can to some extent avoid the crowds, otherwise I'll wait until I get a decent digital capture system.

[joolsb]

Thanks Eric. This was precisely my experience. I was shooting Velvia 50 and had one exposure of around eight minutes with a constant flow of people walking past. Luckily, they didn't stay in one place long enough to register...

I wonder if the answer might be to shoot in the lower canyon? Due to the accessibility issues, I don't think this is anywhere near as popular but I'd welcome the views of somebody who's had the chance of shooting there...

[scott_6029]

The sun is low in horizon, it is not by any means the best time of the year. In fact it is terrible. I would skip it and hire Jackson Bridges (local photog and tour guide) to take you elsewhere, without hesistation.