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View Full Version : Arca Swiss Monolith -- too big for the field?



Jack Flesher
19-Jan-2006, 22:25
I am curious about this camera. I know it is heavy -- like 12 pounds -- but I'm curious how compact it can fold down to assuming you slip it out of its rail. It sure looks neat, but I'd like to know if it is reasonable to schlep within say a mile or so of my car. If anybody here has or uses one, I'd appreciate comments.

John Banister
20-Jan-2006, 05:17
I'm not sure the word "fold" applies very well. If I was arranging to carry one very far, I'd remove the format frames from the function carriers, which is very easy to do, put both function carriers together at one end of the rail and have three categories (of the camera) to arrange to carry: The function carriers with rail (likely the heaviest part), The format frames with bellows (likely the lightest part), and lenses. If you plan on keeping lenses pre-mounted on lens boards, then you might want to consider keeping them on the smaller 110mm 6x9 lens boards and using the 4x5 to 6x9 reducing board (unless you're using the 6x9 front format frame anyways). If you're ok with the weight, that's the biggest obstacle, I think.

evan clarke
20-Jan-2006, 05:24
Take a look at the new Fmetric w/ orbix and 141mm standards. I own 5 Arcas and this camera has all the abilities and none of the bulk..EC

Steve Hamley
20-Jan-2006, 05:31
Within a mile? Sure. Other people indicate they do the same thing with a Sinar P.

But the question is why would you unless field work is such a small part of your photography that you can't justify a field camera. I've looked at a Monolith in a shop and although it's a nice camera, it certainly wouldn't be my choice for anything beyond "targets of opportunity" outside a studio. I've tried a 5x7 Norma for field work and eventually sold it (occasional regrets) because of the weight and portability issues. So unless your field work is incidental (and it sounds like it really isn't), you're enduring a lot of inconvenience with a studio camera for features which you can't really make full use in the field.

The extra size and weight mean you can't carry as many lenses, and can't go as far for a given "pain" level.

They make field cameras for a reason.

Steve

Frank Petronio
20-Jan-2006, 06:28
But it would look so sexy and high tech on top of your Cube! And you really need brand consistency, it just won't do to mix Toyo and Arca's Jack!

Pete Roody
20-Jan-2006, 07:12
With 8x10 it was too heavy so I use F-line standards. They are small, light and durable. The F standards also make the camera more rigid (less height over the rail). Unless you are doing mostly studio work, I would stick with the F standards (or F-metric if you think you need geared movements).

Christopher Perez
20-Jan-2006, 09:50
How about an F-line with 110mm front standard, 141mm rear, and tapered bellows?

12pounds? Take the 8x10 view camera instead. :-)

I have a similar challenge. I have a 171mm Arca Discovery. It's an absolute 'beaut! It only weighs 6 or 7 pounds. But for me this is still to heavy. For situations where this is the case, I carry an Ikeda Anba that weighs in at 2 3/4pounds.

Arca is the most wonderfully smooth camera system I've ever used. I really wish it were lighter so I could take it with me when I travel on business.

Jack Flesher
20-Jan-2006, 09:57
I figured I would get the "go with the F-Metric/Orbix answer -- and it makes sense. BUT, I can get this Monolith pretty cheap ...

Frank: It is actually partly your fault I am even looking at the Arca! (Along with Kerry, Evan, Jim and the 30 or so other folks here that shoot with the Arca ... ) Heck, maybe I should go with Arca all the way and sell the VX125 (Sorry Scott ;) )

Thanks for the inputs,

Jack Flesher
20-Jan-2006, 10:01
PS: Does the Monolth have the 171mm standards or the 110mm standards?

Frank Petronio
20-Jan-2006, 10:48
They all were 171mm unless you're talking about the 6x9cm 110mm one.

Of course once you get a Monolith then you can buy lots of other parts and build hybrid variations...

Emmanuel BIGLER
20-Jan-2006, 10:59
PS: Does the Monolith have the 171mm standards or the 110mm standards?

Jack. The core of the Arca Swiss Monolith cameras are the function carriers which ... carry, no, which provide all the movements : rise, drop, shift, tilt, swing. Monolith format frames are simply metal frames without any movements on them as opposed to F-classic and F-metric frames providing the vertical shift movement.
So the present Monolith line of function carriers can support whatever frames you need, the 110, the new 141, the 171 or the bigger ones for 5"x7" or 8"x10". You can even attach a F-classic or F-metric frame to a Monolith carrier !!
You just need either a "square" or tapered bellow to connect both standards. Monolith bellows are the same as other Arca Swiss bellows. May be we could mention the extra-flat bag leather bellows #071011 which allows on the Monolith 6x9 the shortest distance between front and rear of all the system to accommodate the shortest focal lengths for digital image capture. Monolith frames can touch each other... so the minimum lens to film distance is something like twice the leather thickness, plus the frame thickness !!
The only bellows sizes that do not exist in the past or present product line are bellows connecting directly 110 to 5"x7" or 8"x10" frames, bellows connecting 141 to 171, and bellows with both ends bigger than 171 ; for all image formats equal or bigger than 4"x5", the front size used to be 171, and still is for the discoveryŽ, now it is 141 for the rest of the line except the 6x9->6x9 in 110 and the "field" 6x9-4"x5" plus 4"x5" misura taking 110 front standards.

Christopher Perez
20-Jan-2006, 11:04
... and if you're getting a Monolith cheaply, buy it regardless of whether it'll work in the field or not. :-)

Jack Flesher
20-Jan-2006, 15:05
DOH! I meant to ask are the Monoliths 171mm or 141mm! I take it by Frank's answer, they are ALL the larger 171's as they come from the factory?

Frank Petronio
20-Jan-2006, 17:01
If I were buying new and not "offf the shelf" from existing stock, then I would order exactly what I want. Like a 141 4x5 rear and a 110 front with either Monolith (not) or F-Metric Orbix standards, and the leather bag and extra loing 70cm bellows. Then more rails, the compendium, and another 141 frame and F standard for longer extensions, etc.

You didn't need that new Mini-Cooper anyway.

e
20-Jan-2006, 17:05
How bout the new Arca-Swiss 8x10 Misura? Slightly over 8 lbs. Due out soon! Emile

Mike Herring
21-Jan-2006, 13:04
I just bought a new 4x5 Monolith from Rod Klukas at PhotoMark in Arizona and it is the finest view camera I have ever used. Rod is the most professional person I have ever dealt with in this crazy business. There is a reason why people from all over the country buy their Arca's from PhotoMark, and the reason is Rod. By the way, I live in New Jersey.
Incidently, we were using a Sinar P2 camera with a Imacon digital back at Mercedes-Benz this week and as good as the Sinar is, I still prefer my Monolith.
The Monolith is also about 3 to $4,000 less than a comparable Sinar P2 or Linhof.
The new Monoliths come with the 141mm standards.

Take care,
Mike

Jack Flesher
21-Jan-2006, 13:55
Mike:

Thanks for the comments. I used to own a P2 and am very familiar with them, however I have never used a Monolith. How would you compare them in terms of size and ease of transport -- IOW is the Monolith easy to fold down for storage in a flat case or backpack? The Sinar P clearly is not.

Mike Herring
21-Jan-2006, 17:48
Jack,
The Monolith will not fold flat in a attache type case. The best thing to do would be to bring the standards as close as possible and then put them on a short rail. You could then get it in a backpack. I would place extra protection around the camera.
I am still looking for the best type of case to use for this camera.

Perhaps one of the other large format guys could help us both with this.

Jack Flesher
21-Jan-2006, 18:35
Precisely what I was thinking --

So what are the rough dimensions of the standards compressed together on one rail? HxWxD (141 and 171 standards)

Rick Koo
22-Jan-2006, 10:33
This may be of limited use to you, but here are the approximate measurements of my 141 Field model, with the smaller front standard:

Height 11.5 in.

Width (across 141 mm frame rise knobs) 7.5 in.

Depth (of folded rail) 6.5 in.

All measurements are with the folding rail collapsed and the function carriers brought together. I would guess that the monolith might be a bit taller, but the width and depth are probably going to remain fixed for the 141 frame size and folding rail. Weight without lens or lensboard is about 5.5 lbs. for the Field and it'll only go up from there.

Rick Koo
22-Jan-2006, 12:03
One more thing about packing the Arca - my preference is to leave the function carriers and standards on one side of the folded rail (the depth of the rail is the tough dimension to accommodate). Lightware makes several cases that will work, but since I like to use a mountaineering backpack, I just drop the camera into a neoprene laptop computer sleeve. It has been all over that way and I haven't had a problem yet.

Jack Flesher
23-Jan-2006, 10:18
Well I know the Monolith weighs about 12 pounds -- which is somewhat problematic to begin with.

With the 171 frames, it is going to be 30mm wider, or about 8.75 inches, which is also problematic in my current packs.

The Monolith standards add 1.5 inces to the height, thouhg using the standard collapsable rail may save about half that in height over the folding rail, assuming the standards are together on one rail and it is separated from the base, getting us to approximately 12.25 inches high. This in and of itself is not too problematic...

But given the width and weight, I think my best option is going to be biting the bullet, buying a new F-Metric with Orbix and just be done with it.

Which brings the next question: What is the shortest lens one can focus on a flat board with the standard bellows and 141 front and rear frames?

Mike Herring
24-Jan-2006, 10:15
Rick,

Will the MONOLITH fit into the neoprene laptop computer sleeve?
The camera is 14.5 H x5 L x8 inches wide when compressed because of the extra large bellows.

Emmanuel BIGLER
24-Jan-2006, 11:22
What is the shortest lens one can focus on a flat board with the standard bellows and 141 front and rear frames?

I do not know the short focal lens specs for the new 141-141 standards but I know from the well-known data sheet (see a copy on this web site) that the apo-grandagon 45 mm focuses on a standard lensboard with the appropriate bellows on the 6x9 and the 4x5" with both 171 standards.

So we can infer that there is no problem focusing a 45 mm on a standard lensboard with 141 frames.
As far as 35mm and shorter are concerned, those lenses do not cover 4x5 so you'll probably prefer to use smaller 6x9 standards. However the 35 will certainly focus on a flat 141 lensboard with a monolith.

To give you an idea, the apo-grandagon 55 on the misura focuses easily with a flat lens board and the bellows allows more than 50mm of vertical shift i.e. much more than the lens will actually cover on 4x5, more than you can actually move on a 6x7cm format !!

Rick Koo
24-Jan-2006, 17:39
To answer Mike's question: I think you could find a neoprene sleeve to fit the Monolith. I actually bought a smaller one for my Field. Best bet would probably be one of the sleeves sized to fit an Apple Mac laptop with the wide aspect ratio screens. A store like Fry's Electronics, if you have one nearby, is a good place to start. So that I am not setting high expectations - it's not pretty, nor is it a bulletproof solution, but I've found it's good enough if I am reasonably careful with the pack into which it goes.

And maybe it goes without saying, but with the dual-tapered (i.e., standard) bellows on the 141mm Field, I have full movements with a 90mm lens on a flat board.

Rory_5244
31-Aug-2006, 09:29
As we're on an Arca vibe of late: would somebody be kind enough to explain to me why someone would buy a Monolith, instead of one of the F-series? What can the Monolith do that the F can't? Is there any specific reason/circumstance a F-line user would want to switch to a Monolith? Thanx everybody.

David A. Goldfarb
31-Aug-2006, 10:12
How bout the new Arca-Swiss 8x10 Misura? Slightly over 8 lbs. Due out soon! Emile

Anywhere we can read about this camera? Specs? Price? Pictures?

Frank Petronio
31-Aug-2006, 16:47
Sure, just go to the Arca website!

That's a bad joke. But to answer Rory's question, I think a Monolith would be great if you were using a heavy digital back simply because it looks like it can handle more weight than an F-metric.

Ralph Barker
31-Aug-2006, 17:08
Anywhere we can read about this camera? Specs? Price? Pictures?

Basic info and pricing is available on the Badger Graphic Arca page (http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=106)

Also, Kerry posted this link in another Arca-related thread: Precision Camera Works (http://www.precisioncameraworks.com/Pages/arca_core.html)

evan clarke
31-Aug-2006, 17:16
"Which brings the next question: What is the shortest lens one can focus on a flat board with the standard bellows and 141 front and rear frames?"

I use a 58mm Super Angulon XL on mine with some movements..EC

David A. Goldfarb
31-Aug-2006, 19:03
Basic info and pricing is available on the Badger Graphic Arca page (http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=106)

Also, Kerry posted this link in another Arca-related thread: Precision Camera Works (http://www.precisioncameraworks.com/Pages/arca_core.html)

Yes, I checked both of those before asking. Nothing about an 8x10" Misura there.

Rory_5244
31-Aug-2006, 19:17
Sure, just go to the Arca website!

That's a bad joke. But to answer Rory's question, I think a Monolith would be great if you were using a heavy digital back simply because it looks like it can handle more weight than an F-metric.

Oh ho. Okay. Thank you, Frank!

fotophil
1-Sep-2006, 09:29
I have both a 4x5 Monolith and F Metric. The Monolith is for car (or studio) based photography - In comparison with the F Metric, the Monolith is like a Grand Piano in size and weight.
The big diference between the two camera is the function carrier. - the bellows,rails and standards are similar. Although the F Metric fits nicely into my F/64 bag, the Monolith Function Carriers are so big that the f/64 bag won't close and even if it did, I couldn't carry the thing very far.
The stability of the Monolith is amazing and the controls are wonderful - it's a great camera so long as you don't have to transport it very far.

Rory_5244
1-Sep-2006, 13:51
Are the tilts geared on a Monolith, fotophil?

Rory_5244
1-Sep-2006, 14:02
oops, sorry, I got the information from the Arca-Swiss pdf. Tilts are geared. How nice.

Struan Gray
1-Sep-2006, 14:32
They took an IMAX camera and two cartridges of film to the summit of Everest. If you really wanted to you could take a monolith anywhere on the planet. It's just a question of logistics.

Kerry L. Thalmann
1-Sep-2006, 16:21
FWIW I have a pre-Monolith (circa 1984) 171mm front format frame on my 7x17 Franken-ARCA. It has geared rise and geared axis tilt. These geared movements are self-arresting. With the longer lenses used on my 7x17, it's sure nice to be able to fine tune these movements with one hand and have them automatically stay in place without having to tighten anything to lock the movements in place. This is especially nice when tweaking the front tilt with one hand while using the other hand to loupe the ground glass. The heaviest lens I've used so far weighs about 3 1/4 lbs. and the self-arresting geared movements hold it firmly in place with no signs of slipping or creeping. This geard front standard adds about 12 oz. to the weight of my 7x17 camera compared to the regular F-Line 171mm front format frame (friction lock rise/fall and no axis tilts), but this is one case where I think the extra weight is worth it. Most ULF shooters I've talked to tend to favor rear movements as it can be difficult to adjust/tighten the front movements on their big cameras - especially when using rather long lenses. If anything, I suspect the movements on the current monolith would be even smoother and sturdier than the older M-Line format frame I'm using.

BTW, if you just want a limited set of geared movements, but don't want the weight of a full Monolith model, you can mix and match parts to get what you want. After I became seduced by the geared front movements on my 7x17 creation, I decided I wanted to duplicate the same features on my 4x5/4x10 ARCA-SWISS. I replaced the original 110mm front format frame with a Metric (self-arresting geared front rise) format framel with the Micrometric Orbix (self-arresting geared axis tilt) option. This gives me the same features on my smaller 4x5/4x10 cameras and only added two ounces to the weight of the camera. I still have the standard front and rear function carriers that I share between all my various ARCA configurations. So, no gerared movements on the rear, and no geared shift on the front like a full F-Line Metric model, but the combination I have suits me well - added convenience where I want it, without an excessive amount of extra weight.

Kerry

Rory_5244
1-Sep-2006, 20:18
Oh, thank you: that was very helpful. If the F-metric standard (rear) frame can fit a Monolith function carrier, I may actually consider replacing my rear F-metric function carrier with one. Of course, the Monolith function carrier looks positively huge compared to the F-metric carrier. Even more notable is the Monolith carrier price of $2048. listed on B&H!! What it all comes down to is whether having to lock down the 8x10 rear standard very tightly (or else it may move when putting in the film holder) - and the vague uncertainty of whether the standard did move after taking the shot - is worth $2000. I'll have to gnaw on it.

Frank Petronio
1-Sep-2006, 21:30
A few months ago a nice 4x5 Monolith sold on eBay for under $1000 (complete). And I think the originator of this thread actually has had a Monolith pass through his hands and knowing Jack, I doubt he paid retail. Like so many exotic LF items, once they hit eBay the masses don't know what to make of them and the timing has to be right for a guy like you to want them during that specific week... so you see odd things like $5000+ Monoliths go for less than $1500 Discoveries on the used market.

But you might only see 2-3 Monoliths on eBay per year. Try searching eBay.de or European shops where Arcas are more common...

Rory_5244
1-Sep-2006, 22:03
Thanks Frank. I'll certainly take your advice.

Frank Petronio
1-Sep-2006, 23:30
Bob Watkins at PCW is also a good guy to cultivate a relationship with, as he gets parts and what not that he trades around, not always listed (Like those bellows frames, duh).