Kirk Gittings images at Freestyle and thoughts on Freesetyle policy

[domenico Foschi]

I went to Freestyle last week and as I always do when I go there, I visited the gallery room. I was pleased to see 3 beautifully crafted prints of our own Kirk Gittings, and once again I was struck by the work of Pietrzack.
That man manages to inbed his own heart in the paper emulsion like few can.
There where other images worth noting of course, Gilpin and Witherhill come to mind.

Some time ago I sent some attachments to the person in charge of the exhibits at Freestyle for a possible inclusion and he replied that he liked my work but the gallery is reserved only for Advisory Board members work and schools.
My first reaction was :"What a waste of space", but then I thought that at least they are helping young photography students who need to have the Gallery experience.
I just wish the fellows at Freestyle could be a little more inclusive and work more toward Photography and not photographers.

Things are just tough for self tought artists, isn't it?


:mad:

[Walter Calahan]

Their loss, not yours.

Lovely images on your web site.

[Kirk Gittings]

Thanks for mentioning this. I was not aware that the show was still up or that the gallery was exclusively for advisory board members. I will inquire about that and let you know. Maybe the way around this is for Advisory board members to curate shows? I might suggest that to them.

Also it is not final yet, but I think I am having a solo exhibit there in Sept. I will let you know.

[David Karp]

Kirk,

Your images have been up for a long time and are indeed a pleasure to view. Your photos are in a conference room along with some photos by Ray McSavaney (http://www.tgartworks.com/mcsavaney), which are also beautiful. I drop in to take a look at the photos in that room every time I visit Freestyle.

The room where they include the shows and lectures is now filled with work from a variety of photographers.

I hope they do a show of your work in September. I would love to see it in real life.

[Kirk Gittings]

David,
Thanks. I must say in all seriousness, that those are good but not my primo work. When they asked me for those, I was in the middle of two large solo shows, book signings etc. and had very few prints on hand or time to do anymore. That was back in October! Wow, I had no idea they were still up. I was about to ask for them back. The upcoming show will also have silver prints, which I am also low on still but will borrow back from some collectors.

[davidb]

hey dom,
i love the site and the work. what software did you use for the website?

[domenico Foschi]

David, I have no idea.
My skills in website maintenance stop at adding links.
Next time I talk to my webmaster I'll ask him.

[Donald Qualls]

Things are just tough for self tought artists, isn't it?

It's the "outsider effect" at work. No matter how good you are, if you aren't part of "the group", you have an uphill battle to get noticed, accepted, etc. Works the same way with writing, science, invention -- even driving a taxi.

Just makes the outsider work harder, which in the end makes those that do break through the barrier that much better and stronger. In the end, it cuts both ways -- it keeps out people who could advance the art, but it also means those who eventually break through tend to do much better work than they might if things were easier...

[Kirk Gittings]

Some very candid thoughts:

We are all in the end self taught. Getting degrees is about paying your dues and networking, they are not about gaining knowledge. I have learned far more from this forum about photography than in the 6 years I spent in art school.

Nobody starts out an insider. You work at it and cultivate it. I have been working at it since 1970 and I don't feel at all like I have arrived there yet. It might be easier if you are some extraordinary talent. I do not have that good fortune. I make up for it with hard work. For the last three years I have averaged 70 hours a week. This month I am taking my first real vacation since 1978.

I have only personally ever known one overnight sensation, Joel Peter Witkin, who worked relentlessly for 15 years to become an "overnight success".

[Ted Harris]

Well said Kik!!!!!

[PViapiano]

As a sidebar to this great conversation, I have to say that I made my first trip to Freestyle yesterday and couldn't have been more impressed with the store and the staff (I spoke with Norman, who was super friendly).

The wide breadth of items they carry in stock and also the general feel of the retail area is great and I expect to be returning there many times. A much more personal feel than that other more well-known camera store in town.

I missed the gallery, though. Maybe I'll stop by this weekend to have a look...

[Kirk Keyes]

Joel Peter Witkin - "overnight success".

Perhaps "overnight of the dead" success...

[paulr]

I have only personally ever known one overnight sensation, Joel Peter Witkin, who worked relentlessly for 15 years to become an "overnight success".

ha, yeah, that's how it seems to be with overnight successes.

if you meet one of these overnight successes (in art, music, or whatever) and make a typical remark like "wow, you just came out of nowhere!" ... be prepared for some fingers around your throat. they probably busted their ass for most of their life in order to come out of nowhere overnight.

[Daniel Geiger]

Some very candid thoughts:

We are all in the end self taught. Getting degrees is about paying your dues and networking, they are not about gaining knowledge. I have learned far more from this forum about photography than in the 6 years I spent in art school. ".

A German proverb is "Kunst kommt von Können": Art is derived from ability. So there is actually knowledge in art. It is wholeheartedly wrong that spending time in gradschool is only for networking. It may be true that you learn more by yourself than from lectures/labs, but learning and demonstrating the ability to learn by yourself is a critical component of grad school. I can only speak from my own experience in the physical sciences, but I cannot imagine that matters are all that different in the fine arts.

Furthermore, even "odd/ugly" art is derived from a controlled process, not some happy accident. Once you controll that process, you KNOW how to get the desired effect. Whether it is "good" is another matter all together.

Additionally, just 6 years out of grad school, I have seen several times that the people who actually know what they are doing are succeeding, while the folks who only cultivate their networking ability are falling by the way side.

Greetings from the ivory tower ... ;-)

[Kirk Gittings]

Daniel,

Having been associated for over thirty years with the ivory tower, most of that time with two of the leading university schools of photography, I can say with some confidence that there is no direct correlation between ability and success in art.

[JW Dewdney]

Daniel,

Having been associated for over thirty years with the ivory tower, most of that time with two of the leading university schools of photography, I can say with some confidence that there is no direct correlation between ability and success in art.

I couldn't agree more. I've seen TONS of unbelievably talented nosedive because they sucked at self-promotion, or weren't good 'businesspeople'. OTOH, you see lots of really visible garbage out there, right? I'd say there's definitely a correlation between 'success' (as we define it in north america) and 'ambition'.

[JW Dewdney]

Additionally, just 6 years out of grad school, I have seen several times that the people who actually know what they are doing are succeeding, while the folks who only cultivate their networking ability are falling by the way side.

I'd love to believe it.

[Donald Brewster]

Hey Kirk: Nice photo on the Freestyle catalog cover. I guess you are what passes for a LF ingenue?

[Kirk Gittings]

Donald,

"Ingenue-An ingenuous or na["i]ve girl or young woman, or an actress representing such a person."

God, I hope not...........................

[JW Dewdney]

come on, Kirk - you KNOW you're a naïve young lady trapped in a middle aged man's body!

[Andre Noble]

When shopping for selenium toner at Freestyle, I honestly was a little suprised to learn that Kirk printed his Freestyle gallery prints using ink jet pigments.

Heresy!:)

[tim atherton]

When shopping for selenium toner at Freestyle, I honestly was a little suprised to learn that Kirk printed his Freestyle gallery prints using ink jet pigments.

Heresy!:)


Nah - just following Ansel:

"I eagerly await new concepts and processes. I believe that the electronic image will be the next major advance. Such systems will have their own inherent and inescapable structural characteristics, and the artist and functional practitioner will again strive to comprehend and control them."

Forward - The Negative
Ansel Adams,
Carmel, California
March 1981

[Kirk Gittings]

Andre,

I use what ever works best for the image and regularly shift back and forth between silver and archival ink. My last big show was 2/3 ink. The upcoming show at the Creative Center will be almost all silver.

JW,

I am speechless with this train of thought. I am without a clever comeback.

[Donald Brewster]

So you ARE an ingenue!

[Kirk Gittings]

You know I should of brought an 8x10, that 4x5 looks kind of puny next to my large format body.

[Ralph Barker]

You know I should of brought an 8x10, that 4x5 looks kind of puny next to my large format body.
Wait a few years, Kirk. There is a tendency for older LF bodies to turn into ULF panoramics. ;)

[Andre Noble]

Good reply Kirk, besides who am I to be a critic having probably snapped only about 1/300th the number of LF exposures you have in your life. Actually I'm not a critic. It's just that I think darkroom printing is a vital part of the art of photography.

I've tried ink jet printing, but since have tossed most of those prints in the trash.

But for me, there's no 'there' there about them, if you know what I mean.

[Kirk Gittings]

It's just that I think darkroom printing is a vital part of the art of photography.


see also: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=19083


Andre,

I have tossed more than a few too, but probably not as much as test silver prints trying to make a print really sing. Silver and ink sing differently, but each can make great music. For me ink is a problem solver, there are images that for various reasons, I simply could not make work in silver and needed the extraordinary control I get with a file.