cheap 8x10 field camera?

[Emre Yildirim]

Where can I find one? I'm looking for something that is portable, preferrably made out of wood. Or maybe I should ask first: is there such a thing as a cheap 8x10 field camera?

thanks

[John Berry ( Roadkill )]

As long as you don't expect front movements, or a real rigid camera, I think you can get one fairly reasonable. I'm thinking 2D, or something like that. Cheap is a relative word when it comes to 8X10. They are all portable, just some need a truck. ( Just kidding, I know what you mean )

[Emre Yildirim]

I'm thinking about something in the $700 range. Used of course. For the front, I only need rise and fall, but I guess those should come standard. Front tilt would be nice, but I could probably do without. I rarely use front swings. I'm mainly concerned about weight and the dimensions, once the camera is folded up. eBay has a bunch of Deardorff's but they look pretty rough for those prices.

There's a nice 5x7 Canham on eBay right now, but I'm too scared to try 5x7 since I mainly shoot color.

[Michael Graves]

I'm with John. Find an old Eastman 2D. Generally, they run $300, give or take, depending on the condition. And they offer a reasonable amount of bellows extension and front movements. As with any older camera, make sure you have a good idea of bellows condition before buying.

[Steve Hamley]

Anither option is an Agfa Ansco. Models vary with vintage, but prices would run $400 - $600. A Burk and James might be another idea.

Take note though, a lot of cameras this old need some minor (or major) TLC and have missing parts. The biggest "killer" is having to replace a bellows, $250 - 350 is typical, so make sure it has a good one. A 2D with a bad bellows and no extension is a parts camera, going by what you'd have to put in it to fix it up. A sliding tripod block is highly desirable and make sure it isn't missing extension rails, at least if you plan on using longer lenses. Trying to find the block or rail is usually an excercise in futility.

Like 40+ year-old lenses, plan on another couple hundred for a 40+ year old camera for the TLC if you want it to truly work the way its manufacturer indended (not loose, in alignment, doesn't skip teeth on geared rails, etc.).

Steve

[Armin Seeholzer]

Burke & James should be even a bit cheaper I got mine in almost unused condition for 480 USD. It is not a stable as a Dear but it get the job done and it has front swing tilt shift almost more what I ever will need.
Just waiting for an adapter board from Adams at Grimes and then I can use the beast!

[Dan Jolicoeur]

I had my Eye out a few weeks ago, and all the D2's where going for a good bit more than $200-$300. I think there are a few of us looking for them. I finally gave up for awhile. Need to buy heating oil, ouch!

[Emre Yildirim]

I looked at the Burke & James cameras, but find them too heavy. I'm also not sure if you can fold them so they become compact like a Deardorff. Is there a website (other than eBay) that has a up-to-date list of 8x10 cameras for sale somewhere?

[Joe Forks]

If I'm not mistaken you can get color sheet film for 5x7 straight out of Japan. You just have to plan ahead like the ULF guys do. If my source is out-dated then I apologise.

Best
Joe

[Nick_3536]

How much weight are you willing to handle? Weight,cost and stability are traded off. You can build a cheap heavy stable camera. You can build an expensive light stable camera. But a cheap light stable camera is going to be tough.

[Emre Yildirim]

I'm thinking 9-12 lbs is all I can handle. I don't really care how stable the camera is. I'm pretty careful with how I handle my equipment and I use a very sturdy tripod. As long as it's not absolutely flimsy, I'm fine. The important thing is that it can support the lenses that I want to use (probably 150, 240, 300). Compactness is important too, since I want to take it with me when I go hiking. That's also one reason why I didn't want to settle for a cheap monorail. It's amazing how many cheap monorails are up for sale, but barely any folding cameras.

[gfen]

I have a B&J 8x10 Commercial View, and it does fold somewhat, however, having never seen a Deardorff I don't know if its as compact. On the B&H, the extension rail comes off, the front rail folds up, and the front standard and bellows can be moved far enough back so that it becomes a smaller, but far from convient, package.

The camera has full movements, but its definatly a rickety beast. Its not a lightweight, and while it turns heads, its not quite the way I want it to. ;)

All told, I paid, I think, $750 for mine about two years ago, including the extension, 4x5 back, pair of holders, a half box of film and a barrel lens of some vague type. No tripod block, though.

Its definatly fun, but backbreaking to move, and lacks qualities best described as "smooth" or "precise." Without the tripod block, as I invision it, its also more than a little ungainly to move into position... but, there's something satisfying about using it, and it does the job especially when I could justify $800, but not $2000, on a camera.

[Ole Tjugen]

If you can settle for 18x24cm instead of 8x10", one possibility is to get a plate camera. Either an old German one or a newer Russian one - they are very similar and cost about the same. Mine's an old German "Reisekamera" - very stable, compact, portable and so on. I also have a Russian 30x40cm camera of the same design, but wouldn't call that "portable". Not without a car, ar least...

[neil poulsen]

I have a 2D that I got, not only because of it's reasonable cost, but also because if it's reasonable weight. It probably weighs around 11 pounds.

I don't know if I have an original bellows; it's pretty new. But, with any significant rise while the back is in vertical orientation, the top of the bellows just adjacent to the back clips the image a bit. I need to get a custom bellows that will address this issue. There's room for a larger bellows that will solve the problem.

I don't know if this is just my camera, or a 2D idiosyncrasy. Perhaps other 2D owners haven't had this problem. It may be something to ask about, though, before purchase.

In other respects, I like the camera. I get about a two and a half or three inch rise. It has no front swing, tilt, or shift, though. So, no way to tilt both back and front at the same angle to achieve additional rise. Mine has about a 24" draw, which is fine for the 250mm and 355mm lenses that I have for the camera. It folds up onto a compact package, even with the additional front extension. (One wants to make sure they get this extention with the camera.) Back has both tilt and swing; no shift, though.

A lot of excellent photos have been taken with 2D cameras.

[Pete Roody]

Another option is to buy a Deardorff without front swings. They usually sell for under $1000 and thay are better than a Kodak 2D or Ansco for field work.

[Ted Harris]

I’m going to take a look at the other end of the ‘lower priced’ spectrum for you. Cameras that are anything from a few years to twenty years old from Wista or Tachihara, for example, should come close to your price range. Usethe new price of the double extension Tachihara ... 1400 USD ... as a benchmark. Figure that you will generally pay in the range of 70% of new for a used copy in excellent condition and that gives you $980; find one with some cosmetic flaws and it will be very close to your 700 mark. One of these will be approaching your weight range as well. As well as looking on eBay, I ‘d let Jim at Midwest know what you are after so he can keep it on his “want” list, I often do that with a lens or piece of gear I need.

As for 5x7 you should think more seriously about it if you believe it will meet your needs. I am primarily a 5x7 shooter and use Canham 5x7 that is the same model you looked at on eBay (Tuan also uses this model FWIW). BTW, your interst in that particular camera has me a bit confused as it is way out of your stated price range of 700. The current eBay price is now just under 200 which,BTW, is a silly price for this camera used ... you can get it for less used from Midwet or Badger (used ones fromeither of them usually sell in the 1600-1700 range in mint condition). As far as 5x7 film goes planning ahead is indeed the answer. If you look through the archives you will see lots of earlier threads on this. Further, if you go to the View Camera website (www.viewcamera.com) take a look at the table I did on ALL the 5x7 & 13x18 emulsions available. I shoot mostly color too and a lot of that shooting is done with 13x18 as opposed to 5x7 film. Same external dimensions on the holder. 13x18 film is readily available from Nord Foto in Germany and all the other major European suppliers. You have to work a bit harder to get the transparency film you want but virtually every flavor you might need is there with the exception of Astia. You can also cut your own as Tuan does.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Hi there,

Emre Yildirim: sounds like you're looking for an 'Improved Seneca View", black w/chrome version. The dark wood w/brass was the commercial version and heavier. It's positively dainty compared to my Agfa/Ansco and half the weight. Probably the smallest 8X10 ever made and has 30" extension.

Have fun finding one.

[Dean Cookson]

I second the recommendation of calling Jim at Midwest and talking to him about what you want. Their advertised prices are pretty good and he seems to usually sell stuff for below what's printed (I think he makes up the difference in all free advertising he gets from all of us who have had such good experiences). Also, the Canham 5x7 and 4x5 are the same camera. If the emulsion you're looking for isn't available in 5x7 it's likely available in 4x5.

[Brian Ellis]

I've owned a Kodak 2D and two Deardorffs. Each Deardorff cost about $1,500. The Kodak 2D, in mint condition with new bellows and all accessories (back extension and sliding tripod block) ,cost $400. It was very close to being the equal of the Deardorffs in all practical respects except for the lack of front tilt. So I had Richard Ritter add front tilt for $250. You may or may not want to spend the extra $250 but a 2D in excellent condition is a great value for the money I think. However, you have to be careful, a lot of them on ebay are beaters and you want to get one that's been well cared for. You also should make sure it comes with both the back extension and the sliding tripod block. Neither are sold separately very often plus Kodak matched each extension to each camera by number so even if you find one separately it might not work smoothly with your camera. Without the back extension you're limited to using lenses no longer than about 400mm and the sliding tripod block allows you to keep the camera balanced over the tripod head.

[Emre Yildirim]

Ted - I think 5x7 is the ideal format, and it's a real shame that it isn't very popular. I really like the ratio and the size/weight isn't that much more than 4x5. Since I'm intending to print no larger than 50 inches either direction, the 5x7 would've been ideal. But as you said, some transparency film is hard to find in this format. I use Astia a lot, in fact Astia and Velvia are my two primary films.

I just looked at the 8x10 Tachihara this morning. It seems like the ideal camera in terms of flexibility and weight. Too bad that 8x10 Tachiharas are hard to find. I might actually wait and save up for a new one, and order from Adorama. Those Canham cameras are really nice, especially the 8x10 Lightweight, too bad it costs a fortune.

[Randy Becker]

I use a Tachihara 8x10 camera that weighs 9 pounds (+-) and with the 3 lenses I use along with it probably weighs 12 pounds or so in its f64 backpack. I had to strap it on and climb up a painter's scaffold a while back and it wasn't too heavy for that.

(I also own a Tachihara 5x7 and also believe it's one of the best film formats available today.)

Best regards,
Randy

[Capocheny]

Emre,

5x7 transparency film can be readily had from Jeff at Badger Graphics... so, you don't need to order from Japan. I bought Provia from them and I believe Velvia is also available.

Not sure about Astia though...

Jeff shipped mine without ANY problems whatsoever...

And, yes, 5x7 is a wonderful format to use.

When I first considered a 5x7/4x5 Dorff (which I now have).... I also had concerns about film availability and processing. But, it's not been an issue at all. :) Just go for it! :)

Cheers

[John Berry ( Roadkill )]

For that money, I second Peters recommendation. A deardorff with no front swings. It does have front tilt. I use a V-8, and sometimes using back tilt changes the perspective in a negative way. You could get a "driver", not beat up, or a shelf queen for that money. I've never heard of anybody complaining about their Dorff. The stability is well worth the extra weight.

[Joe_6286]

I shoot mostly color and I also switched from 4x5 &8x10 to 5x7. Haven't tried 13x18cm yet like Ted Harris, but so far I'm doing ok with Provia & 160NC. It's such a pleasure to shoot with the aspect ratio that I like. Another vote for the 5x7 Tachihara - 8.5lbs, and although it costs almost the same as an 8x10 ($1295 @ Midwest or Badger), it's smaller, lighter (I think the 8x10s are about 11lbs). Of course, it's carrying the 5x7 film holders that's much easier than the equivalent # of 8x10 holders. New Tachs are very rigid - their recent design has added washers in some places so that everything locks up nice and tight and the woodworking is xlnt. Easy to fold and unfold.

[Deniz]

Selam Emre,

I myself use a double extension 8x10 Tachihara which i love alot.. I would have bought the tripple extension if i had the funds, but i am extremely happy with the one i have.

Before this camera i had a 100 year old Rochester Carlton, which i bought from equinox photography of Oregon.
They have some interesting items for sale.. Just past october there was a camera show in vancouver and they had their stand there again and i bought 4 8x10 film holders and some shutters. They are great people. They also had an 8x10 Deardorff which i think was going for $800.

www.equinoxphotographic.com

If you want to come out here and try out the tachihara, yo uare more than welcomed to.

I bought the Tachi from Adorama btw..

[Emre Yildirim]

Deniz - now I feel stupid. They're right here in town and I didn't even know about it. I asked my photolab here if there was any place that dealt with LF type stuff, and they told me "you might have better luck in Portland".

In any case, I'm probably going to hold up on the 8x10 for a few more months until I finish buying all the lenses I want for my 4x5 gear. After doing much research on the subject, I realized how expensive the switch to 8x10 really would be. I will definitely buy a Tachihara though. The weight and dimensions seem to be perfect. I'm still planning on coming up there sometime in the late spring or summer. I'll stay in contact with you.